Coronavirus

[SpurMeUp]

Not saying it’s “ok”, but in one of the first live Q and A they said this was the initial plan but there wasn’t a single machine available to buy in the world, and no other way to test. Therefore the strategy changed to inventing a new way of testing and manufacturing this In bulk.

So I guess the question is at what time was this realised (I.e if none available in Dec/Jan then more understandable than if they tinkled around until late March)

Hence my point that the bigger error seems to be not having this stuff just in case, and erroneously assuming that we could buy it if needed (when the whole world also wants the same + America making it law that PPE cannot leave the country etc.) Plus as you say, if we didn’t have it then we should have got all out as soon as Wuhan reported this.

What you are saying then is this government didn’t act quickly or decisively enough.

Moreover, there will be ways to test with existing equipment or manually. There are 3 machines in the UK so we can’t test does not cut it. Train people to conduct tests without machines, find all machines in universities, labs, and pharma companies; and get it moving. Doesn’t matter if it takes 5000 people working day and night to do it.

...or accept we only have 3 machines, while thousands die and the economy decreases day by day with years of impact.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[elyid]

What you are saying then is this government didn’t act quickly or decisively enough.

Moreover, there will be ways to test with existing equipment or manually. There are 3 machines in the UK so we can’t test does not cut it. Train people to conduct tests without machines, find all machines in universities, labs, and pharma companies; and get it moving. Doesn’t matter if it takes 5000 people working day and night to do it.

...or accept we only have 3 machines, while thousands die and the economy decreases day by day with years of impact.

Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Good point. This prompted me to investigate further. Seems that they've since got around the machine issue as with trains operators can use a regular PCR machine (whatever that is, idk but something to do with replicating the virus and the UK has 500 or so).

From the Gov website the problem then seems to be that the materials needed to run it aren't open source:

The challenge is the global shortage of materials needed to run the end-to-end testing process at full capacity, particularly the reagents that help to ensure high levels of sensitivity and specificity for these tests, the swabs with which they have been validated, and the challenge of matching specific materials to the different machines available. Most of these high-tech testing platforms are 'closed', which means that these materials can only be supplied by the same manufacturer as the machine. We are therefore dependent on global manufacturers to very rapidly increase the quantity of their specific reagents and kits. We are working in partnership with them to increase supply of these proprietary reagents, maximising the UK's global allocation, and creating a sustainable supply of these components, including setting up local manufacturing bases here in the UK.

-

I'm just kind of pointing out some info with these posts, I'm not disagreeing with you or saying the Gov have been organised in any way at all.

I would say they encountered problems that needed time to solve, but this could have been mitigated by looking into this back in January.

Agree it's crazy.

 

[Grays_1890]

I would say they encountered problems that needed time to solve, but this could have been mitigated by looking into this back in January.

Agree it's crazy.

Major issue here and I go back to it that this was all made worse due to inactivity from patient zero and a case of smoke and mirrors that made this harder. At the start of Jan to the 20th there were claims by China of no spread and the disease being “over” a two week period of “no reported cases” that only got rebuffed when someone from Wuhan was stopped in Thailand showing signs of a virus. For me that kind of misinformation or propaganda which has caused thousands of deaths needs approaching.

 

[Grays_1890]

Official timeline of mid Jan, a clusterfudge caused by a bunch of crap data

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1248605467573510147

If there is genuinely a lack of supply surely rationing has to happen?

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Major issue here and I go back to it that this was all made worse due to inactivity from patient zero and a case of smoke and mirrors that made this harder. At the start of Jan to the 20th there were claims by China of no spread and the disease being “over” a two week period of “no reported cases” that only got rebuffed when someone from Wuhan was stopped in Thailand showing signs of a virus. For me that kind of misinformation or propaganda which has caused thousands of deaths needs approaching.

Yes i agree and also they criticized the British government for banning flights from there. I as you know was out there at the time hence the bloody British airways thread.

The Chinese have a lot of questions to answer over this

Our government when this became a thing should have acted quicker but that is easy with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[scaramanga]

What you are saying then is this government didn’t act quickly or decisively enough.

Moreover, there will be ways to test with existing equipment or manually. There are 3 machines in the UK so we can’t test does not cut it. Train people to conduct tests without machines, find all machines in universities, labs, and pharma companies; and get it moving. Doesn’t matter if it takes 5000 people working day and night to do it.

...or accept we only have 3 machines, while thousands die and the economy decreases day by day with years of impact.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

If testing requires a machine and there are only three, then we can only test on 3 machines.

