Where is it going wrong in attack?

[DHSF]

Most of you need to stop talking about replacing individuals as the source of the solution to the problem. The problem will still exist which is that we look disjointed and incohesive. Its all about training ground tactics and the tactics we adopt towards games. Its too rigid and predictable.

 

[Jordinho]

But we don't have a lot of time on the training ground to work on these things, which is why we haven't seen a marked improvement from game to game. Today is for recovering, then we start preparing for the next game.

I don't expect anything particular to happen this side of Christmas other than a shift in which players AVB prefers. Everyone is getting more accustomed to our tactics and we'll start to move away from relying on moments of individual brilliance. At least that's how I see it.

 

[Pirate55]

But we don't have a lot of time on the training ground to work on these things, which is why we haven't seen a marked improvement from game to game. Today is for recovering, then we start preparing for the next game.

I don't expect anything particular to happen this side of Christmas other than a shift in which players AVB prefers. Everyone is getting more accustomed to our tactics and we'll start to move away from relying on moments of individual brilliance. At least that's how I see it.

I just don't buy this "not enough time on the training ground" argument. Other teams manage perfectly well. At this stage of the season, when fitness is now no longer the main priority, what else is there to concentrate on all week?

 

[braineclipse]

Most of you need to stop talking about replacing individuals as the source of the solution to the problem. The problem will still exist which is that we look disjointed and incohesive. Its all about training ground tactics and the tactics we adopt towards games. Its too rigid and predictable.

Would you mind expanding a bit on what you mean by this?

To me at least our system doesn't seem that rigid. Paulinho is obviously moving up and down the pitch, the player in behind the forward is moving around, as are the wide players.

To me one of the problems is that we're not injecting enough tempo into the game. One and two touch passing is all too rare, too many of our players are a bit too happy taking 3-4 touches per involvement and the opponents get the time to shuffle across and get organized.

I just don't buy this "not enough time on the training ground" argument. Other teams manage perfectly well. At this stage of the season, when fitness is now no longer the main priority, what else is there to concentrate on all week?

You don't see anything other than physical fitness that there's a need to work on on the training ground? Really?

Edit: Worth noting that of the teams we're often compared to these days. Liverpool and Southampton (compared because of the length of managerial stay) aren't in Europe and will have considerable more time on the training ground. City, United and Chelsea have all been inconsistent. The only real consistent performer that is in Europe is Arsenal who have had a very long time to integrate a system and who didn't lose any key players this summer.

 

[Jordinho]

Who are these teams that are doing so much better? Liverpool and Southampton are not in Europe. Chelsea and City have only managed one away win each so far, but have spent billions. Manchester United have had their worst start in known memory. Arsenal have made a minimum of changes to their squad and have the longest serving manager in the league.

 

[SteveAWOL]

But we don't have a lot of time on the training ground to work on these things, which is why we haven't seen a marked improvement from game to game. Today is for recovering, then we start preparing for the next game.

I don't expect anything particular to happen this side of Christmas other than a shift in which players AVB prefers. Everyone is getting more accustomed to our tactics and we'll start to move away from relying on moments of individual brilliance. At least that's how I see it.

Probably no coincidence that Paulinho seems to have settled into the team the quickest of our new signings considering he started training with his new team-mates back in July, whilst Soldado did half his pre-season with Valencia and Eriksen plus Lamela didn't join us until after we'd already played 4 matches.

 

[colin fishwick]

Most of you need to stop talking about replacing individuals as the source of the solution to the problem. The problem will still exist which is that we look disjointed and incohesive. Its all about training ground tactics and the tactics we adopt towards games. Its too rigid and predictable.

Disagree, all about individuals .

Otherwise there would be no point in buying players in the transfer market. Townsend has taken loads of shots, a better player would have scored from some of them. Like Bale for instance .

Replace Townsend with Bale and we would have more goals. Replace Soldado with Suarez and we would have more goals. Replace Lennon with Sturridge and we would have more goals. Replace Holtby with Ozil and we would have more goals.

