Vlad Chiriches

[Robspur12]

Re: Official - Chiriches

Lets face it playing alongside Dawson makes any defender look pony...

Even Ledders? How about Woodgate? Thought he was pretty good alongside. Playing chiriches and verts as a centre back partnership will be a disaster unless one of them stifles their natural urge to maraud forwards.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

Re: Official - Chiriches

I love Dawson, I just think he's easily upgradeable. And people ****ging vlad... Bizarre. He's been thrown in due to injury in one of the hardest jibs, sometimes he looks world class, some times he makes huge errors, but he's just come to the league, notoriously hard for defenders. He's adjusting. I have no doubt he'll be far far better than Dawson who's at his peak now and still not wowing people.

Whether vlad can play with vert or too similar is another question, it's good to have one big powerful defender, ideally I'd prefer that to be kaboul.

 

[Not just a romanian]

Re: Official - Chiriches

For some reason the argument turned to his forward runs. His runs from deep are the only good thing about his game.

If you look at the goals he's cost us since he came back they're nothing to do with his forward runs and everything to with him being completely exposed as unable to defend without a 2 man defensive shield sitting in front of him all game.

Chiriches was a decent defender in AVB's safety first set up, now he's a liability, easily exposed as a one dimensional limited defender with no pace and an inability to head the ball.

I am seriously starting to think you have a problem.

The amount of ridiculous negative comments you are posting (90% of them against Vlad) is mind blowing and beyond me mate.
For whatever reason, you are ignoring every positive that he brings to the game and just keep exagerating everything else.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Official - Chiriches

I am seriously starting to think you have a problem.

The amount of ridiculous negative comments you are posting (90% of them against Vlad) is mind blowing and beyond me mate.
For whatever reason, you are ignoring every positive that he brings to the game and just keep exagerating everything else.

You're not the only one who has noticed it, don't worry.

 

[Not just a romanian]

Re: Official - Chiriches

For some reason the argument turned to his forward runs. His runs from deep are the only good thing about his game.

If you look at the goals he's cost us since he came back they're nothing to do with his forward runs and everything to with him being completely exposed as unable to defend without a 2 man defensive shield sitting in front of him all game.

Chiriches was a decent defender in AVB's safety first set up, now he's a liability, easily exposed as a one dimensional limited defender with no pace and an inability to head the ball.

Let's look at those goals maybe, shall we?

West Ham (League Cup) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKlK1qd99p0

First goal - he lost the header against Maiga, but I don't think you can blame the goal on him, where was Walker's coverage there?
Second goal - same Maiga out jumping two players (Walker and Capoue) for the goal. Fryers needs to close on his man and not allow him acres of space to cross the ball?
Surely Maiga should get credit for his superb aerial ability for both goals and you can't really blame Chiriches for either, no? Probably not.

Southampton - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18qehu_southampton-2-3-tottenham-hotspur_sport

First goal - he gets turned there by Lallana, but credit to the guy for a fine dribble and great strike. Yes, Chiriches could have done better there not to get turned so easily.
Second goal - Should probably have done better to track Lambert, but surely someone from midfield has to drop back in that situation. He kept his eyes on the ball and missed the run behind him. Blame for the goal goes to Lloris if you ask me.

West Brom - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18xk4z_tottenham-1-1-west-brom-all-goals-soccerlust-com_sport

Surely Ade gets a part of the blame for not being able to kick a football to safety. Can you blame Vlad with anything here? Probably not.

Manure - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1948v2_epl-man-utd-1-2-tottenham-all-goals-highlights-hd_sport

Dawson trips on Wellbeck, then stops (striker then makes the run behind Chiriches - credit also to the pass, great vision there). Dawson never tracks Wellbeck. So who gets the blame for the goal? Should we bash him for not having eyes in the back of his head? Probably not.

Scum (FA Cup) - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x198hkx_arsenal-2-0-tottenham-hoofoot-com-hd-highlights-goals_sport

First goal: He put pressure on the man to hold up play (defenders to that all the time). Walker closed in the middle too soon (Dawson was there to cover so I don't know why our RB would do that) - even the commentator says it..so why is this goal Vlad's fault (maybe Kingdawson would like to answer this).
Second goal: Rose's fumble.

