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AVB

There was always, and imagine always will be, a negative view towards AVB simply because he wasn't a player. Unlike Mourinho though, he wasn't good copy with sound bites, so the press could get nothing from him. He gained a reputation of stealing a living as a manager which the press won't ever allow to be buried, regardless of what success he may achieve.

Good luck to him. I have a feeling he will end up in Italy and do well there
 
clownfoot said:
There was always, and imagine always will be, a negative view towards AVB simply because he wasn't a player. Unlike Mourinho though, he wasn't good copy with sound bites, so the press could get nothing from him. He gained a reputation of stealing a living as a manager which the press won't ever allow to be buried, regardless of what success he may achieve.

Good luck to him. I have a feeling he will end up in Italy and do well there
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Italy would suit him, pretentious boring negative ugly football.
 
scaramanga said:
Do you honestly think that just anyone can drop into a team in Russia and immediately succeed?

How would you or I fare? Or YTS Tim, for example?
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I know very little about the Russian League. But who cares? Apart from his ardent supporters who will use his every victory as a vindication of their view that he was this super coach who should never have been sacked. He failed twice in the PL, one of the leagues in world football that matters, where his peers, Martinez, Pochetino and Rodgers are performing well. That will have a bigger effect on his CV than anything he achieves in Russia unless he wins the champions league. If he does I will gladly eat my words.
 
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clownfoot said:
There was always, and imagine always will be, a negative view towards AVB simply because he wasn't a player. Unlike Mourinho though, he wasn't good copy with sound bites, so the press could get nothing from him. He gained a reputation of stealing a living as a manager which the press won't ever allow to be buried, regardless of what success he may achieve.

Good luck to him. I have a feeling he will end up in Italy and do well there
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While I could not give a **** about his career or non career as a professional footballer I find it galling that most managers serve a proper apprentice ship coaching in the lower leagues before they get the big jobs if ever. But here is a guy who was the Opposition Scout for Chelsea (Mourinho himself stated earlier this season he saw nothing in AVB from his time working with him that suggested he would be a great manager), then Manager of British Virgin Islands for a few months and Academia for a few more months before being parachuted into Porto where he was successful, then Chelsea where he failed miserably only to be given another chance at Spurs. Can't help wondering if he got his initial breaks because he comes from an aristocratic well renowned family in Portugal rather than being a talented coach.
 
Robspur12 said:
While I could not give a **** about his career or non career as a professional footballer I find it galling that most managers serve a proper apprentice ship coaching in the lower leagues before they get the big jobs if ever. But here is a guy who was the Opposition Scout for Chelsea (Mourinho himself stated earlier this season he saw nothing in AVB from his time working with him that suggested he would be a great manager), then Manager of British Virgin Islands for a few months and Academia for a few more months before being parachuted into Porto where he was successful, then Chelsea where he failed miserably only to be given another chance at Spurs. Can't help wondering if he got his initial breaks because he comes from an aristocratic well renowned family in Portugal rather than being a talented coach.
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This was said when they had fallen out. When they worked together he was the only person that AVB liaised with, and in his first Chelsea interview, introducing his backroom staff, he singled out AVB for praise. I'll try finding the video of this when I get a chance. It is interesting that you use Mourinho's quote. What is your opinion of him? He was originally hired as a translator for Bobby Robson at Barcelona, but then was given the Benfica job, which is fairly high up in Portugal. I may be wrong, but I seem to recall Robson saying he had no idea that Mourinho would go on to become the coach he has.

I feel AVB will never convince a lot of this board of his abilities, which is fair enough. Just a difference of opinions is all.
 
Robspur12 said:
While I could not give a **** about his career or non career as a professional footballer I find it galling that most managers serve a proper apprentice ship coaching in the lower leagues before they get the big jobs if ever. But here is a guy who was the Opposition Scout for Chelsea (Mourinho himself stated earlier this season he saw nothing in AVB from his time working with him that suggested he would be a great manager), then Manager of British Virgin Islands for a few months and Academia for a few more months before being parachuted into Porto where he was successful, then Chelsea where he failed miserably only to be given another chance at Spurs. Can't help wondering if he got his initial breaks because he comes from an aristocratic well renowned family in Portugal rather than being a talented coach.
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He did a great job at Academica which allowed him to get the Porto job, and got the Academica job because of the coaching ability he promised and ultimately delivered on. He didn't just 'do well' at Porto, he did excellently. He had a bad time at Chelsea but in no way did he fail here.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
He did a great job at Academica which allowed him to get the Porto job, and got the Academica job because of the coaching ability he promised and ultimately delivered on. He didn't just 'do well' at Porto, he did excellently. He had a bad time at Chelsea but in no way did he fail here.
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Yeh there's been a bit of a growing consensus (I think down to the media more than anything) that he was some kind of monumental failure at Spurs. Its as if he took us from CL wannabe's to relegation fodder in a season.

At the end of the day, he wasn't a resounding success, but he wasn't a failure either. We pretty much finished where or where abouts we expected to finish with the squad we had in his first season, in his second season we were 8 points off top when he got sacked. Yes we were boring as hell to watch, we didn't score enough goals and anyone who stretcher our back four made us look like a bunch of amateurs, but you can really call him a failure due to the points we picked up under him.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
Yeh there's been a bit of a growing consensus (I think down to the media more than anything) that he was some kind of monumental failure at Spurs. Its as if he took us from CL wannabe's to relegation fodder in a season.

