Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

he’s a football writer that knows other football writers and is a member of the FWA. Unlike a forum poster, he’s willing to admit what he doesn’t know, but he would know how these things work. he may be wrong. I hope he is!

but if you agree with me, and you accept that the groundwork is being laid for a change, do you or do you not think that has come from
a briefing?

As usual, I make one point - you answer another.

I said upfront, and an number of times now - IMO its the groundwork for change. I actually mentioned it a week or so ago when I felt the flavour of reports was changing.

So yes, I think there is some sort of briefing happening.

All I contested was the notion that the abundance of reports meant anything, because it simply doesnt. Literally the first sentence in my reply "While I agree it certainly feels that way, that different papers are running the story is not the reason why."


Seb is a bloody football 365 columnist, literally any monkey could do that job. He makes a living circulating content he picked up on twitter/newsnow and making comment about it.

While I agree with your little dig - there are plenty here who would never admit what they dont know - I also think there are plenty here more insightful and articulate than he is - with even less access to the club.

Point is - just because he is a football writer - doesnt mean he is actually any good or worth listening to (see also, almost any commentator or pundit).

 

[BrainOfLevy]

As usual, I make one point - you answer another.

I said upfront, and an number of times now - IMO its the groundwork for change. I actually mentioned it a week or so ago when I felt the flavour of reports was changing.

So yes, I think there is some sort of briefing happening.

All I contested was the notion that the abundance of reports meant anything, because it simply doesnt. Literally the first sentence in my reply "While I agree it certainly feels that way, that different papers are running the story is not the reason why."


Seb is a bloody football 365 columnist, literally any monkey could do that job. He makes a living circulating content he picked up on twitter/newsnow and making comment about it.

While I agree with your little dig - there are plenty here who would never admit what they dont know - I also think there are plenty here more insightful and articulate than he is - with even less access to the club.

Point is - just because he is a football writer - doesnt mean he is actually any good or worth listening to (see also, almost any commentator or pundit).

fudging hell man! It wasn’t a dig at you! It was a joke at forum life in general.

if you agree a briefing has happened, and your main point is that you think it has gone to one paper, rather than three, then I really don’t know what we’re arguing about.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

fudging hell man! It wasn’t a dig at you! It was a joke at forum life in general.

if you agree a briefing has happened, and your main point is that you think it has gone to one paper, rather than three, then I really don’t know what we’re arguing about.

I didnt say I took it personally. Though it seemed somewhat needless.

And Im not arguing, you keep replying to a very simple point - talking about something else - so Ive reiterated what I said originally.

Storm in a teacup, and a good example of why I generally avoid getting involved with you. We seem to have that effect on each other.

 

[Benny_Lad]

my point is that Seb is a football writer, a member of the FWA, and not someone that posts in forums all day. He will also know other football writers, and know how this game works.

I hope I’m wrong, but I can’t be arsed to argue with people as to whether or not the press are just printing lies or not. Sometimes even if we don’t see it, things happen. I think some briefing have happened from somewhere. If we get a strong denial from the Spurs side, I’d be delighted.

If he had something tangible surely we'd hear about it? Think of the likes!!

The whispers and gossip he speaks of are the ones put together by his peers that contain no hard facts. For me Its a slow news week. Nothing to feed off from the international week as all went well in Kosovo, no other big game this week. One look at the fixtures and its an easy target.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If he had something tangible surely we'd hear about it? Think of the likes!!

The whispers and gossip he speaks of are the ones put together by his peers that contain no hard facts. For me Its a slow news week. Nothing to feed off from the international week as all went well in Kosovo, no other big game this week. One look at the fixtures and its an easy target.

This 100%
They always need a big club to kick

 

[Favour]

Pochettino is now favourite to be the next boss sacked in the Premier League:

5/4 Mauricio Pochettino (in from 11/4)

11/4 Ralph Hasenhuttl

7/1 Unai Emery

9/1 Manuel Pellegrini

14/1 Marco Silva

25/1 Ole Gunnar Solskjaer

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Probably just a response to the paper talk and betting patterns, I tend not to read into odds as particularly indicative.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Because it could be considered an outlier (an abnormality), not actually unusual when looking at data.

A few people have said it's league position, I'm not sure I agree, there has been a lot of odd years for some of our competitors and we were simply more consistent.

Before everyone jumps on me, I'm not making any specific case re the data just answering your question.

2 points does make me think however, it should most people.

Yes but when taking an average, you either use all of the numbers or if looking to remove outliers then you remove both the best AND worst periods. So if removing that best year you also have to remove the worst year to obtain an average.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes but when taking an average, you either use all of the numbers or if looking to remove outliers then you remove both the best AND worst periods. So if removing that best year you also have to remove the worst year to obtain an average.

You an element of statistical process control

 

[Finney Is Back]

We are notorious for paying an incentive based pay
They perform and get results they get more money
I think the report focus on the base pay rather than what we actually pay the players

The numbers all end up in our published figures as wages though (and our wage bill is hugely short of our perceived peers, while being rather similar to the lower ranked clubs wanting to usurp us)

 

[Finney Is Back]

Everyone needs to calm down, a question was asked, i.e. "why remove the year", I answered, it is a standard practice "In statistics, an outlier is an observation point that is distant from other observations."

You make a point that then the scope of data is insufficient, people can chose to agree or not. I could argue that it's not 5 data points, but 5 groups with 38 data points each (individual games), plus the comparison data of previous years. The argument could be made that including (the point of outlier removal) the 20% biases the data in exactly the opposite way

What that data shows for me is Poch did have a truly exceptional year, but the remainder were not the miracle/overperformance it is sometimes made out to be, but again opinions

It’s not standard practice in statistics to only remove only one end of the outliers.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Alderweireld, Eriksen, Rose, Vertonghen and I presume Wanyama? Scraping the barrel there, he hasnt been first team fit, let alone level, for what? 2 seasons?

