Dusan Vlahovic

[Finney Is Back]

This is not an argument against signing a new striker.

We know Lucas and Kane can be very effective receiving the ball deeper or with their backs to goal. We know Son is less effective there, but great if we can release him with space to attack.

A new striker/forward would have to be really good to do better than them with the service they got yesterday.

Chelsea pressed very well. We had a back 3 with one ball playing CB, and even he's not exactly world class at that aspect of the game. Two wing backs that won't progress the ball through taking players on. A mixed bag of ability on the ball in central midfield.

Two, maybe three players out of our deepest 7 good enough at building up from the back through pressure. Plus a goalie not great with the ball at his feet.

No striker changes that unless it's a change to just playing long balls like Burnley. That's not the way.

You are bang on here…. Our forwards look tired but the ball doesn’t come through midfield or progress through the wingbacks. The Worlds best front 3 couldn’t do much playing ahead of what ours had to play in front of yesterday.

in midfield we clearly need a proper CM (perhaps even two) who are physical enough, have clever movement, great control, good passing, can play with both feet and play with their head up. At the back we can only afford one of the 3 CBs to not be good on the ball (and perhaps actually none of them). At wing back we need a player each side who can get beyond his opponent with the ball.

One of the reasons I keep banging on about Corona from Porto is that he specialises in beating his opponent in a one on one. We often get the ball to Royale who is one on one with his opponent, a player like Corona would exploit that.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We know, we've seen repeatedly, that if those balls up to Kane or Lucas are of the required quality they can and will make very useful things happen. Them and Son offer great threat in behind is they get the right passes.

Chelsea had the ability to play those longer, non hoofing forward passes with enough accuracy.

We didn't press as much or as well as they did so it was easier. To do that against teams that press well you need the ability to create enough space to play those passes through good buildup play from the back. And the quality to play the actual pass.

We didn't have the required quality to do that yesterday. Thus, hoofing long balls would be the result of signing/playing another target man if the deeper players are the same.

We still need another striker/forward. But we need other things too, particularly when we're without several starters deeper.

The lack of passing in the defence is what cost is the first goal. That cannot be argued with
But a functional midfield can work if the players around it move and can receive the ball
We know for example Sanchez hates the ball. The guys stepped up massively but you would never want him as a possession based player. Tanganga yesterday was awful, truly awful with the ball which was worrying
Davies was fine but again had no options as we had no left side in front of him
The front 3 didn’t move until the second half. They were waiting for a ball to feet and walked around like zombies. That gives you nothing to aim at other than them and they get caught…
And royal had his worse game for us IMO. Some of the balls he gave away were basic and Childs play. So we had no one wide who could pass…
And then Hojdjberg… the Viking… wow
It was an awful game from him. As bad as I’ve seen a midfielder play I think. He let the ball go under his feet, past his feet, he kicked it at our own players. He played like he had a hangover

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The first thing you need are CBS and CMs who are comfortable on the ball…. We had neither last night. (At least) 4 of our 5 players at CB and CM are much better players when we are out of possession than in possession, that’s why we are a dream to play against for a well coached, high pressing team.

Problem number 1 to solve is at least one CM who is good both with and without the ball.

We brought tanguy in who can pass…. But he still had very little to pass to

I just cannot work out though why he stuck with a hojdberg right now in that midfield and doesn’t give winks and skipp a chance together. Pierre is clogging up the midfield with us currently poor play

 

[Finney Is Back]

The lack of passing in the defence is what cost is the first goal. That cannot be argued with
But a functional midfield can work if the players around it move and can receive the ball
We know for example Sanchez hates the ball. The guys stepped up massively but you would never want him as a possession based player. Tanganga yesterday was awful, truly awful with the ball which was worrying
Davies was fine but again had no options as we had no left side in front of him
The front 3 didn’t move until the second half. They were waiting for a ball to feet and walked around like zombies. That gives you nothing to aim at other than them and they get caught…
And royal had his worse game for us IMO. Some of the balls he gave away were basic and Childs play. So we had no one wide who could pass…
And then Hojdjberg… the Viking… wow
It was an awful game from him. As bad as I’ve seen a midfielder play I think. He let the ball go under his feet, past his feet, he kicked it at our own players. He played like he had a hangover

It all stems from having two CMs who don’t make space to receive the ball and then can’t do much when they are on the ball. Were you at the game last night? Seeing the movement, control and passing of Jorginho in particular compared to that of our two was eye opening.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We brought tanguy in who can pass…. But he still had very little to pass to

I just cannot work out though why he stuck with a hojdberg right now in that midfield and doesn’t give winks and skipp a chance together. Pierre is clogging up the midfield with us currently poor play

Tanguay was playing just behind the forwards…. We could barely get him the ball because our 2 CMs can’t progress possession.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It all stems from having two CMs who don’t make space to receive the ball and then can’t do much when they are on the ball. Were you at the game last night? Seeing the movement, control and passing of Jorginho in particular compared to that of our two was eye opening.

