Champions League 2015/16

[milo]

whilst i think there is some truth to this. i think this reason has been overplayed in the media.

the likes of ozil, cazorla, silva, hazard, mata, rooney, yaya, sterling ,ageuro, de bruyne would be good in any league including the epl. hence why these players always finish at the top of the league.

when these top epl sides buy foreign players, its not like they are buying someone who perhaps wasnt doing so well is a germany or spain because they think he is more suited to the pl. these epl sides often buy the top players from places like spain or germany (as long as rm, barca or bayern) arent in for that player

Let's go through that list of players.

Ozil - decent player but has fallen way short of his potential and is inconsistent.
Cazorla - good but not great. Will be taking a step down when he leaves Arsenal
Silva - has done well domestically
Hazard - I agree. I think that he could hold his own at any club in the world.
Mata - good but there are questions over his work rate. I think that he will be taking a step down when he leaves United.
Rooney - a battering ram. I do not think that he would be successful overseas.
Yaya - excellent in the Premier League. Barcelona did not seem too bothered about losing him.
Sterling - a good player but has a long way to go before we can say that he would be good in any league.
Ageuro - a great player, who would do well anywhere
De Bruyne - I'm reserving judgement. He has done well since leaving Chelsea but Mourinho doesn't get many wrong.

 

[milo]

i think your underestimating the required sample to build the kind of conclusions your suggesting. but i guess this is my opinion against yours.

How far would you like to go back? Given the wealth of the Premier League, I think that our clubs have under performed since we were let back into Europe.

 

[Neymar]

Ozil - decent player but has fallen way short of his potential and is inconsistent.

disagree. as good as silva. but because he isnt winning trophies, his profile is smaller atm. if ozil was at city and silva was at arsenal, the public perception of these players would be reversed.

Cazorla - good but not great. Will be taking a step down when he leaves Ar5ena1

if ronaldo leaves rm, he will be taking a step down too. same with rooney, terry, zlatan, tiago silva et etc. once you reach a certain age, the only way is down if youre already at a top club

Silva - has done well domestically

and done well for the national team too

Hazard - I agree. I think that he could hold his own at any club in the world.

one of many epl stars in this category

Mata - good but there are questions over his work rate. I think that he will be taking a step down when he leaves United.

could say the same about players like benzema

Rooney - a battering ram. I do not think that he would be successful overseas.

falcao- wishes he could be a bettering ram. would not do well outside of iberia

Yaya - excellent in the Premier League. Barcelona did not seem too bothered about losing him.

any other club wouldve loved to have had him. outside of barca, pl clubs have the most money, hence he ended up here

Sterling - a good player but has a long way to go before we can say that he would be good in any league.

was probably lpools 2nd most influencial player when they lucked themselves into a ucl spot. best young player in europe without a doubt. dont take my word for it. ask brendan

Ageuro - a great player, who would do well anywhere

like many others in this list (and others that have not made this list too)

De Bruyne - I'm reserving judgement. He has done well since leaving Chel53a but Mourinho doesn't get many wrong.

he got shevchekno,cuadrdo, swp etc all wrong. probably got falcao wrong too

 

[Neymar]

How far would you like to go back? Given the wealth of the Premier League, I think that our clubs have under performed since we were let back into Europe.

let back into europe? it wasnt so long ago when we were wiouthout doubt the third best league in europe.

the problem with judging via ucl performance is that at some stage it becomes a pure knockout competition

 

[milo]

let back into europe? it wasnt so long ago when we were wiouthout doubt the third best league in europe.

the problem with judging via ucl performance is that at some stage it becomes a pure knockout competition

English clubs were banned from European competition for five years following the Heysel disaster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

Given our financial advantage, I would argue that English clubs have under performed since we got back in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engli...the_UEFA_Champions_League_final.2C_since_1993

 

[Neymar]

given that we probably only had the best teams in europe in the mid/late 00's i dont think thats too bad. and we've arguably never had a financial advantage in terms of the top 3/4 teams. have any of our teams had more money than rm/barca in the past 15 years? arguably not imo. can we afford 500k p/w players like rm/barca? probably not

 

[Neymar]

English clubs were banned from European competition for five years following the Heysel disaster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

im saying thats going way far too back. english clubs overall financial dominance arrived in the mid/late 00's. but we've arguably never been the absolute richest clubs

 

[jurgen lineker]

the movement of players like deulofeu and muniesa to mid table epl clubs to sit on the bench really should show how much stronger epl clubs are

Deulofeu was sitting on the bench at Sevilla last season.

some top players would prefer to move to sevilla. but a lot more would prefer a move to stoke atm.

Konoplankya turned down Stoke for Sevilla.
Nzonzi left Stoke for Sevilla.

 

[Neymar]

Deulofeu was sitting on the bench at Sevilla last season.

but hes willing to go from a top 4-6 spanish side to a mid table pl club all the way in england, to still sit on the bench. that says a lot

Konoplankya turned down Stoke for Sevilla.

rumour has it turned us and lpool down too. perhaps he just wanted to go to spain. maybe he thinks his style suits spain better. or think pl will be too competitive for him and could hurt his career

 

[Jordinho]

but hes willing to go from a top 4-6 spanish side to a mid table pl club all the way in england, to still sit on the bench. that says a lot

It says that English clubs pay very high wages to not so very good players. Most English clubs get a really poor return on the money they spend.