Eriksen-sen-sen, Rose, Alderweireld all have perfectly adequate alternatives in place. Committed alternatives at that.

Vertonghen is the only real hole in that, and while we could be playing someone like Tanganga I dont think we need to, IMO Vertonghens been playing ok.

And heres the catch. We dont need to discard all of the players who want out. We need to discard the ones that are apparently distracting the group and bringing it down.

Remember Modric? If these players were all operating at the levels he did in his last season there would be no complaints at all.

What have those guys done? Well, supposedly, they are responsible for how badly the group is playing right now. What with their "distracting" and stuff.

IF there is anything to that, the answer is very simple. Get shot. Everyone is better off.

Squad morale? Well lets frame this a little bit.

Is it a squad of elite sportsmen, all striving for success? Or is it the little orphan boys jolly fun social club?

I tend to think the former myself, and I tend to think - no matter how friendly the players are - if one (or more) is stinking up the whole season for the team, bringing everyone down, and being all distracting - then professional pride would come before personal connection.

Morale in a team is stronger when the leadership sets the standards and everybody knows the levels they should attain.

I dont believe in this idea of them all being super best friends who will sulk and pout if their underachieving mate gets penalised for being a turd.

We cant sell them right now. So the best thing is the manager fudges them off so everyone else can move on.

Where would they go? Honestly I dont care. Id be quite happy to send Eriksen back to Ajax to train his contract out ready for his next move. Matters not one bit to me at all.

What does matter is the manager having a vision, having focus, and making sure he has players who can say the same. If he needs to strip the bad apples out of the squad then he should, and IMO the squad is better off for it. Everyone on the same page, everyone striving for the best, the team version 2.0 coming into fruition, and no "distractions".

I don’t think Modric was going in to the last year of his contract and just a few months away from being able to sign a pre-contract deal was he?

 

[parklane1]

Personally I think it should be down to if Pochettino *really* wants to stay.

If he doesn't want to be at the club then I see no alternative other than to let him leave.
However, if he is fully motivated we should let him rebuild.

)

I agree with this.

 

[Finney Is Back]

If we are out fought by West Ham, that would indeed be very damning.

I think Scara raises a fair point. I dont think West Ham is "do or die", in the sense of "lose it and youre fired", but really every manager has a last game at some point - dont they? And West Ham could well be Pochs last.

We’ve been getting outfought by West Ham for the last 30 odd years!

 

[Finney Is Back]

We didn't play to 120% against Arsenal, 80% at best. So even in our cup final we put up a poor spring against and pretty dismal arsenal side.

We've also Poch teams bat West ham away like a fly when we're up for it. The 4-1 springs to mind but yes we are no w ere near that kind of form for various reasons.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

I dunno 2-2 away from home to a team above us in the league is better than our average this season and a better outcome than last year.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Its been reported as £12.5m for the last week or so. A much more realistic figure Id imagine.

Other reports that he and we have discussed exit strategy.

Personally Id expect a "by mutual consent" thing. I dont think Poch is the type to try and screw us, and I dont think we would try and mess him either - most likely if they come to the conclusion it just isnt working theyll find an agreeable/amicable way to part.

£12.5 million just to Poch? How much for the rest of his coaching team I wonder?.... half of that between them?

 

[Finney Is Back]

fudging hell man! It wasn’t a dig at you! It was a joke at forum life in general.

if you agree a briefing has happened, and your main point is that you think it has gone to one paper, rather than three, then I really don’t know what we’re arguing about.

I think the briefing has gone to numerous (trusted) journalists.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I don’t think Modric was going in to the last year of his contract and just a few months away from being able to sign a pre-contract deal was he?

He wasnt that short on contract, but had actively gone on strike and tried to force a move and began the season with plenty of bad will against him and his actions.

And then he performed his little heart out, earned a better move than he originally wanted, and went with our blessing despite it being clear all along he was off at the end of the season.

We’ve been getting outfought by West Ham for the last 30 odd years!

Not quite, but yes. They regularly raise their level beyond what we do.

Problem is, in the current climate, that would be even worse than usual.

£12.5 million just to Poch? How much for the rest of his coaching team I wonder?.... half of that between them?

Was unclear. Generally pieces speak of the manager, in practice its the management. Im unsure if the intent was for the whole deal or just Poch.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think the briefing has gone to numerous (trusted) journalists.

I agree. There seems to be the mentality of ‘papers lie, they just want clicks’ and it is over stating one part of their incentive while completely ignoring how these things work, because we don’t see what goes on as fans.

2 weeks ago, even though we were in bad form there was barely a single story on Poch being under pressure. Now there is. Something has happened, I think the wheels are in motion. And if it’s the clubs idea to protect themselves when the axe falls, their incentive is to make sure it gets around as many people as possible rather than not, so they’d use multiple journos they trust.

 

[Finney Is Back]

He wasnt that short on contract, but had actively gone on strike and tried to force a move and began the season with plenty of bad will against him and his actions.

And then he performed his little heart out, earned a better move than he originally wanted, and went with our blessing despite it being clear all along he was off at the end of the season.

So more a Danny Rose situation than Jan, Toby or Eriksen then in some ways?

This is also where I felt that Redknapp was a good manger. People overlook that Man management side, but there wouldn’t be many managers who would let their centre half not train all week and then give a thumbs up on the Friday whether they could play at the weekend for example.