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The youth players/on-loan thread 2014-2015

Gutter Boy said:
England or Germany - it's not the hardest decision to make is it! World cup winners with an outstanding grass roots infrastructure, versus a rapidly declining nation with a youth football system still stuck in the 80s.

The worst thing is that we were in a comparable situation in 2004. Germany chose major structural reform, whilst we kept our head in the sand and still have it buried there.
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You clearly have absolutely no idea about the youth football system in England these days.
 
Gutter Boy said:
But in Germany it's all part of a central strategic framework, developed by Klinsmann and Low a decade ago. All clubs play their part working towards a common goal (producing players capable of winning the WC for Germany). They have ingrained philosophies, systems, measures etc., that permeate all parts.

It's not so much the development of the individuals from progressive clubs that will be affected. It's that their peer group will be much poorer. They'll go through youth football and end up in the senior side alongside the same old cloggers who thrive in our football culture.




I'm a bit hesitant to put much faith in youth level results. England traditionally overachieve in youth football because they value physicality over technique - basically young Ryan Shawcrosses kick lumps out of the young Messis.

Until I see a squad full of players as technical as the likes of Barkley, Shaw, Sterling, Kane, I'll remain sceptical that we are making genuine progress, and that these aren't isolated cases (like the Hoddles, Gascogines, Beardsleys and Sheringhams of the past have been).
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I suggest you actually watch some of the younger England age groups before you make your comments showing your pre-conceived bias (I think this is also the same bias that makes you always want an unproven foreign player over a quality proven English player). The England youth setup has changed drastically over the last few years. The only barrier left there was the under 21s where (thank GHod) Pearce is now gone and we have a good man in place of him. I think the last barrier in place now is to ensure that our best under 21s all play for the England under 21 team in the competetive tournaments. This may allow a whole group to come through together, getting used to playing together and (more importantly) winning together. From what I have been hearing in recent weeks it seems this is starting to be pushed.
 
Gutter Boy said:
But in Germany it's all part of a central strategic framework, developed by Klinsmann and Low a decade ago. All clubs play their part working towards a common goal (producing players capable of winning the WC for Germany). They have ingrained philosophies, systems, measures etc., that permeate all parts.
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German clubs might well all have a shared, excellent youth development philosophy but since he is already at a club with an excellent youth development philosophy, he's fine where he is. And I repeat, playing senior football for the German national team will not materially affect his development. Firstly because it will be at his club, rather than with his international team, that his development is determined and secondly because he is unlikely to become a senior international until he has already done most of the trainable development that he is likely to do.

It's not so much the development of the individuals from progressive clubs that will be affected. It's that their peer group will be much poorer. They'll go through youth football and end up in the senior side alongside the same old cloggers who thrive in our football culture.

I'm a bit hesitant to put much faith in youth level results. England traditionally overachieve in youth football because they value physicality over technique - basically young Ryan Shawcrosses kick lumps out of the young Messis.
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Actually, England teams have generally underachieved in the younger age groups. It's only now that they are starting to achieve consistently good results against the stronger footballing countries. And they are doing so by playing better technical football than their opponents. I have to say yet again, your opinions seem to be based on ignorance as to what is actually happening at youth level and an over reliance on stale stereotypes.

Until I see a squad full of players as technical as the likes of Barkley, Shaw, Sterling, Kane, I'll remain sceptical that we are making genuine progress, and that these aren't isolated cases (like the Hoddles, Gascogines, Beardsleys and Sheringhams of the past have been).
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Fair enough. But in that case, you should stick to talking about the senior team and possibly the U21 team rather than about age groups that you don't follow.
 
Finney Is Back said:
THFC tried to bring Sterling to the club on several occasions (including when he went to Liverpool).
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I actually know someone that knows Sterling and apparently despite the whole "children" situation he is a really lovely guy.

As for English youth football I know how much it has changed, knowing a few of the Brighton youth coaches and the coaching that the players get and the special help they receive when on day release from school. Football clubs in this country are putting serious effort into youth football and as others have said we are at youth level far more technical then we have ever been and more so then other countries.

It is the last final step of getting these players into premiership first teams that is the final hurdle to jump.

Pleased that we at Tottenham have some good ones because I think this is the path to go down and this new super scout we have signed was prepared to let Chambers go to Arsenal because he believed they had better in their academy. So maybe similar will happen here.

I do hope Poch is given time and the talk that a new emphasis on youth home grown players pleases me, be they English or from where ever.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Most clubs in Europe will be looking at Tielemans. Don't think we have much of a chance with that one.
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I think he is the sort of player we could get if we really went for him.... A player like him would be happy to move to a better league for a much bigger pay cheque and also be confident that he would be actually playing in the team.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think he is the sort of player we could get if we really went for him.... A player like him would be happy to move to a better league for a much bigger pay cheque and also be confident that he would be actually playing in the team.
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I can see where you're coming from, but honestly, Tielemans could probably start for the likes of Dortmund, Atletico and perhaps even Juve and not look out of place. So for us to come in and offer him first-team football and a big pay-cheque relative to what he currently gets won't do us much good if all these clubs do it too.

For what it's worth, we should be looking at Pierre Hojberg. Young, plays in the same deep-lying position as Tielemans, is unhappy and wants out of Bayern because he hasn't gotten enough first-team football. Buddy of Eriksen in the national team, and (tick in Levy's all important box) he is likely to be cheap.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I can see where you're coming from, but honestly, Tielemans could probably start for the likes of Dortmund, Atletico and perhaps even Juve and not look out of place. So for us to come in and offer him first-team football and a big pay-cheque relative to what he currently gets won't do us much good if all these clubs do it too.

For what it's worth, we should be looking at Pierre Hojberg. Young, plays in the same deep-lying position as Tielemans, is unhappy and wants out of Bayern because he hasn't gotten enough first-team football. Buddy of Eriksen in the national team, and (tick in Levy's all important box) he is likely to be cheap.
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Eriksen and Modric could have played for better clubs too. If we wanted Tielemans, we'd sign him.
 
Mumorn said:
Eriksen and Modric could have played for better clubs too. If we wanted Tielemans, we'd sign him.
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Extremely unlikely imo, but we'll see which way it goes. I don't think our pulling power is particularly strong these days, for a variety of reasons.
 
Brentford climbed up to 4th tonight after beating Fulham. Pritchard played the whole match and probably got a decent amount of key passes in. He works hard off the ball and like all the players there presses well in an organised group. My one problem is that he seems to be on a different wavelength to some of the other players there, combining well with some but not with others. He did pick up some good positions but was ignored quite often. Similarly when in possession he was looking for certain runs that players weren't making.
 
Watched that game, didn't think he was great. You can see he's got something, he's not one of these big lumps running round kicking people every chance they get, he's got ability, but not much came off for him tonight.

How old is he? Are we talking 18 or 21?
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Watched that game, didn't think he was great. You can see he's got something, he's not one of these big lumps running round kicking people every chance they get, he's got ability, but not much came off for him tonight.

How old is he? Are we talking 18 or 21?
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21. I think the same as you. Hopefully he'll get better as the season progresses, but atm I'm not convinced by him in this side.
 
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