If this country only owns three of them then I suspect there isn't the knowledge here to build them.

 

[elyid]

Official timeline of mid Jan, a clusterfudge caused by a bunch of crap data

I hadn't seen that. Almost unbelievable that was less than 3 months ago.

Also raises the issue of what is the point of the WHO? They don't appear to have been focussed on gaining the truth at any stage of this.

The problem is these days almost everything is about money and keeping certain people happy. Usually it stays partially hidden, but a pandemic is one thing that won't go away with a lot of BS.

 

[Hootnow]

Official timeline of mid Jan, a clusterfudge caused by a bunch of crap data

This is mid Jan. We still had ample time to act when the gravity of the situation became obvious.

As for the human to human transmission tweet by the WHO (which I also have criticised), this has then subsequently come out:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...smission-risk-in-january-despite-trump-claims

So the WHO were warning of multiple different routes of transmission, of an as of yet unknown virus, as early as mid January. To the actual governments that could respond to it.

People also can't have it both ways with these supra-national organisations. They're criticised constantly for getting involved when they shouldn't, for wasting money, for being irrlevent and are consistently ignored when the great powers actually want to do something.

People can't then turn around and blame them as a convenient spacegoat afterwards, when they're rarely listened to anyway.

 

[Hootnow]

If there is genuinely a lack of supply surely rationing has to happen?

How would you feel about seeing a patient with Covid-19 without appropriate protection? Particularly if you are having to do an aerosol-generating procedure?

 

[Grays_1890]

This is mid Jan. We still had ample time to act when the gravity of the situation became obvious.

As for the human to human transmission tweet by the WHO (which I also have criticised), this has then subsequently come out:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...smission-risk-in-january-despite-trump-claims

So the WHO were warning of multiple different routes of transmission, of an as of yet unknown virus, as early as mid January. To the actual governments that could respond to it.

People also can't have it both ways with these supra-national organisations. They're criticised constantly for getting involved when they shouldn't, for wasting money, for being irrlevent and are consistently ignored when the great powers actually want to do something.

People can't then turn around and blame them as a convenient spacegoat afterwards, when they're rarely listened to anyway.

I think they are open to criticism as it seems is Boris. Let’s treat everyone with the same standard at least

 

[SpurMeUp]

If testing requires a machine and there are only three, then we can only test on 3 machines.

If this country only owns three of them then I suspect there isn't the knowledge here to build them.

It's like saying traveling requires a car. It is faster to drive than walk, but if you have no car, you walk. With unlimited resources at our disposal, you make it happen, whether using more manual testing methods or faster machines.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Good point. This prompted me to investigate further. Seems that they've since got around the machine issue as with trains operators can use a regular PCR machine (whatever that is, idk but something to do with replicating the virus and the UK has 500 or so).

From the Gov website the problem then seems to be that the materials needed to run it aren't open source:

The challenge is the global shortage of materials needed to run the end-to-end testing process at full capacity, particularly the reagents that help to ensure high levels of sensitivity and specificity for these tests, the swabs with which they have been validated, and the challenge of matching specific materials to the different machines available. Most of these high-tech testing platforms are 'closed', which means that these materials can only be supplied by the same manufacturer as the machine. We are therefore dependent on global manufacturers to very rapidly increase the quantity of their specific reagents and kits. We are working in partnership with them to increase supply of these proprietary reagents, maximising the UK's global allocation, and creating a sustainable supply of these components, including setting up local manufacturing bases here in the UK.

-

I'm just kind of pointing out some info with these posts, I'm not disagreeing with you or saying the Gov have been organised in any way at all.

I would say they encountered problems that needed time to solve, but this could have been mitigated by looking into this back in January.

Agree it's crazy.

It's just happened too slowly. Of course it is not easy. But a few weeks back, find these machines, fly army personnel or the minister out to factories that makes the stuff in a jet and leave until you have what we need, ask our manufacturers to replicate the kit, license the tech to make it ourselves and do it all last week. You feel like some nobs on the Apprentice would have made a better stab at it.

 

[Hootnow]

I think they are open to criticism as it seems is Boris. Let’s treat everyone with the same standard at least

I'm finding it an interesting dichotomy on this board to hear people talk about how the East Asian countries have controlled it to some extent due to their sheep like population while we have people on this admittedly quite right wing board queuing up to defend their own government's handling of it, refusing criticism and parts of our media worshipping them in a nauseating way.