The individuals and the combination of individuals that AVB is picking is not GHod enough. Lennon, Townsend and Soldado is a pretty poor front 3.

 

[braineclipse]

Disagree, all about individuals .

Otherwise there would be no point in buying players in the transfer market. Townsend has taken loads of shots, a better player would have scored from some of them. Like Bale for instance .

Replace Townsend with Bale and we would have more goals. Replace Soldado with Suarez and we would have more goals. Replace Lennon with Sturridge and we would have more goals. Replace Holtby with Ozil and we would have more goals.

The individuals and the combination of individuals that AVB is picking is not GHod enough. Lennon, Townsend and Soldado is a pretty poor front 3.

I agree to some extent, although obviously DHSF isn't saying that we wouldn't be better off with Bale over Townsend...

I think the point is more within our squad now we've seen some changes in personnel without much of a change in the quality of our attacking play against these stubborn teams. Some people seem convinced that Eriksen over Holtby is the right move, but we've seen the team be just as toothless with Eriksen at least in some matches whilst we've seen Holtby impress in some other matches. Is the answer really to replace one with the other?

I'm about as positive about Lamela as anyone here, but even I will admit that it's not like we carved open Hull in the league cup with him in the side. Does it then make sense to expect a simple change in personnel to make all the difference?

Similarly people were adamant that Defoe should start over Soldado because Soldado wasn't scoring and Defoe was. AVB did and it made no difference at all, at least no positive impact was felt. So he switched back to Soldado, the smarter move imo, but not a move that quickly fixed the problems in our attacking play.

 

[colin fishwick]

I agree to some extent, although obviously DHSF isn't saying that we wouldn't be better off with Bale over Townsend...

I think the point is more within our squad now we've seen some changes in personnel without much of a change in the quality of our attacking play against these stubborn teams. Some people seem convinced that Eriksen over Holtby is the right move, but we've seen the team be just as toothless with Eriksen at least in some matches whilst we've seen Holtby impress in some other matches. Is the answer really to replace one with the other?

I'm about as positive about Lamela as anyone here, but even I will admit that it's not like we carved open Hull in the league cup with him in the side. Does it then make sense to expect a simple change in personnel to make all the difference?

Similarly people were adamant that Defoe should start over Soldado because Soldado wasn't scoring and Defoe was. AVB did and it made no difference at all, at least no positive impact was felt. So he switched back to Soldado, the smarter move imo, but not a move that quickly fixed the problems in our attacking play.

It may take time to get the best out of Lamela, but he is not going to find his from and fluidity sat on the bench. The longer his introduction isn delayed the more you delay getting the best out of him.

My concern is, he gets a PL start , does not play well and is promptly dropped. He needs to be given a fair run. The bar seems to be higher for him than it is for others, where it should be the other way round.

If we were scoring goals without him , then OK, but we are obviously chronically short offensively .

IMO we would have been better off if Townsend had stayed at QPR - he has muddied the waters

 

[diego_maradona]

Neville analysing Dortmunds speed of attack. High pressing and such a quick transition between defence and attack.

We have pace throughout the side but we lack the speed of thought. Also Dortmund just have some fantastic players.

Heavy metal football. Love it

 

[Modric THFC]

Neville analysing Dortmunds speed of attack. High pressing and such a quick transition between defence and attack.

We have pace throughout the side but we lack the speed of thought. Also Dortmund just have some fantastic players.

Heavy metal football. Love it

We have a raft of players that love to dwell on the ball. The very little quick passing going on in our team.

 

[diego_maradona]

We have a raft of players that love to dwell on the ball. The very little quick passing going on in our team.

absolutely spot on mate. The first half of Redknapp's last season we gained a reputation for playing with speed and when it clicked it was scintillating. I remember a game v QPR, we won 3-1, but the fluency in the first half was breathtaking at times. VdV, Bale and Lennon all exchanging positions. Up until after that Saudi Sportswashing Machine game that we won 5-0, we played some very good quick passing football. Of course we had Luka Modric, Bale, Adebayor (on form) and Van der Vaart.

