Tactics Thread

[the dza]

And in defence, they might look something like this?


Draw your tactical diagram with this11.com

 

[chancer]

I'll bump this for discussions that are starting about where we go now with tactics/formations etc.

 

[VolSpur]

Sorry I posted this in the wrong thread earlier but,

I think if we're looking to go with something that suits the players we have now it's got to be something like a 4-1-2-3



or a 4-4-2 diamond (de Boer's Ajax)



and you can't tell me that midfield 3/4 is too light when it's got more defensive capabilities than l'a*** who currently sit 1st in the table...

 

[africanspurs]

i like the idea of the diamond at this stage but dont like the idea of freezing out lennon and townsend

 

[africanspurs]

http://this11.com/topics/add/abF24xLacO

yeah, no idea how to paste a picture in here but that would be my team with eriksen ghosting inwards

i feel like lamela will have a new lease of life with a new coach, almost like starting from scratch ....if not then play defoe right next to solly

lamela wouldnt be playing in the hole though, but more drifting across the entire back line still operating as a wing forward.

edit:- also dont know how to draw arrows on that thing

 

[diego_maradona]

i like the idea of the diamond at this stage but dont like the idea of freezing out lennon and townsend

Is it a case of a different formation when we use Townsend and Lennon? A different style all together. Two chalk on boots wingers, Townsend left, Lennon right, a throwback to Bale and Lennon on the wings, stretching the pitch and making it a lot bigger?

With more technical players, Lamela, Holtby, Eriksen, Siggy they are a little more fluid perhaps.

or go with the old lopsided/wonky, one orthodox winger and one inside forward/winger


I'd like to know if there are plans to include Ade once again

 

[monkeybarry]

i like the idea of the diamond at this stage but dont like the idea of freezing out lennon and townsend

i was thinking our squad is set up for a 4-4-2 diamond, but i don't think it has to come at the expense of Lennon;

the player "in the hole" will have a bit of a free role and Lennon could drift out wide in that role and use his pace to attack whatever space is available.
his short passing is actually very underrated too

IF we played this formation, I would play Eriksen / Lennon as AMC and then upfront you have Defoe/Soldado and Lamela. Lamela will naturally look to link up and in a fluid system (don't think AVB!) you have the Defoe/Soldado playing off the shoulder and the other striker and AMC moving around a bit more and dropping into space, almost becoming interchangeable.

of course you also have the full back attacking the space down the flanks, to the CM's and AMC can also pass out to them and they then have three targets in the box (striker, 2nd striker and AMC attacking from deep)

 

[Raziel]

Without Lennon & Townsend the midfield is too slow.

I think we need the pace, we need to quit the two or more DMs option (have Sandro cover back 4, everyone else more attacking).

I'd like to see two forward, either outright, or a Paulino/Lamela supporting the striker, especially at home.

 

[africanspurs]

i was thinking our squad is set up for a 4-4-2 diamond, but i don't think it has to come at the expense of Lennon;

the player "in the hole" will have a bit of a free role and Lennon could drift out wide in that role and use his pace to attack whatever space is available.
his short passing is actually very underrated too

IF we played this formation, I would play Eriksen / Lennon as AMC and then upfront you have Defoe/Soldado and Lamela. Lamela will naturally look to link up and in a fluid system (don't think AVB!) you have the Defoe/Soldado playing off the shoulder and the other striker and AMC moving around a bit more and dropping into space, almost becoming interchangeable.

of course you also have the full back attacking the space down the flanks, to the CM's and AMC can also pass out to them and they then have three targets in the box (striker, 2nd striker and AMC attacking from deep)

Amazing stuff

essentially you and i have the same philosophy on this system.

Infact you've just reminded me of a game that adds in the pro column for lennon playing narrow or in the hole

the chelsea FA cup game under martin Jol.....lennon was a monster in the first half in that role...Jol then decided to change the formation and sit back ...then it was curtains for all.

sigh...real glory missed



i agree with that idea of yours the only issue is the one of width....its all well and good lennon attacking any space around...but then the congestion initially would nullify our capacity to stretch the oppostion AT WILL, would it not?

if you have a devastating wide man in the hole......in the diamond the width is alsmot completely provided by the full backs....lennon drifting out to the space on the side...in my visual play....tends to just shift the focus of the entire pitch to whatever direction he goes to....it wont stretch the pitch...everyone would just verge in the direction lennon is in now

it would give us threat in the flanks but the option to quickly stretch the oppostion could be lost.....as opposed to having a player thats already stretching the opposition AND THEN comes into the hole

i like your formation just as much as mine though

 

[africanspurs]

Without Lennon & Townsend the midfield is too slow.

I think we need the pace, we need to quit the two or more DMs option (have Sandro cover back 4, everyone else more attacking).

I'd like to see two forward, either outright, or a Paulino/Lamela supporting the striker, especially at home.

hmm, i dont know..i think thats an archaic notion IMO.

It isnt about pace of the players..its about how fast you get the ball into the location you want it to be...thats down to positioning / anticipation and awareness.... its a brains thing

something i feel eriksen, lamela, and holtby have a lot of

edit:- i also think its naive to think that sandro can hold the fort all by himself...even though he is probably the only player one earth that can do that

if you have just sandro there and the rest more attacking then and less defensive significantly then i think we will get picked apart on the counter

if you have just sandro covering then leave the full backs behind and have them overlapping as a secondary option

 

[africanspurs]

how did that picture get on to my post?

 

[diego_maradona]

how did that picture get on to my post?

I did it

 

[Raziel]

hmm, i dont know..i think thats an archaic notion IMO.

It isnt about pace of the players..its about how fast you get the ball into the location you want it to be...thats down to positioning / anticipation and awareness.... its a brains thing

something i feel eriksen, lamela, and holtby have a lot of

edit:- i also think its naive to think that sandro can hold the fort all by himself...even though he is probably the only player one earth that can do that

if you have just sandro there and the rest more attacking then and less defensive significantly then i think we will get picked apart on the counter

if you have just sandro covering then leave the full backs behind and have them overlapping as a secondary option

It's quick players and/or quick passing, I agree, I just believe the things that have worked best with Spurs over the last 2-3 years are

- Use of width and pace on the outsides, especially on counter (Bale/Lennon, now possibly Townsend/Lennon)
- possession and smart passing from the middle (Carrick/Modric/VDV -> Eriksen/Holtby)
- DM covering the back 4 (Wilson, Parker, now Sandro)

My view would be

- Sandro doesn't have to "hold the fort" if in general we keep the possession part of our game (opponent doesn't hurt you if they don't have the ball)
- We need the width and some pace to get behind opponents, otherwise they congest the middle, we have seen this under both Harry/AVB
- Erikesen/Holtby/Lamela somebody has to play higher up the pitch, that quick pass needs to be in dangerous areas
- at home, we should go two up front

edit* maybe not as complicated a view or plan, but simple ideas to leverage

 

[africanspurs]

I did it

Thank you.

Much appreciated

 

[monkeybarry]

Amazing stuff

essentially you and i have the same philosophy on this system.

Infact you've just reminded me of a game that adds in the pro column for lennon playing narrow or in the hole

the chelsea FA cup game under martin Jol.....lennon was a monster in the first half in that role...Jol then decided to change the formation and sit back ...then it was curtains for all.

sigh...real glory missed



i agree with that idea of yours the only issue is the one of width....its all well and good lennon attacking any space around...but then the congestion initially would nullify our capacity to stretch the oppostion AT WILL, would it not?

if you have a devastating wide man in the hole......in the diamond the width is alsmot completely provided by the full backs....lennon drifting out to the space on the side...in my visual play....tends to just shift the focus of the entire pitch to whatever direction he goes to....it wont stretch the pitch...everyone would just verge in the direction lennon is in now

it would give us threat in the flanks but the option to quickly stretch the oppostion could be lost.....as opposed to having a player thats already stretching the opposition AND THEN comes into the hole

i like your formation just as much as mine though

i think that all depends on phases of play;

offensively with the ball, playing through the centre you would want Lennon to either "buzz around" in the that space behind the striker, going not wider than, say, the middle third (looking at the pitch length ways) of the pitch.
now, depending on the oppositons tactics and state of the game, you either one or both full backs pushing forwards.
if its both, Lennon (or Eriksen) stays centrally.
if its one, he can either stay where is or pull wide. conversely, the "2nd stiker" can pull wide, creating a gap for the AMC to fill or a for CM running from deep to burst into (with the CM playing the ball too and receiving it back from, the AMC.)

there is also the option to switch the play, from CM, AMC or whoever has filled the space on the wing to switch the ball out to the other wing (the one the full back is now on), who can then play from there. put a cross in, attack the oppo fb or pass to someone on the edge of the area.

the great thing with Lennon being there is that, if the move breaks down and leaves the full back high up the pitch, he has the awareness to get back and defend if needs be. Eriksen would give a different type of option in that AMC role, but still an effective one i think.

it would actually be quite like the goons play tbh, although they tend not to use the full backs so preferring to have the midfielders interchange in midfield (something which, when you have a squad with many similar midfielders (as the Goons do and so do we) is important)

 

[africanspurs]

A man after my own heart, i can see you've thought this through, just a few questions

offensively with the ball, playing through the centre you would want Lennon to either "buzz around" in the that space behind the striker, going not wider than, say, the middle third (looking at the pitch length ways) of the pitch.
now, depending on the oppositons tactics and state of the game, you either one or both full backs pushing forwards.
if its both, Lennon (or Eriksen) stays centrally.
if its one, he can either stay where is or pull wide. conversely, the "2nd stiker" can pull wide, creating a gap for the AMC to fill or a for CM running from deep to burst into (with the CM playing the ball too and receiving it back from, the AMC.)