So what goals are we talking about? Apart from the cup defeats, all the other matches we're undefeated. So, what has he cost us?

PS: I've done this not to prove a point to you, but maybe stop you and Kingdawson from influencing other people's opinions as well.
PS2: He is not yet fully there, but surely he is the only one getting these ridiculous negative comments when he's been one of our best summer signings and saved our ass in many difficult situations (including getting us 3 points with his wonder strike from 30m out). I call it as I see it to be honest and I do agree he is making some mistakes at the moment, but to ignore everything else is just..well..you find a word for it.

Edit: fixed links, sorry.

 

[screen nayim]

Re: Official - Chiriches

Lot of effort gone into that post, nice one.
Shame you have to go to so much effort to point out the obvious though.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

 

[Hootnow]

Re: Official - Chiriches

Some silly mistakes recently but he's a player in a new league playing under his 2nd manager with a completely different style of play and management. I don't tend to judge signings like him too much until the next season.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Chiriches

Some silly mistakes recently but he's a player in a new league playing under his 2nd manager with a completely different style of play and management. I don't tend to judge signings like him too much until the next season.

good post as usual.

 

[JerusalemMan]

Re: Official - Chiriches

For some reason the argument turned to his forward runs. His runs from deep are the only good thing about his game.

If you look at the goals he's cost us since he came back they're nothing to do with his forward runs and everything to with him being completely exposed as unable to defend without a 2 man defensive shield sitting in front of him all game.

Chiriches was a decent defender in AVB's safety first set up, now he's a liability, easily exposed as a one dimensional limited defender with no pace and an inability to head the ball.

If the bolded bit was the only thing you wrote it in your post, that would be sufficient to invalidate it.
My word, the ONLY good thing about Chiriches's game is his running from the back?
It's flabbergasting to see someone post that.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: Official - Chiriches

Let's look at those goals maybe, shall we?

Unfortunately you're biased. I'm biased against him at this stage perhaps. Yesterday when he was tying his shoe laces instead of defending a free kick was the last straw for me. Anyway here's a third party view of those goals.

West Ham (League Cup) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKlK1qd99p0

First goal - he lost the header against Maiga, but I don't think you can blame the goal on him, where was Walker's coverage there?
Second goal - same Maiga out jumping two players (Walker and Capoue) for the goal. Fryers needs to close on his man and not allow him acres of space to cross the ball?
Surely Maiga should get credit for his superb aerial ability for both goals and you can't really blame Chiriches for either, no? Probably not.

http://windycoys.com/2013/12/analysis-of-the-goal-conceded-against-west-ham-1812/

First goal -
"Maiga beats Chiriches in the air from a goal kick, and flicks on to Taylor. He brings the ball down, and intelligently finds Jarvis, who finishes well.
Adrian’s punt upfield sees Maiga beat Chiriches in the air – not for the first time after his introduction.
Capoue drops off Taylor far too much, leaving him room to assess his options.
Sigurdsson tracks Jarvis’ run, and then passes him onto Walker.
Walker doesn’t really read Taylor’s excellent pass, whereas Jarvis does – and he finishes it superbly."

Second goal -
"Jarvis retrieves an overhit cross brilliantly…
… and lays off to Morrison. Notice West Ham’s three against two advantage at this point.
Morrison’s fresh legs mean that he is able to skip away from a tiring Sigurdsson.
He gets the ball wide to Diame with a clever pass.
Spurs are still very disorganised from the resultant cross, with Capoue left marking two, and Walker therefore having to make a difficult decision.
Maiga, in between Walker and Capoue, gets up early.
His header finds the corner."


For me he's at fault (not the only one) for both goals here. He's a centre half that cant head and was targeted by west ham as such,
Second one he's marking space, completely out of position.