Nah I went the last semi we lost there
Jorginho got the ball but he had players who wanted the ball off him
Skipp got the ball yesterday and his only option was Hojdjerg or Sanchez..
And add in the wings backs yesterday who were atrocious it was a lost there and then

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Tanguay was playing just behind the forwards…. We could barely get him the ball because our 2 CMs can’t progress possession.

He had plenty of ball
We actually had some pressure but when he looked up he had Kane behind him, moura staying wide right to look after royal and son with his back to the goal..it was all wrong
Kane actually got deeper and looked better because he was eyeing more ball but then it meant we had no one playing up top

 

[braineclipse]

It all stems from having two CMs who don’t make space to receive the ball and then can’t do much when they are on the ball. Were you at the game last night? Seeing the movement, control and passing of Jorginho in particular compared to that of our two was eye opening.

Midfield is part of the problem, yes, but our central midfielders would be a lot closer to fine if the back three and wing backs were better on the ball.

When opponents puts as high as they do the buildup starts with the defenders and goalkeeper. Even if we have the ball in midfield it will often end up with them.

The midfielders are just as reliant on the right passes coming to them as the forwards are, though it's obviously usually even tighter for the forwards.

We would probably need close to world class deep playmakers/metronomes in both midfield roles to make up for the shortcomings elsewhere (that's obviously a guess). That's not happening, but competent ball playing centre backs and wing backs should be attainable, we even have some in the squad, though unfortunately very few on the actual pitch yesterday.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Nah I went the last semi we lost there
Jorginho got the ball but he had players who wanted the ball off him
Skipp got the ball yesterday and his only option was Hojdjerg or Sanchez..
And add in the wings backs yesterday who were atrocious it was a lost there and then

A few things dictated this though....

There was a huge difference in the starting positions for our team compared to Chelsea. Chelsea were playing on the front foot and pressing us high, whereas we were not engaging Chelsea until they got well into our half of the pitch. Our forwards were actually showing for the ball (well Kane and Moura were anyway) but they were being tracked man for man by Chelsea so generally having to receive a pass from a fair distance with a man directly behind them. Retaining possession that way is very hard and making passes to central areas to players heavily marked is also dangerous in terms of the transition from the (likely) turnover. The first problem is that our two central midfielders do not offer any clever movement, the second problem is that when they get the ball they do not have good enough touch or passing ability to progress the ball forwards. This is compounded by our centre backs also not being good passers of the ball. So we end up with situations where our central midfielders are typically getting on the ball really close to our central defenders and having to play everything safe.

The crazy thing is that we could actually fix our team and have one that could match up to Chelsea pretty well by doing three pre-contract bosman deals....

Brozovic and Kessie as our midfield two would show us exactly what we are missing right now. Brozovic has all the work rate and tenacity of Skipp but can actually get on the ball and dictate play. Kessie has the physicality of Hojbjerg but can also receive it under pressure (something that Hojbjerg is terrible at) as well as find space, carry the ball and pass it well. Having those two as our central pair would give us a balance that means we are not soft centred but can also actually play through a press and progress the football. Combine them with Corona on the right and we'd have a wing back who excels on the ball when one on one and has a great delivery with either foot. With these sorts of players only the very best teams would even think about going full press against us and if they dared to then we would absolutely have moments where we played through it and creating big chances.

It probably means adding upwards of £30m to the wage bill but if there is one club in the PL who can afford to up its wage to turnover ratio it is us. Over to you Mr Levy....

 

[Finney Is Back]

He had plenty of ball
We actually had some pressure but when he looked up he had Kane behind him, moura staying wide right to look after royal and son with his back to the goal..it was all wrong
Kane actually got deeper and looked better because he was eyeing more ball but then it meant we had no one playing up top

I think in many ways Conte would be better switching Kane and Son so that Harry gets on the ball more (albeit in deeper positions) and Son plays right on the line of the last defender. For all Son's attributes he actually doesn't have particularly brilliant control so probably better to get Harry on the ball who has good physicality as well as excellent control and passing with both feet and he can then try to get Son in behind (which needs Son higher up the pitch and free'd from defensive duties).

