Next Manager?

[Dicko]

The more I read, the more I like the tactics of Fonseca. Sounds quite exciting and more entertaining than any of the other candidates. Obviously there's still the big caveat that we need a clear out and a bucket load of better defenders but still...

Anyway, I think I will stop researching him now as we are due some new links to the next guy soon.

 

[MKSpur]

No i think levy has just decided that the team/club just needs a total overhaul. Brings in a guy who won 9 league titles with juve to oversee it.

Even if he did oversee it, we have little in common with Juve from a budget / competitor position?

It sounds like he was part of their successful team, but when the overall head of it left, he goes and wins the league with his new team and Juve fail. I just wonder what it was about this sequence of events that led us to him rather than a DoF who had demonstrated working with more budget constraints and discovering players for development rather than ready made successful ones who would likely be guaranteed trophies and top wages with their peers in the division upon signing.

 

[Gazza]

Even if he did oversee it, we have little in common with Juve from a budget / competitor position?

It sounds like he was part of their successful team, but when the overall head of it left, he goes and wins the league with his new team and Juve fail. I just wonder what it was about this sequence of events that led us to him rather than a DoF who had demonstrated working with more budget constraints and discovering players for development rather than ready made successful ones who would likely be guaranteed trophies and top wages with their peers in the division upon signing.

Also depends on how much control he actually has in his role compared to his influence at Juve. We operate completely differently historically, lets see i guess.

 

[MKSpur]

Not really. If it goes wrong he simply sacks the coach and appoints somebody new. The TV and gate money will continue to roll in, and he'll still be able to build the hotel at the stadium.

I think in the past when things didn’t work out there was general support for his appointments, even now there is healthy debate about the reasons for hiring Mourinho, even AVB. I guess what I’m saying is if we’d got Conte or ETH there would have been a reasonable proportion of fans who would have considered these the outstanding candidate even if it didn’t equate with a successful appointment. In the case of Fonseca and the DoF I don’t think they featured on anyone’s wishlist, so it will be seen as a bigger mis step than the Mourinho appointment at a time when we are at a relatively sensitive position with supporters performance wise.

 

[Lilbaz]

Even if he did oversee it, we have little in common with Juve from a budget / competitor position?

It sounds like he was part of their successful team, but when the overall head of it left, he goes and wins the league with his new team and Juve fail. I just wonder what it was about this sequence of events that led us to him rather than a DoF who had demonstrated working with more budget constraints and discovering players for development rather than ready made successful ones who would likely be guaranteed trophies and top wages with their peers in the division upon signing.

He has contacts all over europe. He'll have a budget and will go for players that fit in that budget. He obviously has an eye for a player because that's what he's been doing for 17 years.
I don't know if he'll be good or not. But it's not like he is coming from the youth team. He has experience.

 

[MKSpur]

Looking at his record again, its pretty decent: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/paulo-fonseca/leistungsdatenLigenNational/trainer/19944

In Portugal:

- 12/13 took a minnow team to 3rd. Excellent
- 13/14 had Porto in 3rd when sacked with > 2 points per game. 3rd is probably as low as they should be in their league, so not great but 1st season there
- 14/15 back to minnows and finished 1 point off 6th. Very good again
- 15/16: took Braga to 4th...in a league with Benfica, Sporting Lisbon and Porto so about as far as could realistic be expected

....so all that above bit looks very good then to Ukraine

16/17 to 18/19: cleaned up...obviously with the dominant team

then on to Italy:

19/20: finished 5th in his first season - pretty decent; I cant comment on level of spend in advance of that vs other teams, but 5th is probably par or slightly better with their status in Italy?
20/21: 7th, which is probably marginally sub-par, again with the transfer caveat

In Europe, he obviously made the EL semis with Roma and a couple QFs with Porto and Braga and some last 16s with Shaktar (CL) and Roma (EL)


