Dele Alli

[billyiddo]

And he also played CF too in that period

Yeah there was a bit of 'making do' at that time as the squad was a bit thin in quality - really hurt us Dembele Wanyama and Dier all going through their seperate problems at the same time, gutted our engine room essentially and with them all on the payroll still not an easy problem to solve

 

[Jurgen the German]

I'd wager his drop from being a top player consistently would coincide quite neatly with Sissoko and Winks becoming our first choice central midfield pairing - which funnily enough is probably the time when our CBs all started to look really poor as well. Not enough linking the midfield with attack meaning Alli and Eriksen dropping deeper and deeper to get on the ball and not enough protection, defensively. That midfield pairing has a lot to answer for imv. Anyway...

Not sure he was ever bad enough to be dropped, certainly didn't have much depth in those areas at that time to see an obvious solution waiting in the wings?

Not sure I agree. Don’t get me wrong Winks and Sissoko is a poor CM pairing and it doesn’t help Alli’s development but for me the biggest problem is he hasn’t improved his decision making or passing.

I think he needed a kick up the arse which probably wasn’t ever going to happen under Poch. If you’re going to make the case that he deserves a chance to prove himself again then the same goes for the players who were on the bench at the time when Alli was underperforming under Poch. The fact that we didn’t have better options is down to recruitment.

 

[billyiddo]

Not sure I agree. Don’t get me wrong Winks and Sissoko is a poor CM pairing and it doesn’t help Alli’s development but for me the biggest problem is he hasn’t improved his decision making or passing.

I think he needed a kick up the arse which probably wasn’t ever going to happen under Poch. If you’re going to make the case that he deserves a chance to prove himself again then the same goes for the players who were on the bench at the time when Alli was underperforming under Poch. The fact that we didn’t have better options is down to recruitment.

It doesn't change the fact there were no better options though?


I was trying to highlight the period that Alli was underperforming was more a team-wide issue than player specific, would be hard to argue that there were more than a couple of players who didn't regress during this time. In fact it's only really been recently that our players have started to find their rhythm again - Alli not having done so but then he's the one with the least game time, funny that.

 

[afsoc4life]

Unfortunately i don't think it is up to him.

As mentioned in my previous posts he done as much as anyone could in his last start and was then passed over in the next 2 games you'd expect to have seen him play in if management were interested in him as a player.

It is up to him. Recall Jose's early days, he was one of the first names on the team sheet. Dele played himself out of being a starter. It is up to him.

 

[afsoc4life]

.


He's a more creative final third player than Lo Celso from what we have seen so far but i can't really argue that currently other players are showing more - i just want to see him given a fair crack to earn his place because at the moment i don't see that happening. From there it's down to him to show himself to be either first XI or match day squad quality. But as it stands it looks like a good old freezing out

Dele Alli is not more creative than Lo Celso. We tried that experiment before even under Pochettino where Dele was asked to play the Erikson role. Dele is more like Muller in Bayern. Good movement off the ball and linkup with the forwards. Playmaking is not his strength.

 

[Bishop]

Dele Alli is not more creative than Lo Celso. We tried that experiment before even under Pochettino where Dele was asked to play the Erikson role. Dele is more like Muller in Bayern. Good movement off the ball and linkup with the forwards. Playmaking is not his strength.

Dele is a final touch player whether that is putting it in the net himself or making the last pass before the goal he is not a player who creates in a vacumn, he needs an Eriksen or similar to have already started the move.

It's a bit like him getting credit for 2 assists Vs Ludogorets when the first goal came via a deflected pass and for the second all the work, creativity and impetus came from Ndombele with Dele just laying the ball off at the end.

He didn't have a bad game at all but he really didn't do anything to change the managers opinion.

 

[Bullet]

Bill - if a player trains well and shows the right progress, he will get chances in the Europa League, simple as that.

 

[elltrev]

Dele Alli is not more creative than Lo Celso. We tried that experiment before even under Pochettino where Dele was asked to play the Erikson role. Dele is more like Muller in Bayern. Good movement off the ball and linkup with the forwards. Playmaking is not his strength.

Depends on your definition of creative. In terms of assists Dele is definitely ahead of Lo Celso, even taking into account when they’ve both played deeper. (I agree Dele is even better as a poacher than creator though).

 

[Bishop]

Depends on your definition of creative. In terms of assists Dele is definitely ahead of Lo Celso, even taking into account when they’ve both played deeper. (I agree Dele is even better as a poacher than creator though).

Lo Celso is a CM Dele is a SS. Their creativity comes in different spaces. Where Lo Celso excels Dele doesn't and vice versa.

 

[afsoc4life]

Depends on your definition of creative. In terms of assists Dele is definitely ahead of Lo Celso, even taking into account when they’ve both played deeper. (I agree Dele is even better as a poacher than creator though).

Creative is far more than assists. Aurier was one of our leaders in assists last season if I recall correctly. Would you say he is more creative than Lo Celso? Dele is more of a raumdeuter a la Muller.

 

[fernadez]

Seen plenty of times Jose praise a player when everyone wake else thought they were rubbish or talk down a player after a supposed great performance.

There is obviously more that he wants from Alli than just what he's providing. For me what's telling is the resurgence of Bergwin in the last few weeks. He's gone from 3rd/4th choice to league starter, has he contributed a goal or assist in those games? Or is he following his managers instructions down to the finest point and putting everything into training and matches.

