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Dele Alli

My understanding of the modern 433 is the emphasis on the middle 3 is more on hard work and closing the space the front 3 leave behind - think of Liverpools middle 3, not exactly bursting with creativity

Exactly, which actually makes Dele a bigger asset!
 
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But mate...he is not playing as an orthodox CM in a pair. If he was part of a 4 next To PEH or Skipp that'd be different, but he clearly is not operating like that and neither are we.
He has progressed his game to the point where he can be effective in a 3 playing deeper whereas previously he was simply a 10.

Disagree re:rose tinted glasses. It is all about where he is actually playing/his tasks versus the job people think he should be doing and the player he was. Nobody has ever looked to Dele to Eriksen, not ever. And everyone I know who has watched the first two games is clear that we will need a passer/retainer/carrier against most teams. But if if is in a 3 it will be to replace one of Skippy or PEH.

Think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one Steff. In a midfield 3, I don’t think you can afford to have a player not getting on the ball and influencing the play. Time will tell I guess because I’d absolutely love Dele to be successful here.
 
In the very best games of football Dele will be our best player.

In the general morass of a premier league season Kane is our best player.

We cannot and should not be aiming for the former but if Spurs can’t find a place for Dele then I don’t want anything to do with football.

It’s why I support Spurs. In those rare moments where a game breaks out we are favourites because we have talent like him.
 
A touch of perspective, people maybe saying that Dele needs to improve this, that and the other, but we have had to live week in, week out with Winks and Sissoko playing that role for a few years now.

I’m not saying that some people are never happy, because it might be a case of they are happy but just don’t realise it
 
A touch of perspective, people maybe saying that Dele needs to improve this, that and the other, but we have had to live week in, week out with Winks and Sissoko playing that role for a few years now.

I’m not saying that some people are never happy, because it might be a case of they are happy but just don’t realise it

Christ, that’s sobered me right up. Okay, Dele for CM all day long.

To think that pair started the CL final. Christ almighty. Fair enough Winks was our best player on the night but the biggest game in our history and we start with Winks and Sissoko…
 
A touch of perspective, people maybe saying that Dele needs to improve this, that and the other, but we have had to live week in, week out with Winks and Sissoko playing that role for a few years now.

I’m not saying that some people are never happy, because it might be a case of they are happy but just don’t realise it
Winks and Sissoko were a million miles away from good enough, but I want the best. We shouldn't be happy to settle for adequate or that will do. It's one of the reasons we don't win things because we haven't had the necessary extra bit of guile to pull us through.

That's not aimed specifically at Dele, moreso the midfield setup as we've seen so far. We've struggled to have stretches of real control, we need to be able to keep the ball a bit better to ease the pressure.
 
Think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one Steff. In a midfield 3, I don’t think you can afford to have a player not getting on the ball and influencing the play. Time will tell I guess because I’d absolutely love Dele to be successful here.

Indeed, we agree to disagree, but I do have to say he has been influencing play these last two games, just not in an Eriksen/Pirlo way…
 
Winks and Sissoko were a million miles away from good enough, but I want the best. We shouldn't be happy to settle for adequate or that will do. It's one of the reasons we don't win things because we haven't had the necessary extra bit of guile to pull us through.

That's not aimed specifically at Dele, moreso the midfield setup as we've seen so far. We've struggled to have stretches of real control, we need to be able to keep the ball a bit better to ease the pressure.


Again, I think we have to view everything in context. NES does not know what his final squad for the season is until Sept 1st. He has made it very clear players not committed will not feature. He has three players at least who are in limbo until then, which influences who comes in. I think he is using his tool kit very well TBH. I don’t think anyone wants Skippy and Hojberg in the same side week after week (unless you play 4-2-3-1 which does not look likely right now)…
 
But mate...he is not playing as an orthodox CM in a pair. If he was part of a 4 next To PEH or Skipp that'd be different, but he clearly is not operating like that and neither are we.
He has progressed his game to the point where he can be effective in a 3 playing deeper whereas previously he was simply a 10.