At the end of the day, he wasn't a resounding success, but he wasn't a failure either. We pretty much finished where or where abouts we expected to finish with the squad we had in his first season, in his second season we were 8 points off top when he got sacked. Yes we were boring as hell to watch, we didn't score enough goals and anyone who stretcher our back four made us look like a bunch of amateurs, but you can really call him a failure due to the points we picked up under him.
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I'm afraid in terms of his target with us which was to finish top 4 he failed; this despite having a 7 point lead over Arsenal and having arguably the 3rd best player in the world at his disposal. Am I being harsh absolutely not. He himself told us last season what his target was. So after missing out Levy rightly gave him the opporTunity to try again this season. So should he have had longer because he was after all trying to settle in new player? Well it did not look like things were going to get better on the pitch and his spat with Ade would have meant persisting with Soldado up front that would have ultimately led to us getting further and further from our target. He also imploded off the pitch. Even his most loyal supporters cannot call his time at Spurs a success and the fact he was sacked 18 months into a 3 year contract suggests failure.
 
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BrainOfLevy said:
He did a great job at Academica which allowed him to get the Porto job, and got the Academica job because of the coaching ability he promised and ultimately delivered on. He didn't just 'do well' at Porto, he did excellently. He had a bad time at Chelsea but in no way did he fail here.
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That depends on what you define as "great" a 36 % win rate and losing almost as many games as winning. This is what narks me about the bloke there is a lot of hyperbole surrounding him on the basis of that great season at Porto. But if he is to be judged by that how does one judge Di Matteo who won both the Champs League and FA Cup? Should he be our next manager?
 
Robspur12 said:
That depends on what you define as "great" a 36 % win rate and losing almost as many games as winning. This is what narks me about the bloke there is a lot of hyperbole surrounding him on the basis of that great season at Porto. But if he is to be judged by that how does one judge Di Matteo who won both the Champs League and FA Cup? Should he be our next manager?
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Taking over a team in the relegation zone and getting them clear of it, playing attractive football. I'd say that qualifies as a very good job. Chelsea wasn't Di Matteo's first job. He did okay with what was basically Paul Ince's MK Dons side for one season, then went to West Brom where he ended up getting sacked. His 18 months there should provide more than enough reasons to make him an unsuitable candidate.
 
Jordinho said:
Taking over a team in the relegation zone and getting them clear of it, playing attractive football. I'd say that qualifies as a very good job. Chelsea wasn't Di Matteo's first job. He did okay with what was basically Paul Ince's MK Dons side for one season, then went to West Brom where he ended up getting sacked. His 18 months there should provide more than enough reasons to make him an unsuitable candidate.
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This is the sort of stuff that irritates me about AVB and his supporters. Di Matteo had a 48% win rate at Mk Dons. At WBA he took a recently relegated side and got them promoted to the PL at the 1st time of asking. Even at WBA he had a pretty decent win rate. His CV is better than AVB's but I don't see many posters putting him forward in the "next spurs manager" thread.
 
Robspur12 said:
Not a given that a relegated squad will go up automatically just look at QPR . He did pretty well in the PL and was unfairly sacked IMO.
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I completely agree, he was

I don't think that that is an equal to winning the Portugese league and winning the UEFA Cup though
 
Robspur12 said:
How about winning the Champs league and FA cup?
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yes very impressive, but at that point he wasn't a viable target for us, it wasn't obvious Chelsea would have sacked him regardless and we had probably already started negotiating with AVB
 
Robspur12 said:
I'm afraid in terms of his target with us which was to finish top 4 he failed; this despite having a 7 point lead over Arsenal and having arguably the 3rd best player in the world at his disposal. Am I being harsh absolutely not. He himself told us last season what his target was. So after missing out Levy rightly gave him the opporTunity to try again this season. So should he have had longer because he was after all trying to settle in new player? Well it did not look like things were going to get better on the pitch and his spat with Ade would have meant persisting with Soldado up front that would have ultimately led to us getting further and further from our target. He also imploded off the pitch. Even his most loyal supporters cannot call his time at Spurs a success and the fact he was sacked 18 months into a 3 year contract suggests failure.
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I agree, I wasn't saying he was a success (although I'm not one of his most loyal supporters), just that he wasn't a monumental failure (as he's made out by some people to be) either.

In the grand scheme of things, he was a distinctly average manager. I do share your frustration about those who talk about him as if he will go on to become the next AF.
 
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Robspur12 said:
I know very little about the Russian League. But who cares? Apart from his ardent supporters who will use his every victory as a vindication of their view that he was this super coach who should never have been sacked. He failed twice in the PL, one of the leagues in world football that matters, where his peers, Martinez, Pochetino and Rodgers are performing well. That will have a bigger effect on his CV than anything he achieves in Russia unless he wins the champions league. If he does I will gladly eat my words.
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In which case, how qualified do you feel to dismiss his victories over there. If more than "very little", why?
 
Robspur12 said:
That depends on what you define as "great" a 36 % win rate and losing almost as many games as winning. This is what narks me about the bloke there is a lot of hyperbole surrounding him on the basis of that great season at Porto. But if he is to be judged by that how does one judge Di Matteo who won both the Champs League and FA Cup? Should he be our next manager?
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Do you know what kind of club Academica are and what kind of situation they were in?
 
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