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think in many ways Conte would be better switching Kane and Son so that Harry gets on the ball more (albeit in deeper positions) and Son plays right on the line of the last defender. For all Son's attributes he actually doesn't have particularly brilliant control so probably better to get Harry on the ball who has good physicality as well as excellent control and passing with both feet and he can then try to get Son in behind (which needs Son higher up the pitch and free'd from defensive duties).

We need to rest son
But we don’t have anyone else

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

We need to sign in this window romagnoli, lamptey, brozovic, kessie and vlahovic.

£45m should get lamptey and florence are getting piatek now, so vlahovic up for grabs for £60m.

The others are frees in the summer, so a combined £30m needed to secure them now.

Total £135m just hurry up and get on with it ffs.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Midfield is part of the problem, yes, but our central midfielders would be a lot closer to fine if the back three and wing backs were better on the ball.

When opponents puts as high as they do the buildup starts with the defenders and goalkeeper. Even if we have the ball in midfield it will often end up with them.

The midfielders are just as reliant on the right passes coming to them as the forwards are, though it's obviously usually even tighter for the forwards.

We would probably need close to world class deep playmakers/metronomes in both midfield roles to make up for the shortcomings elsewhere (that's obviously a guess). That's not happening, but competent ball playing centre backs and wing backs should be attainable, we even have some in the squad, though unfortunately very few on the actual pitch yesterday.

In Romero and Davies I think we have 2 good ball playing defenders. Dier is also a player that can make good long passes, though he is particularly poor on the ball when pressed. However Dier playing as the central of the three defenders means that shouldn't really be exposed (as simple balls back to keeper or left/right should usually be on). I'd love us to be better at the back but improving the centre of our midfield is absolutely essential if we want to be be able to take on the top teams.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We need to sign in this window romagnoli, lamptey, brozovic, kessie and vlahovic.

£45m should get lamptey and florence are getting piatek now, so vlahovic up for grabs for £60m.

The others are frees in the summer, so a combined £30m needed to secure them now.

Total £135m just hurry up and get on with it ffs.

Corona on a bosman saves the £45m for Lamptey (and Corona is the better player right now as well).

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Corona on a bosman saves the £45m for Lamptey (and Corona is the better player right now as well).

Have we been linked with Corona or is it just a wishlist?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

In Romero and Davies I think we have 2 good ball playing defenders. Dier is also a player that can make good long passes, though he is particularly poor on the ball when pressed. However Dier playing as the central of the three defenders means that shouldn't really be exposed (as simple balls back to keeper or left/right should usually be on). I'd love us to be better at the back but improving the centre of our midfield is absolutely essential if we want to be be able to take on the top teams.

What happens if we sort the midfield hit lose kane and son to injury?

 

[Finney Is Back]

What happens if we sort the midfield hit lose kane and son to injury?

I'm not saying we don't need another striker.... We've needed one of those for years. Just that at present, even when all are fit we can't compete with the best teams because we are comparatively incredibly weak in the centre of midfield.

I guess what we have here is a midfield with loads of options but no real good players and a strikeforce with no alternative options but the first choice players being really good ones.

As you know, I'd love us to sign Vlahovic, I think I was one of the first (if not the first) on here to bang on about wanting us to sign him. I'm just worried that we won't have a particularly big transfer budget and spending £60m plus on a striker means we're stuck with a weak midfield. In many ways that is why I am so pro us getting some of these bosman transfers in the likes of Kessie, Brozovic and Corona.... Yes the wage bill will expand by a large amount but at least it should conserve transfer fee cashflow to spend on another option up front.

If we can't/won't grow the wage bill for some of the freebies then I suspect we'll have to cut our cloth accordingly in terms of how much we can spend on players seeing as we need at least 5 to come into the squad IMO (2xCM, CB, RWB, CF) having a creative midfielder on top of that would also be a real bonus but probably isn't essential for Conte's system. If the transfer/wage budget is tight then it would make sense to try to bring in a player to provide cover across the forward positions such as Julian Alvarez from River Plate who will cost under £20m or perhaps Charles De Ketelaere who would probably cost between £20m and £30m. I love us to really go for it with some statement signings but unfortunately just do not see our owners operating that way.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I'm not saying we don't need another striker.... We've needed one of those for years. Just that at present, even when all are fit we can't compete with the best teams because we are comparatively incredibly weak in the centre of midfield.