Disagree re:rose tinted glasses. It is all about where he is actually playing/his tasks versus the job people think he should be doing and the player he was. Nobody has ever looked to Dele to Eriksen, not ever. And everyone I know who has watched the first two games is clear that we will need a passer/retainer/carrier against most teams. But if if is in a 3 it will be to replace one of Skippy or PEH.
I think that conclusion is a bit premature. It could also be Alli that loses out to another player.

Right now the signs are positive, if he keeps doing as well defensively, manages to find and time those forward runs and keeps high risk moves in deeper positions limited to the right situations he will make a very strong case for keeping his place. Let's not forget that Skipp is seemingly very highly rated and only 20, and PEH was close to a revelation in midfield last season and offers quite a bit of versatility.
 
Indeed, we agree to disagree, but I do have to say he has been influencing play these last two games, just not in an Eriksen/Pirlo way…
Agreed, it's not like he's not getting on the ball at all or is doing nothing aside from when he gets into the final third/box.

He's a smart player, still getting used to this relatively new role. He has the technical ability to do quite a bit more on the ball in that role imo. I think and hope there's more to come from him.

His role and impact will at least in theory also be rather different when we dominate possession. Those phases of play could allow him to get further forward more often, into the areas where we know an in form Dele can cause opponents a lot of problems that are really difficult to deal with.

I may be getting ahead of myself, but these two opening games were in some ways the hardest test for Dele when it comes to this role in the short term. When we control games his role could/should be more familiar.

If he can also become a more valuable player in phases of play where we get pressed high he would again become a potential superstar imo. Longer term that will be the biggest test. But it's one he could "fail" and still be a supremely useful player for us in that role, but then it depends more on what his team mates can offer in those phases.
 
When is the last time he had a run of games in the one position before being shifted to fill in somewhere else?
Think half that problem is where do we fit him in ? He’s a 10 in my eyes but we are not really playing that way. He’s not a Cm.

Dele is best suited playing off the striker.

Can’t knock his work rate and has done some good stuff in defence but he’s not offering enough on the ball. Think if we can get Tanguy or Lo Celso playing he sits on the bench in my eyes.
 
Think half that problem is where do we fit him in ? He’s a 10 in my eyes but we are not really playing that way. He’s not a Cm.

Dele is best suited playing off the striker.

Can’t knock his work rate and has done some good stuff in defence but he’s not offering enough on the ball. Think if we can get Tanguy or Lo Celso playing he sits on the bench in my eyes.
I think his best position is starting on the left wing and moving into the box. Problem is that Son's best position is also on the left.
 
Think half that problem is where do we fit him in ? He’s a 10 in my eyes but we are not really playing that way. He’s not a Cm.

Dele is best suited playing off the striker.

Can’t knock his work rate and has done some good stuff in defence but he’s not offering enough on the ball. Think if we can get Tanguy or Lo Celso playing he sits on the bench in my eyes.


Tend to agree with this, i give him credit for coming back this season and working hard after his swanning about for the previous season but i fail to see just where he fits and how much he adds overall to our game at the moment.
 
For all the nostalgia for the 2016/7 Dele, the reality is that the current version is nowhere close to that beast, and he is one of the main reasons why our midfield has been void of creativity this season.

Yes he is putting in a shift but then so did Sissoko, and we were glad when he moved on. Indeed I would almost (almost) prefer Sissoko than Dele at this moment in time, if the available slot is central midfield rather than behind the striker.
 
Think half that problem is where do we fit him in ? He’s a 10 in my eyes but we are not really playing that way. He’s not a Cm.

Dele is best suited playing off the striker.

Can’t knock his work rate and has done some good stuff in defence but he’s not offering enough on the ball. Think if we can get Tanguy or Lo Celso playing he sits on the bench in my eyes.
I think Skipp would make way before Dele as Dele seems to be doing a better job in the 3 man midfield than Skipp is.
 
I think Skipp would make way before Dele as Dele seems to be doing a better job in the 3 man midfield than Skipp is.
Dele is doing well defensively in the 3
His passing though is still rubbish
But his running when playing in the 3 has been exceptional
It comes down to what balance we want there now
Dele is 100% the B2B player, but could work with another in front of one DM
 
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