Southampton - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18qehu_southampton-2-3-tottenham-hotspur_sport

First goal - he gets turned there by Lallana, but credit to the guy for a fine dribble and great strike. Yes, Chiriches could have done better there not to get turned so easily.
Second goal - Should probably have done better to track Lambert, but surely someone from midfield has to drop back in that situation. He kept his eyes on the ball and missed the run behind him. Blame for the goal goes to Lloris if you ask me.

http://windycoys.com/2013/12/analys...d-against-southampton-2212-and-some-thoughts/

First goal - "Danny Fox has the ball on Southampton’s left, as Spurs regroup.
Spurs have plenty of bodies back to deal with this situation so, for me, the criticism about the lack of defensive midfielder causing this goal is not relevant. Chiriches – towards the bottom left of this shot – takes a huge gamble as the ball is slipped to Lallana. He tries to be clever, read the pass, and nip in to get to the ball first.
Instead, he is caught out by Lallana letting the ball run across his body.
Lallana finds the bottom corner with his shot. Lloris has little chance."


Second goal - "Southampton have possession, and Spurs are in a relatively good defensive shape. Sigurdsson is tucked in to make up the numbers. Notice Lambert, who has pulled into the space between Rose and Chiriches.
Chiriches tries to make up the ground to get close to Lambert, but doesn’t stop him laying off to Cork.
As Lambert drops off, Lallana is on the move – he runs into the space that Chiriches has vacated, leaving Dawson in his wake.
Lloris is caught out and is unsure what to do. He starts to come, but doesn’t really achieve anything. Lallana’s vision to pick out Lambert is really quite special.
Lambert is left with the simple task of slotting home – untracked by either Eriksen or Bentaleb."

So he's at fault (not solely at fault but at fault) again for two goals here.

West Brom - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18xk4z_tottenham-1-1-west-brom-all-goals-soccerlust-com_sport

Surely Ade gets a part of the blame for not being able to kick a football to safety. Can you blame Vlad with anything here? Probably not.

http://windycoys.com/2013/12/analysis-of-the-goal-conceded-against-west-brom-2612/

"After a cheap foul by Christian Eriksen, Morgan Amalfitano sends in a free kick. Vlad Chiriches seems to have picked up danger-man, Jonas Olsson, and has an arm out feeling for him.
As the Spurs defenders are sucked to the ball, West Brom’s players hold their positions.
Chiriches has completely left Olsson unmarked. He, Dawson and Adebayor are essentially all in the same position, marking nobody. Lugano challenges for the ball, but doesn’t make contact. This seems to distract Adebayor who is unable to make a clean contact either.
The ball hits Craig Dawson and falls kindly for Olsson to delicately lift it over Lloris."

Again hugely at fault.

Manure - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1948v2_epl-man-utd-1-2-tottenham-all-goals-highlights-hd_sport

Dawson trips on Wellbeck, then stops (striker then makes the run behind Chiriches - credit also to the pass, great vision there). Dawson never tracks Wellbeck. So who gets the blame for the goal? Should we bash him for not having eyes in the back of his head? Probably not.

http://windycoys.com/2014/01/analys...gainst-manchester-united-11-plus-competition/

"Teams are said to be at their most vulnerable when they have just scored themselves, and this was certainly the case for Spurs on New Year’s Day. Antonio Valencia has possession shortly after the kick-off, and is looking for a forward pass.
Adnan Januzaj takes possession, and gets his head up. Notice Welbeck, on his toes…
Welbeck makes a move away from Dawson, runs across the pitch to stay onside, and then darts in behind Chiriches. Rose doesn’t get tight enough to Januzaj to influence his decision, and it allows the young winger to slip a terrific ball in behind the Spurs defence into Welbeck’s path.
It’s a quality piece of movement, and a quality pass. The Spurs defence are caught out by both.
Welbeck waits for Lloris to commit himself, and lifts the ball over him. Could Lloris do more? Possibly."

