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OMT *** Spurs vs Bin Dippers ***

billyiddo said:
Come on lads Liverpool are way off form and have no defense - proper team goes out there and beats them
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100% agree.

They had Nat Phillips and Jordan Henderson as their centre backs in second half. Our last shot on goal was PEH goal in 48th minute. no one can tell me that was because of Liverpool's superiority. We couldn't manage a fudging shot.

I seriously urge people to read the F365 link i sent above (no i dont work for them), but so many important points made like this:

Tottenham have been outshot in every home Premier League game they have played against current top-half opposition so far this season. In total, they have managed 40 shots against Everton, West Ham, Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal, Leicester and Liverpool, allowing 92.
 
Baleforce said:
It wasn’t even a particularly hard shot, he should have held onto it.

He makes some really stupid decisions sometimes.
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I'm not floating excuses for him, I do think he is culpable for two of the goals really, but if the locker room bust-up with Aurier is true then his mind would not be 100% focused on the game. It has to have affected him and the rest of the team.

The way we downed tools in the 2nd half leads me to think we may have crossed the rubicon with Jose. It happens with all managers at some point that the team disengages with the managers playing philosophy. Playing Jose's defensive style but with zero commitment to it will result in a few thrashings.
 
Rorschach said:
I'm not floating excuses for him, I do think he is culpable for two of the goals really, but if the locker room bust-up with Aurier is true then his mind would not be 400% focused on the game. It has to have affected him and the rest of the team.

The way we downed tools in the 2nd half leads me to think we may have crossed the rubicon with Jose. It happens with all managers at some point that the team disengages with the managers playing philosophy. Playing Jose's defensive style but with zero commitment to it will result in a few thrashings.
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I'd consider that a mental weakness unbecoming of a professional athlete. Not that his character, and seemingly every player that pulls on our jersey, hasn't been under question previously.

I agree, something was seriously fudged up with that second half performance, it was lazy, by far our worst under Jose.

I think we are fudged, I've given up, forever.
 
Baleforce said:
I'd consider that a mental weakness unbecoming of a professional athlete. Not that his character, and seemingly every player that pulls on our jersey, hasn't been under question previously.

I agree, something was seriously fudged up with that second half performance, it was lazy, by far our worst under Jose.

I think we are fudged, I've given up, forever.
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Chin up mate. There's plenty more pain and anguish to come. You need to pace yourself.
 
This is possibly for another thread, but I can't help myself. :oops:

Bedfordspurs said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1354929195638468612

an interesting view
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Quite. And that's the reason why these millimetre offside calls shouldn't be reviewed. It's too close to call with current technology. From those two still shots I'm not able to see when the ball leaves N'Dombele's foot. Probably a frame in between - I don't know. And unless the VAR team has access to superior quality images or angles that viewers don't have, neither can they be sure. If they do - well then why don't the viewers get to see what they see? Complete transparency is absolutely instrumental for the trust and credibility of VAR.

Since the rules of football and interpretation of them are changed a few times a week, I don't know whether that excellent guiding principle of giving the attacking team the advantage still stands. Either way, there's no way for anyone to be certain that Son was offside there.

From the still frame the VAR team picked out, he was - but was that the exact moment the ball left N'Dombele's foot? There's no way to tell. And thus there is no way to be sure it was an offside.

Wrong decision #1.

Bedfordspurs said:
View attachment 10799

This was mentioned a lot on here too last night
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Ask any - ANY - sensible football fan why they wanted video refereeing, and they'd say it's a great way to rid the game of blatant refereeing errors. This was one. I can forgive the ref and linesman for not seeing it, but for video referees to not act on this, is unforgivable. It's plain to see even from this slightly awkward angle that both his feet and his hands were outside the area when he caught the ball.

Considering the lengths to which the VAR team went to spot an unspottable offside, it's a disgrace that this blatant violation of the rules - in full view of VAR cameras - wasn't punished.

Wrong decision #2.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe our problems run way deeper than incompetent video refereeing. Even if we'd gone one up I'm not sure we'd manage to win the game. Poor game management, individual errors and lacklustre effort cost us dearly, and that second half display was as bad as anything I've seen from us. We so, so deserved to lose, especially after that final 45 minutes.

However; we certainly weren't given any favours from the VAR team either, apart from their correctly disallowed goal.
 
On further reflection I was happy with the first half. We created good chances for Son which 4 weeks ago he'd have scored and on another day been shown to be onside. I didnt feel Liverpool possessed any particular threat - yes they overran midfield but we defended the box well. The paradox to this statement though is that we were prone to individual errors. I don't think these were tactical problems. We have to live with the fact that Rodon (and Tanganga) will make fairly rudimentary errors owing to their age/experience. It really doesn't help that Toby has regressed physically and that Dier is a 7/10 defender who needs a superior player next to him to hide his deficiencies and that Sanchez appears to be way off the standard required.

Much like the Leicester game though the problem with Jose's tactics is that results are SO explicitly linked to scoring first or at least equalising pretty quickly after going behind. The second half was a car crash but unlike the Leicester defeat which was very similar in many ways, he did make some changes at half time and try to do something different - enforced by Kane injury. Alas they didn't work out either structurally as a midfield diamond or in terms of personnel - Winks was unusually wasteful with the ball; Lamela always seemed the wrong sub for the situation.

There was no pattern to the second half and despite PEH's goal Liverpool were able to control the game and pick us off at ease. There was no joy at all in the second half but I still reflect back on the first half and was encouraged and felt there was a plan in place, slightly more progressive than other times this season. It was not inconceivable at 0-0 that we would get at least a draw out of the game. The totally avoidable goal before half time coupled with Harry's injury killed us.
 
