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OMT *** Spurs vs Bin Dippers ***

billyiddo said:
Yeah
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Ok...
Not sure how
I think your referring to tactics and of course Mourinho
But then arguably the fact that we have more points than last season would say were better than we were points wise.
I’m not saying it’s progress but I don’t believe the coaching is why we’re making these mistakes that cost us goals
I’ve said it loads but the players making the mistakes did the same under Poch which is why he got the boot
 
For Lloris' experience, he sure has a brain fart in him. I think it's time to ship him on and find an elite keeper.

Name one title-winning team that has played with a keeper that fudges up in big games? Yes I understand he makes some outstanding saves but his lack of consistency in being an elite keeper are glaringly obvious. This is not a backlash comment either.

I think getting an elite keeper is just as important as getting an elite striker.
 
Gazza said:
For Lloris' experience, he sure has a brain fart in him. I think it's time to ship him on and find an elite keeper.

Name one title-winning team that has played with a keeper that fudges up in big games? Yes I understand he makes some outstanding saves but his lack of consistency in being an elite keeper are glaringly obvious. This is not a backlash comment either.

I think getting an elite keeper is just as important as getting an elite striker.
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As shown by pool and city
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Ok...
Not sure how
I think your referring to tactics and of course Mourinho
But then arguably the fact that we have more points than last season would say were better than we were points wise.
I’m not saying it’s progress but I don’t believe the coaching is why we’re making these mistakes that cost us goals
I’ve said it loads but the players making the mistakes did the same under Poch which is why he got the boot
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If you can coach a team to be better than the sum of it's parts the reverse is true also?

Part tactics, part coaching - if you want the team to press but don't coach them how to effectively do so is it tactics or coaching?

When i watch us in possession i see no patterns of play or movement off the ball - Is this tacics or coaching?

We don't look like a team that know what to do with the ball unless it's a quick ball on behind for Son to run on to and that to me is a failure on the training pitch.
 
billyiddo said:
If you can coach a team to be better than the sum of it's parts the reverse is true also?

Part tactics, part coaching - if you want the team to press but don't coach them how to effectively do so is it tactics or coaching?

When i watch us in possession i see no patterns of play or movement off the ball? Is this tacics or coaching?

We don't look like a team that know to do with the ball amd that to me is a failure on the training pitch.
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Ok
Can’t argue with that
But I’d add it’s possible that the players are now too stupid/broken/arrogant or a combination of them to listen and understand
As I’ve said it’s not new for them to play like this
 
Hard to imagine how last night could have been any worse (bar Liverpool going on to score another 3 goals at the end).

Firstly, let me just regurgitate my usual trite about 'fine margins' - it may seem irrelevant and trivial with hindsight of seeing what panned out but Sonny's goal stands (though legitimately was offside) and we're 1-0 up in 5 minutes. We know, statistically, what a difference the first goal in a game makes. Essentially it's not unthinkable that we go 1-0 ahead and hold on to it or at least get a draw.

It was a weird tactical set up - conventional wisdom tells us that Sissoko is a must for these big games alongside Hojbjerg - it almost feels as if Jose was stuck between his usual defensive pragmatism and trying to incorporate Ndombele, Son, Kane and Bergwijn within the parameters of our defensive options. Glenn Hoddle kept saying during the 1st half that we were getting outnumbered in midfield but I felt this was a controlled situation - whilst we sat deep with the five behind it didn't really matter that Liverpool had a man advantage because as soon as they got into the final third we were able to swamp them.

It was only when we had more possession higher up the field that the midfield became an issue and when Liverpool countered with looked in trouble.

Much like the Leicester home game in December the crucial moment came in 1st half stoppage time through lack of concentration. We didn't press Henderson (perhaps Kane hobbling about affected this) leaving a gaping gap in midfield and behind our defense which wasn't deep enough. If we had played deeper we deal with that. Then a catastrophic error between Lloris and Dier after Davies doesn't step up in time. 3 big individual errors.