 

[braineclipse]

It may take time to get the best out of Lamela, but he is not going to find his from and fluidity sat on the bench. The longer his introduction isn delayed the more you delay getting the best out of him.

My concern is, he gets a PL start , does not play well and is promptly dropped. He needs to be given a fair run. The bar seems to be higher for him than it is for others, where it should be the other way round.

If we were scoring goals without him , then OK, but we are obviously chronically short offensively .

IMO we would have been better off if Townsend had stayed at QPR - he has muddied the waters

I don't know how you can tell for sure that this is the case.

There's been quite a few high profile players that have been chucked straight into the action only to struggle to adjust and take a considerable amount of time to get up to speed. Allowing him to be more adapted before giving him regular PL game time might allow him to perform at a higher level when this happens which might take away some of the pressure on him.

Your statements really are no more than guesswork, and completely unfalsifiable.

We have a raft of players that love to dwell on the ball. The very little quick passing going on in our team.

Agreed. Although it's a combination of other things than just loving to dwell on the ball, there's also a question of ability.

 

[Modric THFC]

Haven't scored a goal at home in league 341 minutes of football now.
Siggy still the only player to score from open play for us at home in the League.

 

[Kingdawson]

Haven't scored a goal at home in league 341 minutes of football now.
Siggy still the only player to score from open play for us at home in the League.

That's pathetic.

 

[indianspur]

I noticed on Sunday that the majority of our attacks came down the right. Pardew had done his homework and whenever we attacked down the right either Townsend or Walker were crowded out by 3 sometimes 4 Saudi Sportswashing Machine players

 

[Mumorn]

I noticed on Sunday that the majority of our attacks came down the right. Pardew had done his homework and whenever we attacked down the right either Townsend or Walker were crowded out by 3 sometimes 4 Saudi Sportswashing Machine players

In cases like this we need to move Townsend over to the left, but then it arguably nullifies Sigurdsson when he goes over to the right. I mean you'd think the coaching staff would try and go through every possible way a team could defend against us.

 

[lurker of old]

IMO we would have been better off if Townsend had stayed at QPR - he has muddied the waters

Unfortunately it seems as if you are right. My view of Townsend is heavily biased by a pre-season game I saw him play at Milton Keynes, when he clearly couldn't be arsed, and looked very very poor.
With each passing game my view of him is getting confirmed - but I would be very happy if it were not the case.

 

[90291Spur]

Disagree, all about individuals .

Otherwise there would be no point in buying players in the transfer market. Townsend has taken loads of shots, a better player would have scored from some of them. Like Bale for instance .

Replace Townsend with Bale and we would have more goals. Replace Soldado with Suarez and we would have more goals. Replace Lennon with Sturridge and we would have more goals. Replace Holtby with Ozil and we would have more goals.

The individuals and the combination of individuals that AVB is picking is not GHod enough. Lennon, Townsend and Soldado is a pretty poor front 3.

When Bale had the same number of Premier League games for Spurs as Townsend does he was being laughed at as a waste of money and sides like Nottingham Forrest were looking at hime. You might as well compare Townsend to Ronaldo as Bale.

 

[colin fishwick]

When Bale had the same number of Premier League games for Spurs as Townsend does he was being laughed at as a waste of money and sides like Nottingham Forrest were looking at hime. You might as well compare Townsend to Ronaldo as Bale.

Bale played as a LB. He has a better pedigree before he signed for us, which is why we paid £7m for him.

Townsend is 22 has so far been a journeyman being loaned out to 11 clubs mostly in the lower leagues . Did not set the world alight in the lower leagues, not scoring a lot of goals.

Lamela is younger, but has already scored a lot more goals. Townsend is a Championship /Lower PL player.