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*** OMT: Tottenham Hotspur vs Liverpool ***

milo said:
They're certainly a lot better than us at their way of playing. I thought that we did well today and were worth a point. For all of their possession, they scored a deflected goal and a last minute goal from a set piece.
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I say that every season and they find a way to beat us. That’s why they are champions and we are not. It’s cold hard reality sadly. I genuinely thought we would be better against them today.
 
Robspur12 said:
Yes Liverpool are better than us and have been for some time. To see anything else is nonsense at the moment. Today even with different tactics was no different to the other games against Klopps team in the last 2 seasons. I am not sure what you saw differently. At least early in Klopp’s reign we didn’t lose to them. So if we are going to lose to them we might as well take the game to them like we used to.
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Careful or @nayenezgani will start calling you a Liverpool fan.

As for the game and our tactics in general, it’s a bit too passive and anti-football at times when we go for almost an entire half without creating anything, having a shot or attacking. But the 2nd half was spot on tactically but you can’t legislate for awful finishing sometimes. Liverpool will argue they dominated possession and could have been more than 1-0 up in the first half but we created better chances then they did in the 2nd half and should have been in the position of hanging on for a win at the end rather then switching off in injury time during a set piece. We also got outplayed by them at home under Poch at times. We just don’t ever seem to take our chances against them.
 
Robspur12 said:
I say that every season and they find a way to beat us. That’s why they are champions and we are not. It’s cold hard reality sadly. I genuinely thought we would be better against them today.
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First half our attacking play was non-existent. 2nd half we arguably should have won. It’s frustrating that we seem to pick our moments to attack like we did tonight and on Sunday. Had we been more proactive against palace we probably win the match rather than letting the game pass us by and having to scramble in the last 10 mins to try and get the lead again.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Careful or @nayenezgani will start calling you a Liverpool fan.

As for the game and our tactics in general, it’s a bit too passive and anti-football at times when we go for almost an entire half without creating anything, having a shot or attacking. But the 2nd half was spot on tactically but you can’t legislate for awful finishing sometimes. Liverpool will argue they dominated possession and could have been more than 1-0 up in the first half but we created better chances then they did in the 2nd half and should have been in the position of hanging on for a win at the end rather then switching off in injury time during a set piece. We also got outplayed by them at home under Poch at times. We just don’t ever seem to take our chances against them.
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I didn’t think the chances we created 2nd half were from great play, they were opportunistic and I certainly didn’t see them as sitters. So we are relying on mistakes from the other team rather than carving out chances. Sadly not every team is Arsenal. Both of Bergwyn’s chances were not straight on the goal. The first he was under pressure so scuffed it and the second was difficult when you are not a great finisher, in fact we have seen both Kane and Son miss easier chances. But we have more than enough talented offensive players to offer more than we did in that game. We were beaten by Liverpool under Poch too but we really went at them at times and were unlucky. The game two seasons ago when sissoko skied it comes to mind. Sometimes I would just like Jose to take an offensive risk. I think today like Sunday really hurt because it feels like all the components are in place for us to be champions this season. And somehow we still fall short.
 
Robspur12 said:
I didn’t think the chances we created 2nd half were from great play, they were opportunistic and I certainly didn’t see them as sitters. Both of Bergwyn’s chances were not straight on the goal. The first he was under pressure so scuffed it and the second was difficult when you are not a great finisher, in fact we have seen both Kane and Son miss easier chances. But we have more than enough talented offensive players to offer more than we did in that game. We were beaten by Liverpool under Poch too but we really went at them at times and were unlucky. The game two seasons ago when sissoko skied it comes to mind. Sometimes I would just like Jose to take an offensive risk. I think today like Sunday really hurt because it feels like all the components are in place for us to be champions this season.
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The first one Bergwijn missed wasn’t easy but it was a good chance. The second was a one on one that you have to score if you play for a top team. I’m not letting Kane off the hook btw, it happens, everyone misses chances but Bergwijn had TWO and didn’t hit the target with either, that is poor IMO.

I do agree to an extent and would like to see us attack more at times. I’m more confused with how we played against palace than with how we set out tonight. Palace are a mid table side but we didn’t look interested in trying to score a second goal until they equalised. Liverpool are Anfield is a different kettle of fish. They haven’t lost a home game in over 3 years. I’m more annoyed that we lost to them with a lucky deflection and a set piece in stoppage time because we switched off and didn’t pick up their most dangerous player from set pieces then I am with how we played. We could have had a go at little more tbh but it’s more acceptable to me to play like that against them than it is against a team like Palace.
 
Jurgen the German said:
The first one Bergwijn missed wasn’t easy but it was a good chance. The second was a one on one that you have to score if you play for a top team. I’m not letting Kane off the hook btw, it happens, everyone misses chances but Bergwijn had TWO and didn’t hit the target with either, that is poor IMO.

I do agree to an extent and would like to see us attack more at times. I’m more confused with how we played against palace than with how we set out tonight. Palace are a mid table side but we didn’t look interested in trying to score a second goal until they equalised. Liverpool are Anfield is a different kettle of fish. They haven’t lost a home game in over 3 years. I’m more annoyed that we lost to them with a lucky deflection and a set piece in stoppage time because we switched off and didn’t pick up their most dangerous player from set pieces then I am with how we played. We could have had a go at little more tbh but it’s more acceptable to me to play like that against them than it is against a team like Palace.
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I don’t think Bergwyn should be in our starting 11. We have far better players than him, I would trust Dele or Ndombele ahead of him. He should be a squad player.
 
Jurgen the German said:
The first one Bergwijn missed wasn’t easy but it was a good chance. The second was a one on one that you have to score if you play for a top team. I’m not letting Kane off the hook btw, it happens, everyone misses chances but Bergwijn had TWO and didn’t hit the target with either, that is poor IMO.

I do agree to an extent and would like to see us attack more at times. I’m more confused with how we played against palace than with how we set out tonight. Palace are a mid table side but we didn’t look interested in trying to score a second goal until they equalised. Liverpool are Anfield is a different kettle of fish. They haven’t lost a home game in over 3 years. I’m more annoyed that we lost to them with a lucky deflection and a set piece in stoppage time because we switched off and didn’t pick up their most dangerous player from set pieces then I am with how we played. We could have had a go at little more tbh but it’s more acceptable to me to play like that against them than it is against a team like Palace.
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I think that's a great post. I get what @Robspur12 is saying but looking at Jose's history we were only ever going to play one way tonight. Which in one way is a shame because as he said, we didn't do much to create our chances, their defence gave them to us. What would have happened if we went at them? But do that and there's a chance they'd have crucified us with their firepower and our suspect defenders.

Like you, I can't understand how we played on Sunday after taking the lead. I'd have expected us to dominate Palace until we had the game won and we completely lost control of the game second half.
 
Liverpool will always make mistakes at the back, it's the highest return way of playing them.

We don't normally make mistakes, this has been a bad week for that, a clean sheet is normally the least you expect.
 
Robspur12 said:
I don’t think Bergwyn should be in our starting 11. We have far better players than him, I would trust Dele or Ndombele ahead of him. He should be a squad player.
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I agree he shouldn’t a starter. Trouble is we don’t have much better right now. Moura is the definition of inconsistent as much as I like him, Lamela is injured too frequently, Bale is taking longer than we thought to get fully up to speed (perhaps unrealistic to expect him to be great immediately). But I’d expect a forward from a top club to take at least one of the chances that fell to Bergwijn. At the very least I’d expect him to hit the target once. Don’t think it is unreasonable to ask for that at the minimum.
 
Baleforce said:
Liverpool will always make mistakes at the back, it's the highest return way of playing them.

We don't normally make mistakes, this has been a bad week for that, a clean sheet is normally the least you expect.
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We do make mistakes mate. Dier is much improved and has done better than I expected but he still has a mistake in him as has proven for England this season and even at times for us which haven’t always been punished. Toby is still a relatively safe pair of hands but Father Time is undefeated and is catching up with Toby. How much of our great defensive record is down to how we play rather than how good both of them are? I’m not trying to knock them in just posing the question. If you put Toby and Dier and Liverpool or City’s back four I don’t think they would have the best defence in the league put it that way.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I think that's a great post. I get what @Robspur12 is saying but looking at Jose's history we were only ever going to play one way tonight. Which in one way is a shame because as he said, we didn't do much to create our chances, their defence gave them to us. What would have happened if we went at them? But do that and there's a chance they'd have crucified us with their firepower and our suspect defenders.

Like you, I can't understand how we played on Sunday after taking the lead. I'd have expected us to dominate Palace until we had the game won and we completely lost control of the game second half.
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Absolutely agree. Jose has always set up his teams to be cagey when going up against the best sides in the league. It doesn’t surprise me, having said that I would like to see a bit more intent. That is the same principle I follow when watching any sport. I find the England cricket team quite boring to watch at times as we can be too cautious.

As you say, Palace are nothing to be scared of. They have players that can hurt teams but they are not a great side. We battered Saudi Sportswashing Machine and went for the throat it was just bad finishing and awful VAR that cost us, it happens. I can live with battering a team and taking the game to them but not getting what you deserve. I don’t understand the safety first approach against teams we are superior to. You can’t turn it on and off like a tap when you feel like it.
 
Jurgen the German said:
We do make mistakes mate. Dier is much improved and has done better than I expected but he still has a mistake in him as has proven for England this season and even at times for us which haven’t always been punished. Toby is still a relatively safe pair of hands but Father Time is undefeated and is catching up with Toby. How much of our great defensive record is down to how we play rather than how good both of them are? I’m not trying to knock them in just posing the question. If you put Toby and Dier and Liverpool or City’s back four I don’t think they would have the best defence in the league put it that way.
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You could put Maldini and Baresi in those teams and they’d be exposed, that’s two managers who don’t know how to defend.

I mean, we don’t expect to make mistakes, before the game tonight I said I expected a to nil win, I was actually wrong but technically correct, they didn’t make a goal tonight, obviously we still gave them a couple but they didn’t come from anything they did tactically.

Before the Palace goal we hadn’t conceded in weeks, Hugo hadn’t make a save since Halloween, that’s our defence now, yes it’s down to tactics primarily, rather than personnel, but I consider that a strength not a weakness.
 
Robspur12 said:
I say that every season and they find a way to beat us. That’s why they are champions and we are not. It’s cold hard reality sadly. I genuinely thought we would be better against them today.
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Good post. They always seem to find a way , normally in the last few minutes, sometimes with brilliance , sometimes with what seems like outrageous luck or opposition errors but they get it done ,tine and time again. We seen to do the opposite and grasp defeat from the jaws of victory.
Jose still has some way to go to finally get us a winning mentality.
 
Baleforce said:
You could put Maldini and Baresi in those teams and they’d be exposed, that’s two managers who don’t know how to defend.

I mean, we don’t expect to make mistakes, before the game tonight I said I expected a to nil win, I was actually wrong but technically correct, they didn’t make a goal tonight, obviously we still gave them a couple but they didn’t come from anything they did tactically.

Before the Palace goal we hadn’t conceded in weeks, Hugo hadn’t make a save since Halloween, that’s our defence now, yes it’s down to tactics primarily, rather than personnel, but I consider that a strength not a weakness.
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Hugo hadn’t made a save since Halloween? What about the save he made from Mason Mount’s shot? I’m sure he has made a good few saves, that was simply the first save they came to mind. We have kept clean sheets but Lloris has definitely made saves along the way.
 
To me, it came down to which team took their chances. I felt Dier went down too easily for their second goal and a slight nudge on Toby a la Bolton/Nolan days.

At the end, we lost. We need to pick up and focus on the next game. This stadium has always been a tough one even for much better teams.

This result shouldnt be seen or used to judge the team's quality. We move on.
 
Robspur12 said:
I say that every season and they find a way to beat us. That’s why they are champions and we are not. It’s cold hard reality sadly. I genuinely thought we would be better against them today.
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Every season they find a way
That also includes when they were inferior to us
What does that say to you? it says we are horrendous there and even if we’re not we still don’t get wins (5 in our league history I believe)
So it’s nothing new
We’ve in and fight again
Win the next few games and it’s a pick me up
The players will be hurting
The manager is hurting
 
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