So I think criticism of his record is probably a little harsh. I think a bigger concern that people could have is lack of familiarity with the PL. Personally I'd have probably gone for Potter rather than him, but as I've said many times, the DoF performance is far more important in my eyes over the next 12-24 months as without a couple decent summer windows, the coach is less relevant

Think he won a cup with Braga too but I saw that Roma were finishing in the CL places, then dropped out and he couldn’t arrest the slide. So the same situation as we have now!
Edit although his points total for 5th was the same as a year they came 2nd, the new AVB

 

[MKSpur]

He has contacts all over europe. He'll have a budget and will go for players that fit in that budget. He obviously has an eye for a player because that's what he's been doing for 17 years.
I don't know if he'll be good or not. But it's not like he is coming from the youth team. He has experience.

No dispute over on his experience but just challenging whether it’s relevant to what we need given the difference in Juve’s position and an observation that the successful tenures he has had have been as a subordinate to Moratta. It also seems a little like the situation ended similarly to the one where Steve Kean took over from Allardyce at Blackburn!


It’s good to be optimistic though and hopefully we can see some ins and outs done relatively early which will help confidence in the difference he will make. Without doubt this has been an area for concern since Poch’s time and needed to be addressed.


It’s just a little odd how it worked out, maybe we asked Conte who he’d recommend and stuck with it!

 

[Raziel]

Shows his tactics vs. City, including them running it in practice.

Be interesting for those who want us to be able to deal with a press.

 

[Gutter Boy]

My favourite thing I've found by Danny Rose-ing Fonseca is that he once managed to make 6 substitutes during a game (so would have forfeited the game if they hadn't lost anyway)

https://football-italia.net/fonseca-and-roma-will-discuss-subs-error/

 

[DTA]

As long as it's not aimed at the coach or players that's fine.

It doesn't work like that though does it? If the fans are booing, the players are not going to say :
"It's OK lads, that's being aimed at Mr Levy not us, so keep you heads up we are going in the right direction"

It will seep through the club.

 

[Lilbaz]

It doesn't work like that though does it? If the fans are booing, the players are not going to say :
"It's OK lads, that's being aimed at Mr Levy not us, so keep you heads up we are going in the right direction"

It will seep through the club.

True.

 

[Kandi1977]

This sums up most Spurs fans now:
"I don't know anything about him, but he's not what we need!"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1402751698507030530

 

[DTA]

This sums up most Spurs fans now:
"I don't know anything about him, but he's not what we need!"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1402751698507030530

In fairness, I think if he had a more impressive managerial record without the very big question marks with clubs of similar stature to us (Porto and Roma). The fact that most don't know him wouldn't be a big issue.

Most won't know who Julen Lopetegui is either but if you look at his record an arguement could be made that he should be 1st choice. I just don't think you can make the same arguement for this guy, it looks from the outside as the wrong appointment, and obviously so. So if he does indeed flop then it's going to get really toxic... which could lead to a serious decline.

Stuff like this doesn't instill to much confidence:

"Following the heavy defeat to Lazio in the Derby della Capitale and this Coppa Italia exit, is Fonseca under pressure?

“I’ve been up for debate since the first day I arrived. We are in the position we want in Serie A, I trust the team and every week I don’t win, I get asked these questions. I just have to keep doing my work.""

Considering he went on to finish 7th

 

[Raziel]

In fairness, I think if he had a more impressive managerial record without the very big question marks with clubs of similar stature to us (Porto and Roma). The fact that most don't know him wouldn't be a big issue.

Most won't know who Julen Lopetegui is either but if you look at his record an arguement could be made that he should be 1st choice. I just don't think you can make the same arguement for this guy, it looks from the outside as the wrong appointment, and obviously so. So if he does indeed flop then it's going to get really toxic... which could lead to a serious decline.

Stuff like this doesn't instill to much confidence:

"Following the heavy defeat to Lazio in the Derby della Capitale and this Coppa Italia exit, is Fonseca under pressure?

“I’ve been up for debate since the first day I arrived. We are in the position we want in Serie A, I trust the team and every week I don’t win, I get asked these questions. I just have to keep doing my work.""