Similar case could be made for Aurier and Ndombele. It's too easy to say Jose doesn't fancy him, if anything would make more sense to say Alli doesn't fancy playing for Mourinho.

 

[MKSpur]

Am I the only one who thinks dele is being punished for turning the tv off in the Amazon doc.
There was the second last episode when Jose put on a video for all the defensive errors and left it for the players.
A player turned it off and the cameras focussed on serge and dele.
Jose made a real song and dance about it and wanted to know who did it. He knew who did it clearly and wanted someone to hold their hand up which no one did
Dele hasn’t started a league game since
Random I know

I also thought him being filmed moaning about the long ball tactic after one of our matches could be a contributor to his current situation, ditto smirking when being told he was a lazy trainer. I thought initially Jose was giving him a kick up the arse to focus his attitude to training / doing more off the ball but unless he’s still trying to nutmeg everyone in training and heckling the team talks it has now reached a point where mourinho either just doesn’t rate him for our system or sees his attitude as one that cannot be tolerated. Whatever the ultimate reason is, every player in the dressing room must look at his situation and be very clear that there is to be no shirking off regardless of reputation / previous contribution.
The 18 month loan deal is an interesting proposition though, is Levy reluctant to give up on him but prepared to temporarily sacrifice him whilst Mourinho is in favour? Or just a case of giving him the opportunity to rebuild his reputation and transfer value?

 

[scaramanga]

I think you mean he doesn't mind defenders conceding possession so long as they get the ball away from the danger area.

Why else do we end up conceding 70% of possession against the top sides?

 

[billyiddo]

Dele Alli is not more creative than Lo Celso. We tried that experiment before even under Pochettino where Dele was asked to play the Erikson role. Dele is more like Muller in Bayern. Good movement off the ball and linkup with the forwards. Playmaking is not his strength.

As has already been stated Dele provides more assists - now that's not the sole measure of creativity of course but there's something to be said for someone who can find that final pass in the final third to create goal scoring opportunities rather than to contribute solely to build up play. And considering the lack of opportunities we create in games where we dominate possession it's obviously an attribute we currently lack. However I would agree that his main strengths are not creative, but in games where we are up against deep sitting opponents he may be the difference between struggling to 1-0s and a more comfortable scoreline.

And of course i appreciate that Lo Celso is a good player and has plenty of attributes you'd say he is ahead on atm - I'd have the 2 competing for the tip of the midfield 3 position atm against deeper opponents, with Lo Celso ahead and Dele with it to prove.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Creative is far more than assists. Aurier was one of our leaders in assists last season if I recall correctly. Would you say he is more creative than Lo Celso? Dele is more of a raumdeuter a la Muller.

The Muller comparison is a great one
He also had a period where they thought his Bayern career was over too
He worked hard and got a way back in and is rightly a legend there

 

[Kandi1977]

Tanguy says hello?

Tanguy changed his approach, mindset and upped his effort, and it was clear to see. Have you seen any change with Dele? I haven't. In the games he's played, it's still a lot of flicks and tricks, that don't work out, he's not quick, and not an effective presser.

 

[billyiddo]

Tanguy changed his approach, mindset and upped his effort, and it was clear to see. Have you seen any change with Dele? I haven't. In the games he's played, it's still a lot of flicks and tricks, that don't work out, he's not quick, and not an effective presser.

In his last game yes, undoubtedly i saw all those things

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Seeings as it's the ultra low bar of getting some starts in the Europa League that people are wanting to see him being afforded I'm not sure where the talk of being undroppable or a first XI comes from?

He's in the position of once again having to prove himself, which is fair enough now that we have a strong squad and he's been out of sorts for a while. I just don't actually see him being given a fair chance to do that at the moment.

I think if there was a willingness from management to see him earn his way back in then he would have been given the last 2 Europa games to build on the game v Ludogrets and try and put a run of form together - we can't sit here and say he needs to do this or improve that and then not give him the opportunity to do so. He showed a lot of the stuff people want to see from him in that last game, albeit against weak opposition - but you can only perform v what's in front of you. Where was that creativity in the final third v LASK and Antwerp? "Better/more suitable" players supposedly stepped in yet we didn't see anyone providing what he did and both games we were missing something in the final third.

So what are you concluding the problem is?

 

[Kandi1977]

The Muller comparison is a great one
He also had a period where they thought his Bayern career was over too
He worked hard and got a way back in and is rightly a legend there

They changed manager. That's when Muller came back.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

The original kick Dele got from Jose worked, he was our best player in those first few games. I'll be honest and say I can't quite remember what happened post those games for Deles star to fade so dramatically.

I'm not sure whether Jose is playing the longest long game ever

But the road back for Dele, set by Jose, it would appear is almost impossibly long.

It could simply be tactical, for where we are at the moment (similar to why he's reluctant to use Bale)

It could be Dele has tinkled Jose off. Regularly not in prem matchday squads and struggling to start in EL games would suggest it's beyond strictly footballing reasons.

But No dissenting voices from Dele?

Dele very very best (and almost only worthwhile position beyond 'doing a job') is very niche and we have all seen the set up that works best for him. That is not our setup at the moment and could reasonably be argued, never will be. Even from a formation point of view, a 433 discounts Dele completely. A 4231 gives him a chance but not if we play counter attack with that. I mean, if Jose doesn't see Dele fitting in tactically, why would he give him game time.

Of course whatever the reasoning, it is all a bit tragic as every single one of us has witnessed the magic Dele can dish up.