Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[scaramanga]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Can you give me any more? It seems like the 'turgid football' myth has taken on a life of it's own. It isn't necessarily true.

Worse than that there seems to be a new myth of not AVB = exciting.

For 250 of the 270 minutes we've played, the precise opposite has been true.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

wait, why would giving AVB more time have solved anything in terms of scoring goals and the players playing with more freedom? Maybe he wasnt bothered about such things. Maybe he was very happy with controlling possession for 70% of the game, having pot shots from outside the area, and waiting for 1 or 2 chances for the players to score a goal.

Sherwood cannot fix this right away. Firstly he doesnt have a full squad to choose from, and the games are coming thick and fast so the coaches dont have much time to implement changes on the training field. 10 days is way too short

I don't know, why are Saudi Sportswashing Machine suddenly playing better?

 

[indianspur]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Can you please name me these games where we played without ANY attacking threat or cohesion?

I will give you Hull at home (a lot like Wigan at home last year, awful), plus the 3 hammerings (which did contain lots of either new players/injuries/players being forced to play out of position). And I would say the hammerings are a result of the system simply not clicking on the day at all, meaning it ended up really badly. So to me it stands to reason as the players got more comfortable with the system, those instances of hammerings would reduce. I don't think it was bad tactics or bad players, because those tactics and players also got us points in a good number of games this season.

Can you give me any more? It seems like the 'turgid football' myth has taken on a life of it's own. It isn't necessarily true.

Palace, Arsanal, Villa, West Spam, Everton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine first half, Fulham for the majority of the game, Chelsea second half and of course Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool

like i said, its up to each individual. I didnt like how we played, it seems on the whole you were fine with it.

 

[indianspur]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

All the more reason not to change everything at once.

i agree, but if thats the price we have to pay under this guy il take it rather than suffer watching another AVB team

 

[indianspur]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I don't know, why are Saudi Sportswashing Machine suddenly playing better?

Pardew is getting some good results, but I wouldnt say id pay to watch them week in week out. I have nothing against AVB and his results, just the way we played in order to get those results.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Palace, Arsanal, Villa, West Spam, Everton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine first half, Fulham for the majority of the game, Chelsea second half and of course Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool

like i said, its up to each individual. I didnt like how we played, it seems on the whole you were fine with it.

So for a game to qualify as good football, we have to play well for how long? 90 minutes? 70 minutes?

Palace we should have won that game 3-0. They sat back all game on a small pitch and Sigurdsson and Defoe still missed clear one on one opportunities that were easier to score.

With Arsenal we didn't create much, sure. But we had good possession (to go to theirs and have significantly more possession isn't easy, and is no mean feat, and it's also a fair enough tactic to go to Arsenal and try and keep the ball off of them if you are capable). A 1-0 loss there isn't really a disgrace and not an example to show up a managers 'turgid football'.

Villa we could have won that 4-0 easily. After a controlled first half, we absolutely ruined them in the second.

Everton - do you remember this game? Do you remember how edgy their crowd was? Do you remember Everton, managed by Martinez, great football extraordinair, not being able to get the ball off of us for a good hour? Because it happened. Maybe we didn't line up chance after chance, but we certainly played well and we were certainly on the front foot. It's Everton away, one of the best teams in the league this year, undefeated in the league pre-boxing day at home, it's hardly fair to use a 0-0 draw where we did play well as an example of turgid football justifying a manager's removal.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine - we forced the goalkeeper to make more saves than had been needed in any game in the PL for what was it? 7 years?

Fulham...I think you're being very unfair here. Paulinho missed an open goal. We had chances in both halves and successfully went toe to toe with a team looking to play with high intensity and get their new manager bounce working. It certainly wasn't turgid from us.

Chelsea was a game of two halves, we played extremely well in the first and not so well in the second. Not a disgrace against one of the favourites for the title this year.

I've given you Emirates Marketing Project, Liverpool and West Ham.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Pardew is getting some good results, but I wouldnt say id pay to watch them week in week out. I have nothing against AVB and his results, just the way we played in order to get those results.

What's wrong with how Saudi Sportswashing Machine are playing at the moment?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Only if it was a phase of the game where we were looking to control it. If we were looking to score goals, we'd get men in the box. It's that simple.

I'll gladly accept AVB is gone, but I will argue till the cows come home the misconceptions and misunderstandings of his methods.

Why would we not look to score goals when we were in the opponent's half?

 

[Pirate55]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I would say he agreed to the signings but would have preferred less numbers, and spent the money on higher quality. As he was part of a commitee he can't make all the decisions (the buck stops with Levy) but he can agree to work with what he is given. I would say that if he agrees to 7 foreigners, he would want more time and understanding that it wouldn't be an immediate success. There was noises when the transfer window closed that the board thought a title challenge was still possible while AVB and Baldini didn't.

I believe we would have gotten more goals in the second half of the season, after the foreigners had gotten their 6 months to settle. In the same way that if you asked Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans in March this year if they thought they'd be getting good football from Pardew, they'd laugh you out of the room. His football was long ball, turgid, and they were fighting relegation. Only now it's champagne football and Pardiola again this season because all their new signings (all foreign) have settled.

Difficult to score less IMO

Are Saudi Sportswashing Machine really the team you are holding us up to replicate? We should have mullered them at WHL and Stoke looked fully in control of the match yesterday and were leading 1-0 until they had two men sent off. The ONE player that has made a significant difference to them is Remy - and he was new this season! Didn't take him 6 months to settle.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Difficult to score less IMO

Are Saudi Sportswashing Machine really the team you are holding us up to replicate? We should have mullered them at WHL and Stoke looked fully in control of the match yesterday and were leading 1-0 until they had two men sent off. The ONE player that has made a significant difference to them is Remy - and he was new this season! Didn't take him 6 months to settle.