I've already said I've criticised the WHO and there are still some things I'd greatly criticise. I think the differences for me though are that they were dealing with a completely novel situation, one in which it was (and still is) impossible to figure out how it would progress. Despite this, I have still criticised them for various things in this situation.

On the other hand, we had ample chance to take it seriously and as far as I can tell, we did not until it was already severely affecting us.

Which is part of the reason I'm relatively uninterested in when China or the WHO supposedly withheld information. Because regardless, by absolute latest 31st January, if you want to go only by the WHO, we had all the info that we needed to to start preparing. As far as I can tell again, we did not. We didn't hit 100 total cases in the UK until 5th March.

 

[Grays_1890]

I'm finding it an interesting dichotomy on this board to hear people talk about how the East Asian countries have controlled it to some extent due to their sheep like population while we have people on this admittedly quite right wing board queuing up to defend their own government's handling of it, refusing criticism and parts of our media worshipping them in a nauseating way.

I've already said I've criticised the WHO and there are still some things I'd greatly criticise. I think the differences for me though are that they were dealing with a completely novel situation, one in which it was (and still is) impossible to figure out how it would progress. Despite this, I have still criticised them for various things in this situation.

On the other hand, we had ample chance to take it seriously and as far as I can tell, we did not until it was already severely affecting us.

Which is part of the reason I'm relatively uninterested in when China or the WHO supposedly withheld information. Because regardless, by absolute latest 31st January, if you want to go only by the WHO, we had all the info that we needed to to start preparing. As far as I can tell again, we did not. We didn't hit 100 total cases in the UK until 5th March.

you seem to have a very “it’s all our fault” view. Personally mine is we could have done better and China has huge questions to answer. I think that’s balanced and not an out of order point of view.

It’s nothing to do with a right wing nature, I actually find that a cop out to say you can’t criticise the Chinese for their early attitude, it’s not a right wing view to criticise their fudging of numbers which would no doubt have an impact on how the world gauged the spread, if you can’t question that then GHod help us.

As for defending Boris I don’t do it blind, he he made mistakes yes (that’s likely to be ignored) but I just have a belief that governing is a lot harder than what people on here make out with Poundland utopian views to run the country and I would maintain that view regardless of who was in charge.

 

[Mikey10]

Reason we have higher rates than Spain and Italy is down to the high rate of population living in such proximity in the U.K., London alone means the opportunity for spread was always likely to be higher even before it was known just how deadly this could be.

Milan? Rome? Madrid? Barcelona? There were literally thousands dying in Italy and we were still being told it was fine to attend Cheltenham and PL football matches. How much information did we need?

I'm finding it an interesting dichotomy on this board to hear people talk about how the East Asian countries have controlled it to some extent due to their sheep like population while we have people on this admittedly quite right wing board queuing up to defend their own government's handling of it, refusing criticism and parts of our media worshipping them in a nauseating way.

Indeed. This is an interesting piece which suggests the opposite about the South Korean public’s response - i.e. that they have a 30 year history of holding their government to account on all manner of things, including health care. Less of the British public’s tugging of the forelock and more rigorous questioning - and action - when they feel things are not being done properly.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...citizens-state-testing?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

And confirmation that we are still heading to the top of the European mortality chart. No doubt today’s 5.00pm flimflam spreading will start with a focus on ‘only’ 37,000 UK deaths now being predicted.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-uk-coronavirus-deaths?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Hopefully Boris is still in good spirits though.

 

[scaramanga]

It's like saying traveling requires a car. It is faster to drive than walk, but if you have no car, you walk. With unlimited resources at our disposal, you make it happen, whether using more manual testing methods or faster machines.

And if what you're walking to is 3000 miles away and the event is tomorrow?

 

[glasgowspur]

In regard to ppe, it's not as easy turning up at a factory or warehouse and taking everything.
Everybody in the world wants it at the moment, why should the UK be first in the queue?

 

[scaramanga]

Milan? Rome? Madrid? Barcelona?



Indeed. This is an interesting piece which suggests the opposite about the South Korean public’s response - i.e. that they have a 30 year history of holding their government to account on all manner of things, including health care. Less of the British public’s tugging of the forelock and more rigorous questioning - and action - when they feel things are not being done properly.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...citizens-state-testing?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Yet they're all running around with an app on their phone that traces their every movement.

 

[johnola]

If we all acted as we expected the government to have done we would all be. LYOt