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O/T The England Thread

parklane1 said:
Its no use blaming the manager, the players are not good enough and untill we find some that are it will be the same old rubbish.
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Not good enough to win it, but they are good enough to reach the QF's. Hodgson has made some shocking decisions with his squad in my opinion. Not to mention who he has made his Captain (a player that shouldn't be anywhere near the starting XI, let alone be made Captain). And then we have the whole Terry in the squad gonad*s.
 
the moonlit knight said:
not good enough to win it, but they are good enough to reach the qf's. Hodgson has made some shocking decisions with his squad in my opinion. Not to mention who he has made his captain (a player that shouldn't be anywhere near the squad , let alone be made captain). And then we have the whole terry in the squad gonad*s.
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little edit there...
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
Not good enough to win it, but they are good enough to reach the QF's. Hodgson has made some shocking decisions with his squad in my opinion. Not to mention who he has made his Captain (a player that shouldn't be anywhere near the starting XI, let alone be made Captain). And then we have the whole Terry in the squad gonad*s.
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Not sure about that at all, the squad we sent to the last world cup was the worst i have seen leave these shores, and the present one is not much better. The line up for the first game will include most of the players who have failed on more then one occasion, and they will do so again.
 
I reckon England will really struggle in the group but will end up finishing 2nd. We'll then get knocked out in the quarter finals. I think Spain will also get knocked out in the quarter finals leaving a semi of Croatia,France,Germany,Holland (is that possible!?)
 
parklane1 said:
Not sure about that at all, the squad we sent to the last world cup was the worst i have seen leave these shores, and the present one is not much better. The line up for the first game will include most of the players who have failed on more then one occasion, and they will do so again.
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------------Hart----------
Jones--Ferdinand--Cahill--Cole
--Parker--Lampard--Carrick--
Lennon----------------------Young
-----------Rooney (Carroll)------------

Nice passing midfield, Lampard getting forward to support. Pacey flanks. Not good enough to win it, but a tough team to beat and provide a goal threat. We all know that we're going to get Lampard/Gerrard in the same midfield.
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
------------Hart----------
Jones--Ferdinand--Cahill--Cole
--Parker--Lampard--Carrick--
Lennon----------------------Young
-----------Rooney (Carroll)------------

Nice passing midfield, Lampard getting forward to support. Pacey flanks. Not good enough to win it, but a tough team to beat and provide a goal threat. We all know that we're going to get Lampard/Gerrard in the same midfield.
Click to expand...

Can't see England getting anywhere with a central midfield that one-paced. Carrick and Lampard should be an either/or.
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
------------Hart----------
Jones--Ferdinand--Cahill--Cole
--Parker--Lampard--Carrick--
Lennon----------------------Young
-----------Rooney (Carroll)------------

Nice passing midfield, Lampard getting forward to support. Pacey flanks. Not good enough to win it, but a tough team to beat and provide a goal threat. We all know that we're going to get Lampard/Gerrard in the same midfield.
Click to expand...

But as far as i am aware 3 of those players will not be at the Euros. We need more then two world class players ( Hart and Cole) to win any trophy and the rest will fail as usual.
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
------------Hart----------
Jones--Ferdinand--Cahill--Cole
--Parker--Lampard--Carrick--
Lennon----------------------Young
-----------Rooney (Carroll)------------

Nice passing midfield, Lampard getting forward to support. Pacey flanks. Not good enough to win it, but a tough team to beat and provide a goal threat. We all know that we're going to get Lampard/Gerrard in the same midfield.
Click to expand...

Lampard and Gerrard in the same team = 60 matches, 40 wins, 12 draws, 8 defeats......123 goals scored by team

yeah, its criminal they play in the same team:rolleyes:
 
indianspur said:
Lampard and Gerrard in the same team = 60 matches, 40 wins, 12 draws, 8 defeats......123 goals scored by team

yeah, its criminal they play in the same team:rolleyes:
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Interesting.

Context is important though. Let's face it, the large majority of England's games are against weak opposition. IMO the results in qualifiers aren't what the team should be judged on (as we should be winning most of them relatively comofortably). They key is how well we play and the results we get in tournaments, especially against decent opposition.

Where'd you get your data from? Do you have a list of all of those 60 matches - who they were against, what kind of game they were (friendly, qualifier, tournament), and what the score was?
 
elltrev said:
Interesting.

Context is important though. Let's face it, the large majority of England's games are against weak opposition. IMO the results in qualifiers aren't what the team should be judged on (as we should be winning most of them relatively comofortably). They key is how well we play and the results we get in tournaments, especially against decent opposition.

Where'd you get your data from? Do you have a list of all of those 60 matches - who they were against, what kind of game they were (friendly, qualifier, tournament), and what the score was?
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I agree with that, international stats can be very misleading.

I actually think Gerrard and Lampard can play together in the same midfield, but as a part of a central trio with a holder like Carrick behind them or a defensive midfielder like Parker perhaps (might see that from Woy). Alternatively in a 4-2-3-1 with one of them (probably Lampard) in one of the deeper roles and the other one in the hole. It is (or was) of course possible for the two of them to play together in a 4-4-2 and against weaker opposition England would still be a decent or good side, but it would be far from ideal imo.

Real shame for all you England fans that Mourinho didn't manage to convince Gerrard to come to Chelsea when he wanted him there. Quite sure that Mourinho would have made it work very well in his 4-3-3 and that by doing so he would have shown whatever England manager was around at the time or after that how it could be done.
 
elltrev said:
Interesting.

Context is important though. Let's face it, the large majority of England's games are against weak opposition. IMO the results in qualifiers aren't what the team should be judged on (as we should be winning most of them relatively comofortably). They key is how well we play and the results we get in tournaments, especially against decent opposition.

Where'd you get your data from? Do you have a list of all of those 60 matches - who they were against, what kind of game they were (friendly, qualifier, tournament), and what the score was?
Click to expand...

no i dont have a list, those stats were shown on tv at the weekend. Yes context is important, but still the figures are impressive enough imo
 
indianspur said:
no i dont have a list, those stats were shown on tv at the weekend. Yes context is important, but still the figures are impressive enough imo
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Ah fair enough. But personally I still can't be impressed with the figures alone. They mean one loss for every five wins; if the wins were against (for example) Belarus, Andorra, Kazahkstan, Wales and Bulgaria (all teams in our last two qualifying groups), and the loss was the 4-1 against Germany, then that's not particularly impressive.

That's why personally I think that win-loss records of England managers are virtually meaningless. For me what matters is how well the team does in tournament games against good opposition.
 
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OT: England 1-0 Belgium: ratings

Not sure this will be allowed its own thread but I think it ought to.

Here goes anyway -

Hart 7 - not severely tested but reassuringly solid

Johnson 5 - for once he got it the other way around, decent at the back, useless going forward

Terry 6 -coped well, some good interventions

Cahill 6 - okay but early exit through injury

Cole 6 - harried a lot without winning much, disappointing going forward

Milner 5 - sadly his form seems to have deserted him

Gerrard 8 - poor start but eventually stamped his authority. Superb tackle that led to England's goal

Parker 6 - some good interventions, faded second half looking tired

Oxlade-Chamberlain 6 - bright start, looked threatening, then disappeared

Young 6 - excellent assist to set up Wellbeck's goal but otherwise out of touch

Wellbeck 7 - brilliantly taken goal

Subs

Lescott 7 - solid at the back;, that through-ball to Defoe was a gem

Wallcott 5 - invisible

Rooney 5 - always rubbish when he puts on an England shirt nowadays

Jagielka 6 - okay

Defoe 7 - excellent approach play and two decent strikes, one against woodwork
 
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