In hindsight the rumours of the bust up at half time explain the car crash at the start of the second half.

at 0-1 its a very different game, even at 1-2 with a bit of momentum Liverpool have you exactly where they want you. The half time changes felt very un-Jose like; it felt like a bit of a Hail Mary to create some chaos and hope for the best. Without Kane we couldnt get the ball to stick; were open through the midfield and Liverpool were easily able to pick us off.

Winks and Lamela were completely ineffective. I like both but Lamela's value to the team is when we're holding onto a lead not when trying to get back into a game; Winks just had an off night.

We can only hope that the news on Kane wont be TOO bad and remind oursleves how many other teams have looked in desperate situations throughout the season only to turn it around with 5 or 6 wins in quick succession.
 
A
GPRD81 said:
Hard to imagine how last night could have been any worse (bar Liverpool going on to score another 3 goals at the end).

Firstly, let me just regurgitate my usual trite about 'fine margins' - it may seem irrelevant and trivial with hindsight of seeing what panned out but Sonny's goal stands (though legitimately was offside) and we're 1-0 up in 5 minutes. We know, statistically, what a difference the first goal in a game makes. Essentially it's not unthinkable that we go 1-0 ahead and hold on to it or at least get a draw.

It was a weird tactical set up - conventional wisdom tells us that Sissoko is a must for these big games alongside Hojbjerg - it almost feels as if Jose was stuck between his usual defensive pragmatism and trying to incorporate Ndombele, Son, Kane and Bergwijn within the parameters of our defensive options. Glenn Hoddle kept saying during the 1st half that we were getting outnumbered in midfield but I felt this was a controlled situation - whilst we sat deep with the five behind it didn't really matter that Liverpool had a man advantage because as soon as they got into the final third we were able to swamp them.

It was only when we had more possession higher up the field that the midfield became an issue and when Liverpool countered with looked in trouble.

Much like the Leicester home game in December the crucial moment came in 1st half stoppage time through lack of concentration. We didn't press Henderson (perhaps Kane hobbling about affected this) leaving a gaping gap in midfield and behind our defense which wasn't deep enough. If we had played deeper we deal with that. Then a catastrophic error between Lloris and Dier after Davies doesn't step up in time. 3 big individual errors.

In hindsight the rumours of the bust up at half time explain the car crash at the start of the second half.

at 0-1 its a very different game, even at 1-2 with a bit of momentum Liverpool have you exactly where they want you. The half time changes felt very un-Jose like; it felt like a bit of a Hail Mary to create some chaos and hope for the best. Without Kane we couldnt get the ball to stick; were open through the midfield and Liverpool were easily able to pick us off.

Winks and Lamela were completely ineffective. I like both but Lamela's value to the team is when we're holding onto a lead not when trying to get back into a game; Winks just had an off night.

We can only hope that the news on Kane wont be TOO bad and remind oursleves how many other teams have looked in desperate situations throughout the season only to turn it around with 5 or 6 wins in quick succession.
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A very good summary
 
my penny's worth:

1) Dier at fault. believe Rio said the same, it's his line, he's got the man, even if Lloris calls for it, you clear it, you don't take a chance. It's utter schoolboy defending and i mean that literally. In amateur local youth football you're told two things, never pass across your own box, and never leave a ball running through. That's not the first time Dier has failed to clear his line. Amateur. He's a PL level CB if that level is Sheff Utd or Burnley.

2) And maybe i'll save this for the Mourinho thread, but didn't understand at all bringing Lamela on. Our last shot on goal was Hojbjerg's goal in 48th minute. Mentioned before in a few times i haven't got the subs that Mourinho has made, and this is another example. If Mourinho ball is predicated on defense not making mistakes, and we've shown time and time again, our defensive side makes mistakes, then maybe you need to find another solution instead of relying on that method?

