Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
But we have got more points you said it yourself
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Next Manager?
- Thread starter StephenH
- Start date
MKSpur
Christian Ziege
Yeah maybe, not too dissimilar to the Liverpool game then where we are in the game (as in drawing without being a massive threat, despite being at home, but once we went behind we offered very little response in either game. That’s what the issue is, if you are knocking at the door and it doesn’t come off, you come away thinking over the course of the season you will do better.
I’m trying to think of an analogy for how we play, because there is a time and a place to be compact. If I was to use a poker analogy, we are sitting tight and hoping to receive good cards so we can bet. However if we wait too long we don’t have the chip stack to make a real profit or the read is obvious so no one else matches the raise. The parlance in that analogy would be tight passive, whereas we need to be tight aggressive. Loose aggressive would be the term for Leeds or Man U.
Context mate - 12 of those 19 games we were so bad it got the manager sacked.
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
Just sticking with the theme of spending money
In the £76m net spend under Jose we now have brought 6 players
That’s £12m per player if you take off the loan fee from Vinny as we don’t own him
Artetas net spend in that period is £64m for 6 players so an average of 10.7m
They are currently behind us
Aston Villa have spent £92.56m in that period for the same amount of players ... their behind us
I use Arsenal and Villa as examples as their ones that’s are deemed to be progressive
That’s the level were at actual spending wise so far
leicster under Rogers may be a better example as their ahead of us currently
They had two big sales in the summer windows. Brought no one in January so over the same period Jose has been here their net spend is only £9.2m all be it to buy only 2 players, but impressive none the less
Pool spent £40.5m net over the same period to buy 4 players outright
United spent £117.36m net in the same period for 5 players
City spent £99.14m net in that period too
In the £76m net spend under Jose we now have brought 6 players
That’s £12m per player if you take off the loan fee from Vinny as we don’t own him
Artetas net spend in that period is £64m for 6 players so an average of 10.7m
They are currently behind us
Aston Villa have spent £92.56m in that period for the same amount of players ... their behind us
I use Arsenal and Villa as examples as their ones that’s are deemed to be progressive
That’s the level were at actual spending wise so far
leicster under Rogers may be a better example as their ahead of us currently
They had two big sales in the summer windows. Brought no one in January so over the same period Jose has been here their net spend is only £9.2m all be it to buy only 2 players, but impressive none the less
Pool spent £40.5m net over the same period to buy 4 players outright
United spent £117.36m net in the same period for 5 players
City spent £99.14m net in that period too
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
we play naively
The reason I say that is we’re repeating the same mistakes too often and that has to be part of Jose’s frustration, but also his problem to fix
And lost of our issues have been in those draws, not taken the chances we created (wolves being the exception) which means the issue is both ends. Said it before but we conceded poor goals and have to score worldies. That’s not healthy or sustainable
Baleforce
Ron Henry
The first suggestion in this thread I could get behind.
Still a monumental step down from Jose though.
If we can't afford to back the rich mans Alladyce then maybe we should go for the real deal?
The football won't be any worse and i doubt the results would suffer either
6 players?
If you're discounting loan fees presumably you aren't counting Vinicius or Bale in your workings out?
Hojberg, Regulion, Doherty, Rodon, Hart
Are you counting Bergwijn too?
If so that's 6 players at 90m +/-
That's the sort of investment we're likely to see going forwards, maybe even less if it's another year outside of the top 4. Can we build the team Mourinho needs on yhat sort of money?
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
Yep
How do we compare to the sides like for like? I just checked as again it sets some context as you rightly say
Liverpool 55 vs 37 with one game more played so 18 points less and a game more
Leicester 42 vs 39 so 3 less points this season
City 41 vs 44 so 3 up and top
Chelsea 35 vs 30 so 5 down
United 31 vs 41 with a game more so 10 points better off like for like
Tottenham 30 vs 33 with a game less played. Win tomorrow and we’re 6 points up like for like and we lost the 20th and 21st games last season
Arsenal 27 vs 31 like for like so 4 points better off like for like
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
I’m using players we own vs total net spend
Using the data you gave mate
Our net spend is £76m in the Jose period
Can’t really include loan players as purchases as we dont own them as assets or risks but if we have spent money on their fees I’ve included it (3m for vinny in that total)
What do you think that shows?
Best not to include loans at all then.
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
It shows that despite some shocking results we’re doing better than we were this time last season
So are united and Arsenal
Leicester who everyone would say are having a blinder aren’t!,
Pool need to invest even more in the squad if that’s why their points are so far down
City are showing that despite a blip the money talks
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
Hence why I don’t
You did when you said players brought in
I also didnt include Gio in the number of purchase even though his spend is in the numbers as I think it’s wrong
If we did it would on paper be 7 purchases and even less investment per player
Jesus Christ mate you don't half twist up conversation points - such a nightmare to debate with sometimes
You made this a conversation about net investment per player- i was merely showing the amount of players Jose has had the opportunity to bring in, in the time that he has been here.
Other teams performance year on year isn't really relevant to how we are progressing so whilst it's interesting to see (i guess?) I'm not sure you've grasped my point wrt and how our poor start last year means we are comparing to a period where we had a reduced points total. We're 4 points better off than a brick half season basically. Bare minimum is what I'm getting at.
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
Surely it’s relevant as the table is each season isn’t it and we play those teams to get points. So you cAn see who is doing better or worseJesus Christ mate you don't half twist up conversation points - such a nightmare to debate with sometimes
You made this a conversation about net investment per player- i was merely showing the amount of players Jose has had the opportunity to bring in, in the time that he has been here.
Other teams performance year on year isn't really relevant to how we are progressing- ao whilst it's interesting to see (i guess) I'm not sure you've grasped my point wrt the slight improvement we have seen points wise
Every season is different so your baseline is last season and where you end up?
I was clear that I don’t include players we down own as players brought, but if we have spent money on them it should be classed as spend shouldn’t it?
l mean I could be an arse and say we should take out of that net spend the money for Lo Celso as that was a Poch buy and a deal done to bu6 him January or the end of the season before Jose joined. That would make the net spend even less around £48m for 6 players brought so £8m a player
Then the argument could be are £8m players gonna improve a side that made the CL final not that long ago?
But that wouldn’t take into account who was already here would it
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
You said here we spent £127m
And with that you would expect more
I’ve shown that we haven’t spent that much and we have got more points
I don’t know what else I can say
I’m not saying the football is good, I’ve never said that under him
But I can’t argue the results and points are better than they were last season
It may well get worse. That’s the worry surely
It has it's relevance somewhere I'm sure but again not to any point I'm discussing?
You brought up the points improvement that Jose had overseen - i tried to show you it was an improvement on what was a brick half of a season in an attempt to spell out thst 4 points better off than a brick performance doesn't mean you've done well - i thought it was pretty clear?