I guess what we have here is a midfield with loads of options but no real good players and a strikeforce with no alternative options but the first choice players being really good ones.

As you know, I'd love us to sign Vlahovic, I think I was one of the first (if not the first) on here to bang on about wanting us to sign him. I'm just worried that we won't have a particularly big transfer budget and spending £60m plus on a striker means we're stuck with a weak midfield. In many ways that is why I am so pro us getting some of these bosman transfers in the likes of Kessie, Brozovic and Corona.... Yes the wage bill will expand by a large amount but at least it should conserve transfer fee cashflow to spend on another option up front.

If we can't/won't grow the wage bill for some of the freebies then I suspect we'll have to cut our cloth accordingly in terms of how much we can spend on players seeing as we need at least 5 to come into the squad IMO (2xCM, CB, RWB, CF) having a creative midfielder on top of that would also be a real bonus but probably isn't essential for Conte's system. If the transfer/wage budget is tight then it would make sense to try to bring in a player to provide cover across the forward positions such as Julian Alvarez from River Plate who will cost under £20m or perhaps Charles De Ketelaere who would probably cost between £20m and £30m. I love us to really go for it with some statement signings but unfortunately just do not see our owners operating that way.

CM has been been a problem since Poch. We've lacked players like Modric and Dembele. But right now, a forward is needed more urgently imo. We are lacking firepower. We have Kane, Son and Moura. Gil, Bergwijn are not ready to play at the moment. Then you look at our line ups - 3 players known for attacking, and 2 have to play every game for lack of alternatives.

It is okay to have CMs who are defense first, provided we have enough firepower elsewhere. But we don't. So a forward outranks a CM for me. Conte can even use Ndombele, Alli and Winks in midfield if need be. The squad balance is not right between defensive and attack. So I think the club understands this and they want to bolster our attack if they can - never easy in Jan.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm not saying we don't need another striker.... We've needed one of those for years. Just that at present, even when all are fit we can't compete with the best teams because we are comparatively incredibly weak in the centre of midfield.

I guess what we have here is a midfield with loads of options but no real good players and a strikeforce with no alternative options but the first choice players being really good ones.

As you know, I'd love us to sign Vlahovic, I think I was one of the first (if not the first) on here to bang on about wanting us to sign him. I'm just worried that we won't have a particularly big transfer budget and spending £60m plus on a striker means we're stuck with a weak midfield. In many ways that is why I am so pro us getting some of these bosman transfers in the likes of Kessie, Brozovic and Corona.... Yes the wage bill will expand by a large amount but at least it should conserve transfer fee cashflow to spend on another option up front.

If we can't/won't grow the wage bill for some of the freebies then I suspect we'll have to cut our cloth accordingly in terms of how much we can spend on players seeing as we need at least 5 to come into the squad IMO (2xCM, CB, RWB, CF) having a creative midfielder on top of that would also be a real bonus but probably isn't essential for Conte's system. If the transfer/wage budget is tight then it would make sense to try to bring in a player to provide cover across the forward positions such as Julian Alvarez from River Plate who will cost under £20m or perhaps Charles De Ketelaere who would probably cost between £20m and £30m. I love us to really go for it with some statement signings but unfortunately just do not see our owners operating that way.

I’d genuinely take anyone right now as a forward if there relatively capable and moderately experienced it’s an improvement

 

[Bedfordspurs]

CM has been been a problem since Poch. We've lacked players like Modric and Dembele. But right now, a forward is needed more urgently imo. We are lacking firepower. We have Kane, Son and Moura. Gil, Bergwijn are not ready to play at the moment. Then you look at our line ups - 3 players known for attacking, and 2 have to play every game for lack of alternatives.

It is okay to have CMs who are defense first, provided we have enough firepower elsewhere. But we don't. So a forward outranks a CM for me. Conte can even use Ndombele, Alli and Winks in midfield if need be. The squad balance is not right between defensive and attack. So I think the club understands this and they want to bolster our attack if they can - never easy in Jan.

Chelsea’s top scorer is a penalty taker (well it was until Recently)
Finney nailed his comments above about our midfield not being top drawer but having a lot of options and the forwards being the opposite
We’re one injury away from the season ending early now and it’s with either Kane or son
We haven’t had any depth or alternatives up front since Redknapp really
That’s grim for a club that’s played CL