In this scenario lennon would have to be a fascilitator of sorts, an actual creative type AM...not just one that receives the ball breaking the defensive line at speed. this is something i havent seen lennon do too often.

The enouraging thing is that if there is one thing i rate soldado in , its being able to play a one two with someone..for that reason ......it might just work that lennon and soldado could form a relationship of sorts

another thing is even though you have the second striker pulling wide...which i am a fan off anyway, would the option of actually stretching the pitch be there?

am not talking about gap creation for technical / intelligent players to exploit...but more then kind f stretching that will allow less technical and intelligent teams like ours the room to be able to operate more freely on attack

if lennon/eriksen were playing in the am role and became the ones to pull wide...i dont see that passage of play actually stretching the opposition......and if there is one person that wont switch the play quick enough its lennon. saying that......if the CM's could do it...they would have to switch it, as you say, to the other full back.....the full back has space to operate in, but does he stretch the opposition? (the reason i have my doubts about this is that in the amount of time it will take to create that scenario (AM wide, switch to opposite FB) , the opposition can regroup)

there is also the option to switch the play, from CM, AMC or whoever has filled the space on the wing to switch the ball out to the other wing (the one the full back is now on), who can then play from there. put a cross in, attack the oppo fb or pass to someone on the edge of the area.

addressed already.

i dont know if thats actually going to stretch the opposition as opposed to create room for the FB to operate in

the great thing with Lennon being there is that, if the move breaks down and leaves the full back high up the pitch, he has the awareness to get back and defend if needs be. Eriksen would give a different type of option in that AMC role, but still an effective one i think.

thats a lengthy track back ........you dont want the CM doing that as opposed to the AM?

i agree that lennon is amazing at defending but thats asking too much. for the AM to be the FB's cover is insanely difficult and jeopardizes the positions the AM is willing to take i would imagine.

it would actually be quite like the goons play tbh, although they tend not to use the full backs so preferring to have the midfielders interchange in midfield (something which, when you have a squad with many similar midfielders (as the Goons do and so do we) is important)

actualy the goons positionally use thier full backs a great deal HISTORICALLY under wenger. recently though less so. but their full backs are positionally and tactically very present in almost everything they do.

the timing of their full backs is extremely important too to how they play

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Id go with either a wonky 4-4-2 with Lennon on right, Lamella drifting in (essentially a free role) from left, Sandro as DM and Eriksen as AM, Ade and Soldado up front.

Or

A 4-4-2 with Lennon on right, Townsend on Left, Sandro as DM, Eriksen as AM, Ade up top as a target man and Lamella in the number 10/VDV role.

I think young Erik needs a run to see if he's actually any use or not.

 

[africanspurs]

Id go with either a wonky 4-4-2 with Lennon on right, Lamella drifting in (essentially a free role) from left, Sandro as DM and Eriksen as AM, Ade and Soldado up front.

Or

A 4-4-2 with Lennon on right, Townsend on Left, Sandro as DM, Eriksen as AM, Ade up top as a target man and Lamella in the number 10/VDV role.

I think young Erik needs a run to see if he's actually any use or not.

You dont think both are too attacking and could leave us exposed?

 

[thfcsteff]

I am graphically-challenged, but below is the side I would like to see (providing everyone is fully fit) for the coming games.



Lloris


Walker
Chiriches
Vertonghen
Ekotto

Lennon
Sandro
Dembele
Townsend

Ade

Soldado


I would like to make sure Lamela, Tom Carroll, Holtby, Kaboul and Sigurdsson got some good time in there too. Defoe is moot for me, love him but perhaps not enough anymore. If Paulinho could man up a bit more, I'd have him straight in ahead of Dembele, but for now, no. Rose is a fringe player for me at best.

Another option would be:


Lloris


Kaboul
Vertonghen
Chiriches

Sandro

Lennon
Holtby
Eriksen
Lamela

Ade

Soldado



This would be exciting to watch, Sandro can cover the back three, Lennon and Lamela can cover when a transition occurs, when we're attacking Holtby is the aggression and Eriksen the architect, Ade floats nicely and Soldado ends up with service either from wide positions OR through the channels when he makes his early move (Eriksen and to a lesser extent, Holtby, finding him)...

 

[africanspurs]

i just wanted to bump this

i am getting a little excited

i think sherwood is actually trying to bring back the wonky or do a diamond

i think he might have figured out how to get the best out of our two record signings in that case

we just ****ing needed lennon to play and capoue / sandro in one of those two Cm spots and we would have been ****ing golden!!!

Lennon must be injured..sigh...damn

i think we are going to play decent in this game v the saints....

a little exposed and open defensively though i have to say. but if what i am thinking is right and we have a lot of the ball we should be able to counter the lack of defensive prescence.

finally, looking forward to seeing solly and lamela once again.

really think they will perform better now...faster tempo for lamela...and support for solly