I think windy's being kind here.
Wellbeck out paces Chiriches and he doesnt even try to go with him or put any pressure on him he gives up like he did with the lambert goal

Scum (FA Cup) - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x198hkx_arsenal-2-0-tottenham-hoofoot-com-hd-highlights-goals_sport

First goal: He put pressure on the man to hold up play (defenders to that all the time). Walker closed in the middle too soon (Dawson was there to cover so I don't know why our RB would do that) - even the commentator says it..so why is this goal Vlad's fault (maybe Kingdawson would like to answer this).
Second goal: Rose's fumble.

http://windycoys.com/2014/01/analys...enal-41-plus-some-thoughts-and-a-competition/

"As soon as Serge Gnabry receives the ball with his back to our goal, there is an issue here – he’s between the Tottenham midfield and defence, and it’s enough to concern Tim Sherwood, who raises his hands from the edge of the technical area. Personally, I would want to see Chiriches much tighter to Gnabry here.
But it’s also interesting to look at the whole view of the pitch from the moment the ball is played to Gnabry. Note the positions of Lennon on the halfway line, Bentaleb, the deepest of our midfield players, and Walker, who had been pretty advanced and is making his way back.
The reason I would want Chiriches to be closer to Gnabry is because he has time and space to turn and drive at the defence, and instantly this move become a genuine danger. Walcott makes an intelligent run in behind Chiriches, and Dawson begins to follow him.
Gnabry has options because our central defenders allow him to have options. Chiriches pays lip service to coming out to him, whilst Walcott’s run has dragged Dawson away, leaving a huge gap.
Because of Dawson’s committing himself, and the mismatch of pace between Dawson and Gnabry, I personally think Kyle Walker has little choice but to focus his intentions on closing this space that he sees Gnabry potentially exploiting. Taking advantage of this, Gnabry shows good intelligence and slips a well-weighted pass into Cazorla’s path.
Walker has had to make a decision, and has therefore opted to leave Santi Cazorla. Because Dawson has sold himself, and because Lennon hasn’t tracked back (and he has the pace to have allowed him to do so in this time) Walker’s decision is deemed questionable. But I personally think it’s a call he has to make, and so find it hard to pin the blame entirely on him.
But it’s a fantastic first-time finish from Cazorla, who drills his shot across Lloris with Walker throwing himself at the ball."

Again a half arsed effort by Chiriches.

So what goals are we talking about? Apart from the cup defeats, all the other matches we're undefeated. So, what has he cost us?

PS: I've done this not to prove a point to you, but maybe stop you and Kingdawson from influencing other people's opinions as well.
PS2: He is not yet fully there, but surely he is the only one getting these ridiculous negative comments when he's been one of our best summer signings and saved our ass in many difficult situations (including getting us 3 points with his wonder strike from 30m out). I call it as I see it to be honest and I do agree he is making some mistakes at the moment, but to ignore everything else is just..well..you find a word for it.

Edit: fixed links, sorry.

I wish he was a top centre half but he keeps making mistakes and bad decisions. Ultimately he cant head the ball and is pretty slow so I'm not even sure if he improved on his positioning and decision making he would ever have the tools to be the defender we need.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: Official - Chiriches

If the bolded bit was the only thing you wrote it in your post, that would be sufficient to invalidate it.
My word, the ONLY good thing about Chiriches's game is his running from the back?
It's flabbergasting to see someone post that.

I think when playing against one striker the two centre halfs end up having a lot of time on the ball to start off attacks.
Chiriches ability on the ball is what makes him because without it he's a very average defender, well below what we need.

 

[Not just a romanian]

Re: Official - Chiriches

We just have a different view on things, I guess. You can look at it from different angles and perspectives, of course, but it matters who is next to you on the pitch as well..so I guess that should also factor in with your above views. It takes time to iron out this kind of detail and all the players make mistakes, but the point I was trying to make is that your comments are full of negativity and all turned against him which I don't really understand.
Or maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation if his passport didn't have Romania written on it (just a thought, not an accusation).

Guess time and games will tell if he has what it takes and if these "massive" flaws you are pointing out are the only thing he has. From my side, this conversation is going nowhere and I'd rather not waste any more time on it.
It's funny, I thought that fans are supposed to support their club and the players, not boo them when they actually try to play football and not hoof the ball away just to get rid of it.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Chiriches

Modric THFC:

Do you see the similarity between the following two situations?