Considering he went on to finish 7th

Come on mate, here's how this is going

- He doesn't have an impressive record
- Well, actually he's won 9 trophies, played in CL & Europa, beat City (with real tactics, see video above) & Ajax
- Oh' well those trophies don't count and he lost to United (the side that finished 2nd in PL and made finals of Europa)

Please explain how a young manager
- Who plays attacking football
- Who's managed in multiple leagues
- Who has works with young players
- Who has experience in Europa & CL
- Who is likely a recommendation of our DoF

How is this guy "obviously a wrong appointment?"

 

[Baleforce]

maybe I'm getting the timeline mixed up but his time at Shaktar was when they were routinely embarrassing supposed bigger sides in Europe right?

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Although all of the reports I read said that Levy would have the final say on the manangerial appointment. Plus ca change.

I struggle a bit with the expectation here. Levy stepping back from football matters means (to me) not being directly involved in transfer negotiations - set the budget and let your DoF get on with the buying/selling, and wage negotiations for renewing contracts. I would expect maybe some caveats, such as around selling a player like Kane, which is a bit of an extraordinary situation.
But does anyone really expect that any club chairman is not going to have the final say over the person who will be the manager/coach? I'd expect a remit to be given to the DoF, and the DoF to come up with candidates that meet the profile. But for the chairman/CEO not to give the final nod one way or the other to what is probably the most important role in the club (from a footballing perspective)? That would be bizarre to me.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Come on mate, here's how this is going

- He doesn't have an impressive record
- Well, actually he's won 9 trophies, played in CL & Europa, beat City (with real tactics, see video above) & Ajax
- Oh' well those trophies don't count and he lost to United (the side that finished 2nd in PL and made finals of Europa)

Please explain how a young manager
- Who plays attacking football
- Who's managed in multiple leagues
- Who has works with young players
- Who has experience in Europa & CL
- Who is likely a recommendation of our DoF

How is this guy "obviously a wrong appointment?"

No managerial appointment will be unanimously popular. As discussed in the Levy thread, I don’t believe there is untenable pressure on Levy but he’s being questioned now more so than he has been at any point that I can remember during his tenure. Personally I’m open minded about this appointment. Hopefully it works out, there will be more questions directed at Levy if it doesn’t. Hopefully all parties know what is expected of them, for example CL qualification this season probably isn’t overly realistic although not impossible either if we get the recruitment right and ship out the likes of Sanchez, Dier, Winks etc.

 

[Raziel]

maybe I'm getting the timeline mixed up but his time at Shaktar was when they were routinely embarrassing supposed bigger sides in Europe right?

well the CL run in 17/18

- They won all their home games including City, Napoli, Feyenoord & Roma
- Came 2nd in group, pushing Napoli in Europa
- They lost in R16 on away goals to Roma

 

[Raziel]

No managerial appointment will be unanimously popular. As discussed in the Levy thread, I don’t believe there is untenable pressure on Levy but he’s being questioned now more so than he has been at any point that I can remember during his tenure. Personally I’m open minded about this appointment. Hopefully it works out, there will be more questions directed at Levy if it doesn’t. Hopefully all parties know what is expected of them, for example CL qualification this season probably isn’t overly realistic although not impossible either if we get the recruitment right and ship out the likes of Sanchez, Dier, Winks etc.

Oh, completely agree, doesn't matter if it was Poch, Conte, Potter, whoever, people will bitch (I would have complained if it was Martinez)

What I don't get is the irrefutable statements "this guy is obviously the wrong appointment?" how? is he your choice = maybe not, but "absolutely the wrong guy"? ..

 

[lurker of old]

Personally speaking though if we aren't appointing a top level manager then i want to see Potter
Tend to agree with this. This league is so much tougher physically than most leagues, that not knowing this league could be a real weakness. Let's hope Levy and the new DOF know what they are doing, and that we get the rub of the green in the first home game...