I'm not looking to replicate Saudi Sportswashing Machine, I'm saying relative to their objectives, their awful season last year has seen them rise up to an outside bet for a CL place this year because they took the early hit of importing multiple foreign players and are reaping the rewards now. They have beaten 3 title contenders in their great run so far.

Remy had 6 months in England last season.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Why would we not look to score goals when we were in the opponent's half?

Because we get sucked into a drunks slugging it out in the car park brawl akin to the last few games under TS (not using this to beat TS, just talking about styles).

It's all very well slinging the ball into the box but maybe there's an argument to say it's better to strike at certain times with more ferociousness once we've worn the opposition down rather than go for it with the maximum straight away? (Not saying it always worked, I'm just saying that's why we might not do so...and it's not as if we wouldn't look to score, it's just we wouldn't be flooding everyone forward in these moments where as we would take more people forward later in the game)

 

[chancer]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

The theory that things were going to improve under AVB is somewhat undermined by how little apparent fight he put up to keep his job.

If I had this amazing system I was certain would work - and produce goals/exciting football - and I could see it all coming together, there's no way I'd allow myself be shown the door with such a whimper. On the Sunday of the Liverpool match I'd have walked into that meeting wihth Levy and Baldini with all my charts and chalkboards and training telemetry and the rest, and made them understand. I'd have explained why the Liverpool 5 and City 6 weren't as bad as they look. I'd have pointed to how my £26m striker was suddenly going to start being fed chances. I'd have explained why 2 DM's against relegation teams at home was the way of the future.

I still believe it was well within AVB's ability to make such a pitch and save his job that night. But he didn't do it. I think the sad truth is that this didn't happen because AVB was as lost as anyone.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Too late, we lost our nerve and sacked the manager.

Yep, my point entirely.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

The theory that things were going to improve under AVB is somewhat undermined by how little apparent fight he put up to keep his job.

If I had this amazing system I was certain would work - and produce goals/exciting football - and I could see it all coming together, there's no way I'd allow myself be shown the door with such a whimper. On the Sunday of the Liverpool match I'd have walked into that meeting wihth Levy and Baldini with all my charts and chalkboards and training telemetry and the rest, and made them understand. I'd have explained why the Liverpool 5 and City 6 weren't as bad as they look. I'd have pointed to how my £26m striker was suddenly going to start being fed chances. I'd have explained why 2 DM's against relegation teams at home was the way of the future.

I still believe it was well within AVB's ability to make such a pitch and save his job that night. But he didn't do it. I think the sad truth is that this didn't happen because AVB was as lost as anyone.

I think it was more the lack of backing he received over Ade, over the transfer policy, over the fact they were willing to let him go to PSG...he didn't feel wanted and he didn't want to put the effort in. I don't think it was that the board didn't understand what he was trying to achieve (which is why they didn't sack him in the first meeting post Liverpool), it was that he didn't want to work with them any more, and they didn't want to bend over to support a guy that had just overseen some hammerings.

 

[superfaisty]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Tbh this argument is not going to be won here and now by anyone. mods can you lock this down until the end of the season and then lets revisit this when we know where we are.

 

[BedfordBen]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I think it was more the lack of backing he received over Ade, over the transfer policy, over the fact they were willing to let him go to PSG...he didn't feel wanted and he didn't want to put the effort in. I don't think it was that the board didn't understand what he was trying to achieve (which is why they didn't sack him in the first meeting post Liverpool), it was that he didn't want to work with them any more, and they didn't want to bend over to support a guy that had just overseen some hammerings.

You have got to be ****ing kidding me. How much money was he on? Can I refuse to try my best on Monday at work because my boss didn't give me a hug? Some people...

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

You have got to be ****ing kidding me. How much money was he on? Can I refuse to try my best on Monday at work because my boss didn't give me a hug? Some people...

I've simply heard it all now.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I think it was more the lack of backing he received over Ade, over the transfer policy, over the fact they were willing to let him go to PSG...he didn't feel wanted and he didn't want to put the effort in. I don't think it was that the board didn't understand what he was trying to achieve (which is why they didn't sack him in the first meeting post Liverpool), it was that he didn't want to work with them any more, and they didn't want to bend over to support a guy that had just overseen some hammerings.

Excuse, speculation, spin, forward extrapolation without any foundation etc etc and so on ad infinitum.

Lets see him BUILD his own system, implement it, stay for more than one season (where he never has so far in his career to date prior to us) to actually deliver it and then achieve success with his theories over the medium to long term.

Then, and only then, will we have some answers.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

You have got to be ****ing kidding me. How much money was he on? Can I refuse to try my best on Monday at work because my boss didn't give me a hug? Some people...

Didn't put the effort in to save his job...of course he put the effort in when he was actually doing it. I'm referring specifically to the meeting the day after the Liverpool match when Chancer asked why he didn't try and save himself, and I'm saying he didn't want to be here any more.

 

[ArnieArdiles]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Saudi Sportswashing Machine are an interesting case: a shed load of new foreigners in January who were pretty shaky iirc for the remainder of that season.

A summer later, some time together (and some managerial stability) and they're on a cracking run; winning 6 from 8; bouncing back after defeats; scoring goals. They are greater than the sum of their parts.

All's not lost, we have to hold our nerve and hope that the team, the players, the system and the manager mature.

Too late, we lost our nerve and sacked the manager.

Yep, my point entirely.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine have the lunatic trigger happy Mike Ashley as chairman, we have the sound Daniel Levy .


Saudi Sportswashing Machine 0 Sunderland 3
Saudi Sportswashing Machine 0 Liverpool 6
Emirates Marketing Project 4 Saudi Sportswashing Machine 0

What are you two on about ?:lol: