A worrying trend?

[billyiddo]

They have continually signed a LOT of players to suit klopps system
From the team that played us that day 3/4 starters left plus a few squad players
They invested heavily to get the squad how he wants it to play the way he wants

No, they invested heavily to perfect the squad after Klopp had shown his potential as manager there and the potential of his style of play.

 

[DeanoAustin]

They have continually signed a LOT of players to suit klopps system
From the team that played us that day 3/4 starters left plus a few squad players
They invested heavily to get the squad how he wants it to play the way he wants

They spent big on VVD and Allisson. The rest haven’t been massive signings by today’s standards. Even so, the point is that from the start, Klopp played on the front foot and has looked like making progress which will get goodwill from the fans and board. Right now, we aren’t doing either so, if results continue like the last 4 games, Jose will be under severe pressure.

If we start winning again, Jose will be fine. The problem is, playing this way, I’m struggling to see us winning a lot of games.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

No, they invested heavily to perfect the squad after Klopp had shown his potential as manager there and the potential of his style of play.

He was playing a lot more long ball at the time and very much kick and rush
He brought a whole new spine for his team basically to change the system to what we see now

 

[Bedfordspurs]

They spent big on VVD and Allisson. The rest haven’t been massive signings by today’s standards. Even so, the point is that from the start, Klopp played on the front foot and has looked like making progress which will get goodwill from the fans and board. Right now, we aren’t doing either so, if results continue like the last 4 games, Jose will be under severe pressure.

If we start winning again, Jose will be fine. The problem is, playing this way, I’m struggling to see us winning a lot of games.

The way your talking is that players like Keita (a record for a midfielder) and Fabinho at £40m were bargains
They have spent a fortune to create their team and squad

and the only reason is because they played on the front foot. That does seem to be the crux of what fans want. A team to play attacking football and lose is acceptable

 

[DeanoAustin]

The way your talking is that players like Keita (a record for a midfielder) and Fabinho at £40m were bargains
They have spent a fortune to create their team and squad

and the only reason is because they played on the front foot. That does seem to be the crux of what fans want. A team to play attacking football and lose is acceptable

That’s not the only reason at all. Klopp was clearly making progress from early on. They finished 6th in Rodger’s last full season, 8th the season Klopp replaced him and have been top 4 ever since. He made them top 4 in his first full season after the club missed out on CL football in 6 out of 7 seasons before that. If Jose does the same, he won’t have a problem.

He’s had the Coutinho money to reinvest which won them a CL and Premier League which then gives him more money to invest.

His style and demeanour have helped because it’s easier to buy into it rather than Jose’s attritional, defensive style. But, like I say, if Jose gets us top 4, keeps us there and wins trophies like Klopp has done at Liverpool since his first full season, Jose won’t have a problem.

A team that plays attacking football and doesn’t win trophies (eg Poch’s) is far more lovable than one who defends and wins nothing because people like being entertained. But win trophies playing defensive football and you’ll also be remembered fondly. The problem is, it’s hard to see it at the moment.

 

[StephenH]

spot on especially the last paragraph.

but if we don't adapt it will be a sad long season!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That’s not the only reason at all. Klopp was clearly making progress from early on. They finished 6th in Rodger’s last full season, 8th the season Klopp replaced him and have been top 4 ever since. He made them top 4 in his first full season after the club missed out on CL football in 6 out of 7 seasons before that. If Jose does the same, he won’t have a problem.

He’s had the Coutinho money to reinvest which won them a CL and Premier League which then gives him more money to invest.

His style and demeanour have helped because it’s easier to buy into it rather than Jose’s attritional, defensive style. But, like I say, if Jose gets us top 4, keeps us there and wins trophies like Klopp has done at Liverpool since his first full season, Jose won’t have a problem.

A team that plays attacking football and doesn’t win trophies (eg Poch’s) is far more lovable than one who defends and wins nothing because people like being entertained. But win trophies playing defensive football and you’ll also be remembered fondly. The problem is, it’s hard to see it at the moment.

But it wasn’t hard to see to weeks ago
I mean we were being talked up as pools only real challengers
United were dire and Everton were plummeting
Look how quickly it changed

 

[DeanoAustin]

But it wasn’t hard to see to weeks ago
I mean we were being talked up as pools only real challengers
United were dire and Everton were plummeting
Look how quickly it changed

That’s a fair argument but I think there were a few supporters on here saying we would be found out even when the results were good. Without wishing to be an “I told you so” merchant I did say we couldn’t win the league playing like we did against Arsenal and Chelsea and was told we could.

I still think we have the players and manager to challenge but not with this ultra defensive style. It’s also not the style of play that’s brought Jose success during his career in my opinion. It brought him the sack at United but he was never this devoid of ambition at Porto, Chelsea, Madrid or Inter.

 

[Finney Is Back]

But it wasn’t hard to see to weeks ago
I mean we were being talked up as pools only real challengers
United were dire and Everton were plummeting
Look how quickly it changed

We would be foolish to expect our opponents not to have learnt pretty much our only tactic of getting 10 of our players into our defensive third and then looking to get Kane on the ball in a bit of space centrally. Even Lampard had got wise to it a good few weeks ago.

 

[billyiddo]

People were getting behind the results not the football being played - massive difference

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That’s a fair argument but I think there were a few supporters on here saying we would be found out even when the results were good. Without wishing to be an “I told you so” merchant I did say we couldn’t win the league playing like we did against Arsenal and Chelsea and was told we could.

I still think we have the players and manager to challenge but not with this ultra defensive style. It’s also not the style of play that’s brought Jose success during his career in my opinion. It brought him the sack at United but he was never this devoid of ambition at Porto, Chelsea, Madrid or Inter.