3) Rodon had a brilliant game, but suffered the same lapse as Dier and it hurt us, he gets time as he's young and will improve, but that's the second time he's made a costly mistake (thankfully the last wasn't punished vs Chelsea) - has to be smarter

Will post on the Jose thread a bit more but i would also suggest people take time to read 16 Conclusions of the game at F365, always a big fan of their analysis and they hit some nails on the head. It's grim reading though.
 
Diamond Lights said:
my penny's worth:

1) Dier at fault. believe Rio said the same, it's his line, he's got the man, even if Lloris calls for it, you clear it, you don't take a chance. It's utter schoolboy defending and i mean that non-figuratively. In amateur local youth football you're told two things, never pass across your own box, and never leave a ball running through. That's not the first time Dier has failed to clear his line. Amateur. He's a PL level CB if that level is Sheff Utd or Burnley.

2) And maybe i'll save this for the Mourinho thread, but didn't understand at all bringing Lamela on. Our last shot on goal was Hojbjerg's goal in 48th minute. Mentioned before in a few times i haven't got the subs that Mourinho has made, and this is another example. If Mourinho ball is predicated on defense not making mistakes, and we've shown time and time again, our defensive side makes mistakes, then maybe you need to find another solution instead of relying on that method?

3) Rodon had a brilliant game, but suffered the same lapse as Dier and it hurt us, he gets time as he's young and will improve, but that's the second time he's made a costly mistake (thankfully the last wasn't punished vs Chelsea) - has to be smarter

Will post on the Jose thread a bit more but i would also suggest people take time to read 16 Conclusions of the game at F365, always a big fan of their analysis and they hit some nails on the head. It's grim reading though.
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It’s it the first time he hasn’t cleared his lines I agree
It’s not the first time Hugo has stayed still and not gone to the ball in front of him or took charge
They also said that in BT last night. They didn’t decide who was to blame but someone (I think it was Rio) when pushed said Hugo should take charge as it’s front of him
 
Bedfordspurs said:
View attachment 10799

This was mentioned a lot on here too last night
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I'm so tired of this brick .. really trying not to put the tinfoil hat on but

- No VAR look when it was clear keeper was outside (sending off)
- Son's goal being ruled off with what looks like picking the wrong frame
- Tiago should have been yellow carded for his first tackle on Kane (both feet off ground, not in control), so should have been off as well
- Son fouled in box (haven't looked at replays, but again, VAR didn't even review)

We still had our own problems but why the fudge does it seem we are always playing against 12 men?
 
Diamond Lights said:
my penny's worth:

1) Dier at fault. believe Rio said the same, it's his line, he's got the man, even if Lloris calls for it, you clear it, you don't take a chance. It's utter schoolboy defending and i mean that non-figuratively. In amateur local youth football you're told two things, never pass across your own box, and never leave a ball running through. That's not the first time Dier has failed to clear his line. Amateur. He's a PL level CB if that level is Sheff Utd or Burnley.

2) And maybe i'll save this for the Mourinho thread, but didn't understand at all bringing Lamela on. Our last shot on goal was Hojbjerg's goal in 48th minute. Mentioned before in a few times i haven't got the subs that Mourinho has made, and this is another example. If Mourinho ball is predicated on defense not making mistakes, and we've shown time and time again, our defensive side makes mistakes, then maybe you need to find another solution instead of relying on that method?

3) Rodon had a brilliant game, but suffered the same lapse as Dier and it hurt us, he gets time as he's young and will improve, but that's the second time he's made a costly mistake (thankfully the last wasn't punished vs Chelsea) - has to be smarter

Will post on the Jose thread a bit more but i would also suggest people take time to read 16 Conclusions of the game at F365, always a big fan of their analysis and they hit some nails on the head. It's grim reading though.
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The F365 comments are great
 
This is now the 4th or 5th time we have had the chance to capitalise on other results this season and we have fudged up every opportunity.

sexy bottlejobs.
 
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Yiddo said:
This is now the 4th if 5th time we have had the chance to capitalise only other results this season and we have fudged up every opportunity.

sexy bottlejobs.
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Bottle job is United losing against Sheffield, not us losing against the side that walked the PL last season
 
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