(buildup to the United goal)

(buildup to the Arsenal goal)

See how in both situations there's a striker making the run in between Dawson and Chiriches. In one of these situations you want Chiriches to drop deep to track the run behind his back. In the other you want Chiriches to push up and leave the player going in behind his back.

A touch assumptive of me, but I think had Chiriches been closer to Gnabry and the pass had come for Walcott like it did for Welbeck you would have said exactly the same as you did about the Welbeck goal and been sure that Chiriches should have been tracking the runner in between the defenders. Had the pass from Januzai been hit at the United player running in front of Chiriches (in between him and the central midfielder) and a goal had resulted from that I think you might have ended up saying that Chiriches should have been closer to that player.

The point for me remains, when you get runs like that in and around the central defenders and you give opponents on the ball time to to play an accurate well timed pass all central defenders will struggle, chances and goals will result and almost as certainly as that people will be pointing fingers saying that the central defender should have been marking whatever space or player that ended up being the danger man. Despite there being multiple danger men and multiple danger areas.

The common denominator for those isn't Chiriches by the way, it's Rose. He first fails to get close to Januzai (perhaps not surprising seeing as Januzai had been getting the better of him consistently). And he completely leaves Gnabry against Arsenal, leaving our central defenders two against two against Gnabry and Walcott, not exactly a good situation. You can see from the image even how he's rushing to get back into positions knowing full well that he's marking vacant grass.

 

[Not just a romanian]

Re: Official - Chiriches

I wish he was a top centre half but he keeps making mistakes and bad decisions. Ultimately he cant head the ball and is pretty slow so I'm not even sure if he improved on his positioning and decision making he would ever have the tools to be the defender we need.

Eh? Typo?

(I know it's fast forward, but Mirallas was already at full speed while Vlad had to turn and accelerate - still managed to make up lost ground. Trust me, pace is not an issue with him, on the contrary..)

Just curious..have you ever played football or try to run with a knee that is not 100% and a month after you got your nose broken?

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Official - Chiriches

brain...did you do the chiriches watch ?

i didnt see a full game , just football first but i counted at least 5 time where a long ball over or a ball down the side of him, NOT going to the outside channel, took him out completely

but anyway, what did you think overall especially taking into consideration what we were talking about?

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Chiriches

brain...did you do the chiriches watch ?

i didnt see a full game , just football first but i counted at least 5 time where a long ball over or a ball down the side of him, NOT going to the outside channel, took him out completely

but anyway, what did you think overall especially taking into consideration what we were talking about?

Did you see the one where Chamakh raced through? that was the most pathetic one.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Chiriches

brain...did you do the chiriches watch ?

i didnt see a full game , just football first but i counted at least 5 time where a long ball over or a ball down the side of him, NOT going to the outside channel, took him out completely

but anyway, what did you think overall especially taking into consideration what we were talking about?

No, sorry, heat of the moment and I completely forgot.

Thought he was very poor in the first half, but much better in the second. Same as most of the rest of the team.

Did you see those situations in both halves?

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Official - Chiriches

No, sorry, heat of the moment and I completely forgot.

Thought he was very poor in the first half, but much better in the second. Same as most of the rest of the team.

Did you see those situations in both halves?

yep both halfs

never mind , we'll do it again in the next one

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Chiriches

yep both halfs

never mind , we'll do it again in the next one

Cheers, and yes! (And I will probably again be fired up like a pile of matchsticks and forget about it, but I'll try. I promise!)

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Official - Chiriches

Cheers, and yes! (And I will probably again be fired up like a pile of matchsticks and forget about it, but I'll try. I promise!)

so basically watch out for

the flat footedness
the ball watching
bad decisions of when to come out (defensively, not offensively cause the latter is actually a strength of his, heart stopping though)
and the lack of communication between him and dawson (that one is near impossible to prove excpet by how they may not work in tandem like Dawson and chiriches)
positioning

with all that in mind look at what happens when a long ball gets played down his side...or a probing ball beside him

edit:- rossi 22 reminded me of something
take a look at the CASUAL and nonchalant track back when the team is on the back foot or he's been beaten by said ball...almost like he lets others covering him deal with it....i dont think this happens often but it does happen