Teams have won the league playing like we did
I mean Leicester did it, didn’t they
He got the sack at United after inheriting an appallingly unbalanced squad full of defenders and then buying some better players
The ultra defensive style is a reaction to that
West Ham game and a lack of certain qualities in the squad I believe. We have only one try quality CM currently for a start and it’s a key area with any system
I also believe changing a system takes a bit of time and a bit of fortune (timing of games and fitness of players for a start)
But teams form can change so quickly right now and the league is so tight
We’re 5th yet have only took 2 points from 12 which shows a lot

 

[Bedfordspurs]

People were getting behind the results not the football being played - massive difference

We were in complete control in those games though so it was valid to get behind the results. We were keeping dwarves clean sheets and creating the quality chances. We even did that vs pool.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We would be foolish to expect our opponents not to have learnt pretty much our only tactic of getting 10 of our players into our defensive third and then looking to get Kane on the ball in a bit of space centrally. Even Lampard had got wise to it a good few weeks ago.

So why didn’t Lampard do anything to deal with it?
Chelsea created nothing that game and their best chance came from our mistake. That was a Chelsea in superb form apparently too
Please feel free to main about results etc... but don’t reinvent games.
It’s would be like saying arsenal dominated as they created Laos’s but actually anyone who saw the game knew they carried no threat all game

 

[DeanoAustin]

Teams have won the league playing like we did
I mean Leicester did it, didn’t they
He got the sack at United after inheriting an appallingly unbalanced squad full of defenders and then buying some better players
The ultra defensive style is a reaction to that
West Ham game and a lack of certain qualities in the squad I believe. We have only one try quality CM currently for a start and it’s a key area with any system
I also believe changing a system takes a bit of time and a bit of fortune (timing of games and fitness of players for a start)
But teams form can change so quickly right now and the league is so tight
We’re 5th yet have only took 2 points from 12 which shows a lot

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t remember Leicester being as unbalanced as us and completely sitting in on leads. For sure they relied on the counter and on Vardy and Mahrez but I recall them beating Liverpool 2-0 at their place and City 3-1 away and they weren’t the type of performances we’ve been putting in.

You are right though, we’re still in the hunt for CL and an outside chance at the title so I wouldn’t write us off yet. But the manager needs to be more ambitious for me because playing this way, if it continues, and we’ll end up around 6th.

 

[billyiddo]

We were in complete control in those games though so it was valid to get behind the results. We were keeping dwarves clean sheets and creating the quality chances. We even did that vs pool.

In your opinion. Not in mine - we struggled to create chances and often gave up as many half chances as managed to carve out ourselves, we were just relying on converting at a better rate than our opponents. That's unsustainable when the number of chances is so low.

People got blind sighted by the period Son and Kane were on fire and before opponents cottoned on, when we played United, Saints and Spam.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

In your opinion. Not in mine - we struggled to create chances and often gave up as many half chances as did manage to carve out ourselves, we were just relying on converting at a better rate than our opponents. That's unsustainable when the number of chances is so low.

People got blind sighted by the period Son and Kane were on fire and before opponents cottoned on, when we played United, Saints and Spam.

Nah I don’t agree
I get your perspective about recent games and that’s fair but I’m sure in the previous run when we were top Hugo only made something like 8 saves or something silly
And we were scoring or having high chance chances every time we attacked
Not the case in recent games though

what do you mean with your reference to United, Spam etc..? We didn’t play defensive in those games did we

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t remember Leicester being as unbalanced as us and completely sitting in on leads. For sure they relied on the counter and on Vardy and Mahrez but I recall them beating Liverpool 2-0 at their place and City 3-1 away and they weren’t the type of performances we’ve been putting in.

You are right though, we’re still in the hunt for CL and an outside chance at the title so I wouldn’t write us off yet. But the manager needs to be more ambitious for me because playing this way, if it continues, and we’ll end up around 6th.

They played super defensive long ball
They had a back 4 that never left the half and two CMs who shielded that defence. Their wingers were mahrez who got goals and generally a more defensive one in Albrighton
That was their system and it worked. Pool played very similar by the way until they got better midfielders

 

[braineclipse]

So why didn’t Lampard do anything to deal with it?
Chelsea created nothing that game and their best chance came from our mistake. That was a Chelsea in superb form apparently too
Please feel free to main about results etc... but don’t reinvent games.
It’s would be like saying arsenal dominated as they created Laos’s but actually anyone who saw the game knew they carried no threat all game

Second half against Liverpool was good, first half was poor. First half against Palace was quite good, second half was poor.

Would like to see at least spells where we put opponents under more pressure, have more ways of playing. But I don't really have a problem with a more defensive setup against the better teams and when having the lead, as long as we're looking threatening on the break with a good frequency of counter attacks. Been a while since we've looked really blistering on the break. Would like to see at least spells where we put opponents under more pressure, have more ways of playing.

Play better now or the time, simple really.

 

[DeanoAustin]

They played super defensive long ball
They had a back 4 that never left the half and two CMs who shielded that defence. Their wingers were mahrez who got goals and generally a more defensive one in Albrighton
That was their system and it worked. Pool played very similar by the way until they got better midfielders

I don’t think they were as unbalanced as us though. We have little attacking threat. Leicester always gave you something to think about. They never sat in as much as we’re sitting in.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don’t think they were as unbalanced as us though. We have little attacking threat. Leicester always gave you something to think about. They never sat in as much as we’re sitting in.

I disagree I really do
They had players set up in blankets to sit deep
Then hit the counter with pace
I watched a lot of them as they were too and so many teams have them space for long balls it was scary. They were predictable but looked more dynamic as teams attacked them abs left space