Kandi1977 said:
Doherty is the worst player I've seen in a Spurs shirt in a very long time! Hasn't played a single game were he was more than a 5. looks half hearted, can't tackle, can't pass, can't cross and doesn't look particularly good at heading either. But none of that matters, because he's so pedestrian slow, that by the time he could do any of the previous mentioned actions, the moment to do it is long gone! He's utterly useless!
What a waste of money!
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Don't think I can recall as much regression in form from a player coming to us from another Premiership club
 
Mikey10 said:
Lamela? Yes
Moura? Yes
Dele? Yes
Dier? Definitely
Alderweireld? Definitely (he struggled against Wycombe’s front line)
Davies? Possibly

With some of those that have been here a long time, perhaps they simply aren’t as good we think.

Take Son (who I love) - he is sensational on his day, but he often goes for long stretches without contributing anything at all, last night being the latest example.

We can keep changing the manager, get a bounce for a couple of months, and perhaps then be back to square one with some of these players. There is no getting away from the fact that we conceded three goals last night which were all down to individual errors. In fact, that undersells it - they were down to absolute howlers.

I’m just about giving Mourinho the benefit of the doubt for now, but he is not being helped by the squad.
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Towards the end of the game and with Son the only recognised striker in our team at that point, what the hell was he doing on the edge of our own penalty area. Utter madness.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Our next manager will be him IMO
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And Southampton will hate us even more. I do wonder though if our treatment of Pochettino would make a manager like Hasunhuttl think twice. Southampton showed him a lot of loyalty when they were bottom of the league and had been humped 9-0. Levy didn't show Poch anything like that same loyalty despite the manager having a huge amount of credit in the Bank for our rise from Europa league also rans to CL regulars.
 
Finney Is Back said:
And Southampton will hate us even more. I do wonder though if our treatment of Pochettino would make a manager like Hasunhuttl think twice. Southampton showed him a lot of loyalty when they were bottom of the league and had been humped 9-0. Levy didn't show Poch anything like that same loyalty despite the manager having a huge amount of credit in the Bank for our rise from Europa league also rans to CL regulars.
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I disagree, Levy gave him a long time to turn things around, almost a year, performances and xG started dropping in 2018.
 
billyiddo said:
They ain't sticking around if Mourinho has time longer than he should.

We have a decent squad - find the manager for next season, work on who he needs to fill the ?'s below and we can have a good season


Lloris
Aurier ??? ??? Regulion
Hojberg Ndombele
Dele/GLC
??? Kane Son
​
@Bishop - this kinda covers your post below...
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Something worth pointing out is that Mourinho has signed 9 players at Spurs.....
Hart
Doherty
Rodon
Regulion
Hojbjerg
Bergwijn
Gedson
Vinicuis
Bale
He also has the use of some excellent players left from Pochettino's reign who would likely get in at least 17 of the other teams in the league (Lloris, Kane, Son, Ndombele, Dele) as well as a bunch of others who are of good PL quality.

The rhetoric when Mourinho came in was that we had a great squad and the manager was failing and we just needed a winner of a manager to take us to the top. 9 signings from the new manager later and suddenly we have a weak squad? I don't get it.... If that is the case then either the original rhetoric was very badly wrong or the manager has gone out and made the wrong signings.
 
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Bishop said:
I look at that side and I'm not impressed. The centre back situation poop. Toby is geriateic and Dier has never proven himself good enough as a CB.

Sissoko is an awful player and should never be played as a CM his lack of care for the ball, his consistent hiding and just uselessness preclude him playing.

So the actual spine of the side is weak, old, mediocre and plain useless. It's not a good side, it's lacks balance through the middle.

Now please understand I make no excuses for Jose, o have thought he has been a source of quote a few issues in terms of team setup and some crappy selections. We are close to something but the areas lacking are the most important areas of them all.
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I don't get the lack of care on the ball comment about Sissoko. I really don't think the reality matches the perception there. I see many players in our team giving the ball away in far poorer ways than Sissoko does.... Winks, Lamela, Doherty, Dier for example are all masters of this. Sissoko is a reserve player anyway, or at least should be, just like the other four players I mentioned. The manager has had Hojbjerg, GLC and Ndombele fit and available to him and just not played them. Alternatively he has Dele who he can use in there. The manager is the one that chooses to go with the defensive formations and players, he isn't forced to. He just likes to play on the back foot instead of the front foot.

We definitely need centre backs. Although we did actually sign one in the summer (it really should've been two as it was pretty clear that only Alderweireld of the incumbents already at the club were close to being good enough).

Our centre back came from the Championship, which is an easy league to adapt from and he was one of the two or three highest rated centre backs in that league. Yet the manager hasn't really picked him (until last night). Villa have Konsa who they took from Brentford and is same age as Rodon and is a first choice player there. Have we scouted badly or is the manager too risk averse? If we knew we were weak at the centre of defence and wanted Rodon then why did we fart around and allow him to become Cup tied for the League Cup? Why did we not pick him for the Europa League squad? If we know Sanchez isn't good enough then why does he play instead of Rodon? If we know that Dier isn't good enough then why does he play ahead of Rodon?

Personally I'd play Rodon with Toby or Dier as the first choice pair for the rest of the season. If Rodon isn't good enough then let's expose that now so that we are clear next summer on whether we still need two new centre backs or just one to partner Rodon with Dier and Toby as good a cover options as any team has.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I don’t think their playing badly
I think their still being stupid
The mistakes we make are basic errors. Sunday league level at times. That happened under Poch, under Jol, under Harry under every Spurs manager I can remember
Until that stupidity changes were not gonna win big prizes
Poch almost nailed it that final season at the lame and that period and we know that Wembley had a huge affect in his opportunity to do deliver what he could
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When players keep on making mistakes it probably indicates that they are not very good players.....
 
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