 

[jurgen lineker]

but hes willing to go from a top 4-6 spanish side to a mid table pl club all the way in england, to still sit on the bench. that says a lot

He had no choice, he was on loan, Sevilla never wanted him, his attitude was questioned which is why he found himself on the bench. There was no room for him at Barca either which is why they got rid.

rumour has it turned us and lpool down too. perhaps he just wanted to go to spain. maybe he thinks his style suits spain better. or think pl will be too competitive for him and could hurt his career

"If I was two-and-a-half metres tall and didn't know how to control a ball then I may have gone to England, but here [in Spain], the football's more technical. It's the best,"

"I don't regret coming to Spain. I didn't receive many offers.

"Some came from the Premier League and Sevilla and Atletico from Spain, but I kept thinking that Sevilla were right for me.

"I was very anxious when making my choice, to the point that I got nervous and lost three kilos beforehand. I loved Sevilla's insistence on signing me, so I think I made the right decision."

 

[milo]

given that we probably only had the best teams in europe in the mid/late 00's i dont think thats too bad. and we've arguably never had a financial advantage in terms of the top 3/4 teams. have any of our teams had more money than rm/barca in the past 15 years? arguably not imo. can we afford 500k p/w players like rm/barca? probably not

You seem to be arguing yourself around in circles here. You talk about there being a too narrow sample size and then intentionally narrow it when it suits your argument.

English clubs dominance in Europe in the mid to late 00's amounted to winning the Champions League twice and the UEFA Cup no times.

 

[glasgowspur]

Let's face it if someone gave you the option of working in Stoke or Seville where would you go?
And if you're swithering, Charlie Adam plays for Stoke, enough said I think.

 

[Neymar]

and then intentionally narrow it when it suits your argument.

when?

 

[Neymar]

He had no choice, he was on loan, Sevilla never wanted him, his attitude was questioned which is why he found himself on the bench. There was no room for him at Barca either which is why they got rid.



"If I was two-and-a-half metres tall and didn't know how to control a ball then I may have gone to England, but here [in Spain], the football's more technical. It's the best,"

"I don't regret coming to Spain. I didn't receive many offers.

"Some came from the Premier League and Sevilla and Atletico from Spain, but I kept thinking that Sevilla were right for me.

"I was very anxious when making my choice, to the point that I got nervous and lost three kilos beforehand. I loved Sevilla's insistence on signing me, so I think I made the right decision."

shows he is perhaps a rare breed of player. given that he turned down atletico too, he probably loved the idea that sevilla really wanted him. but this is very rare

also the technical quality of the pl is higher than anywhere else. look at the depth and quality of some of the players here. its unmatched. the style may be more physical than other leagues, but the players are still technically better and play to a higher technical standard overall

 

[Neymar]

Agreed. I do not think that any English club is as good as the top two in Spain or Bayern Munich currently.

im probably with you here

Again, I agree but if even mid-table Premier League clubs have far superior squads, then surely that should help mitigate against that and allow them to do better in Europe.

but these mid table epl clubs do not put out their first teams in the el like they do in spain

This isn't a problem that is new this season. English clubs have been under performing in Europe for a while and there are a lot of European games.

maybe, maybe not. i think its hard to say this definitively. the ucl is a knockout competition and often its just luck that separates the teams at the final stages. a goal here or there, or a refereering decision etc. ie. whilst barcelona have been very good, they have had a lot of refereering luck go their way too in the ucl over the past 5 or so years imo

I think that the biggest issue is that English clubs sign players to compete in the Premier League and a lot of these are ill equipped to European competition. The reason why the wage bills are higher here is because there is competition for the players that are best suited to the English game.

partly agree. but at the end of the day, a good player is a good player whichever league he plays in. and if theres a good player in spain that barca or rm dont want, they inevitably end up in england

 

[milo]

maybe, maybe not. i think its hard to say this definitively. the ucl is a knockout competition and often its just luck that separates the teams at the final stages. a goal here or there, or a refereering decision etc. ie. whilst barcelona have been very good, they have had a lot of refereering luck go their way too in the ucl over the past 5 or so years imo

European football competitions are weighed heavily in favour of the established and richest teams. Seeding through qualification and the group phase are designed with the sole intention of the biggest (and most attractive to the TV companies) clubs getting through to the latter stages. I have also intentionally tried to take the widest possible period to look at English clubs performance in Europe taking in twenty odd years in two competitions. I find it hard to understand how anyone could argue that we have done anything but under perform.

 

[Rorschach]

Douglas Costa is a fantastic player

 

[Rorschach]

Anyone see that save from Neuer? One of the best I've seen.

 

[Papercut]

Anyone see that save from Neuer. One of the best I've seen.

The reflex was very good but the claw hand was amazing!