• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying

Ah yes. The "Liverpool fans were acting in self defence and were therefore justified in killing 39 people and injuring many hundreds of others" argument which was rejected as insulting, implausible and lacking in any remorse at the trial where the Liverpool fans were convicted of manslaughter.

Heysel is my problem with Liverpool Football Club and their apologists because their insincere, mealy-mouthed statements on the death of 39 football fans show no hint of regret or an apology.

And I think they should apologise. Properly. And stop blaming Juve for the deaths of those 39 innocent people. Or claiming that Liverpool Football club were the victims at Heysel.
 
Last edited:
JPBB said:
Ah yes. The "Liverpool fans were acting in self defence and were therefore justified in killing 39 people and injuring many hundreds of others" argument which was rejected as insulting, implausible and lacking in any remorse at the trial where the Liverpool fans were convicted of manslaughter.

Heysel is my problem with Liverpool Football Club and their apologists because their insincere, mealy-mouthed statements on the death of 39 football fans show no hint of regret or an apology.

And I think they should apologise. Properly. And stop blaming Juve for the deaths of those 39 innocent people. Or claiming that Liverpool Football club were the victims at Heysel.
Click to expand...

Who are "they" in your mind?
 
JPBB said:
Ah yes. The "Liverpool fans were acting in self defence and were therefore justified in killing 39 people and injuring many hundreds of others" argument which was rejected as insulting, implausible and lacking in any remorse at the trial where the Liverpool fans were convicted of manslaughter..
Click to expand...

And who can blame them? They continously need to defend what a bunch of idiots did 22 years ago. Many of the fans of today wasn't even born then. We all would be self defending under such circumstances. And yes, if you are affected by what others have done to you, and you have not done anything wrong except from supporting the same club as those idiots were supposed to support, then you really are a victim.

Sorry for beaking down your illusions.
 
Olle73 said:
And who can blame them? They continously need to defend what a bunch of idiots did 22 years ago. Many of the fans of today wasn't even born then. We all would be self defending under such circumstances. And yes, if you are affected by what others have done to you, and you have not done anything wrong except from supporting the same club as those idiots were supposed to support, then you really are a victim.

Sorry for beaking down your illusions.
Click to expand...
I'd like to think we, as a club and as supporters, would be better than that.

I'd like to think we wouldn't deflect blame, I'd like to think both the club and supporters would apologise and take full responsibility and I'd like to think we wouldn't try and silence all discussion of it by drowning it out with talk of another disaster.
 
I think maybe you are being ironic.

You have highlighted the staggering hypocrisy of Liverpool Football Club towards the Heysel victims in comparison to the Hillsborough victims

If you are killed by Police incompetence you deserve justice but if you are killed by rioting Liverpool fans you don't.

(and then to add insult to injury you claim that Liverpool Football Club are the victims in the Heysel tragedy. I am not sure the most fervent RAWK lunatic would go that far)
 
Olle73 said:
And who can blame them? They continously need to defend what a bunch of idiots did 22 years ago. Many of the fans of today wasn't even born then. We all would be self defending under such circumstances. And yes, if you are affected by what others have done to you, and you have not done anything wrong except from supporting the same club as those idiots were supposed to support, then you really are a victim.

Sorry for beaking down your illusions.
Click to expand...

Taking your argument to its conclusion, Juve should apologise to Liverpool for allowing their supporters to be killed by rioting Liverpool fans.

It just does not make sense.
 
scaramanga said:
I'd like to think we, as a club and as supporters, would be better than that.

I'd like to think we wouldn't deflect blame, I'd like to think both the club and supporters would apologise and take full responsibility and I'd like to think we wouldn't try and silence all discussion of it by drowning it out with talk of another disaster.
Click to expand...

THFC have dark days in their history.

Indeed Liverpool fans often offer Rotterdam in 1974 and 1983 as examples as why Heysel was not their fault because it was part of a general Thatcherite cultural malaise and that Liverpool Football Club fans were no worse than Spurs fans and Liverpool were just unlucky that day. In short - they were innocent victims of circumstance.

There are also startling similarities between Hillsborough and the Spurs / Wolves incident at same ground in 1981.

Maybe we are just lucky.

Or maybe Spurs fans are just a little bit more restrained. A little bit more circumspect. A little bit more decent.
 
Can we have an amendment to Godwin law that includes Thatcher?
In 1974 thatcherism was not part of the British cultural landscape. Its was not part of any landscape.
 
JPBB said:
THFC have dark days in their history.

Indeed Liverpool fans often offer Rotterdam in 1974 and 1983 as examples as why Heysel was not their fault because it was part of a general Thatcherite cultural malaise and that Liverpool Football Club fans were no worse than Spurs fans and Liverpool were just unlucky that day. In short - they were innocent victims of circumstance.

There are also startling similarities between Hillsborough and the Spurs / Wolves incident at same ground in 1981.

Maybe we are just lucky.

Or maybe Spurs fans are just a little bit more restrained. A little bit more circumspect. A little bit more decent.
Click to expand...


If you punch someone and they die you are punished a lot more than giving someone a black eye - get caught drink driving if no one is injured you may get banned, kill someone and you get up to 14 years.

Both same offences just different outcomes, they were the main cause of Heysel cant point to the absence of death elsewhere to justify your bad behavior.
 
JPBB said:
Taking your argument to its conclusion, Juve should apologise to Liverpool for allowing their supporters to be killed by rioting Liverpool fans.

It just does not make sense.
Click to expand...

You can't have much experience of Juve support then. Some of their supporters were/are fudging animals. You still haven't rebutted my point about the pistol. Why not? So according to you, the Juventus support did not riot. That was not my memory of the match, one that I watched live on TV. I fail to see how you can blame the present club and support for something that happened over 30 years ago. What does Klopp have to apologise for, the board, or indeed most of the club's support. This is deluded.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Minister in the Heath government.
Click to expand...
Yes I'm well aware of that, it doesn't make it Thatchers government, country or part of Thatcher led cultural malaise as suggested in the previous post.
There is plenty of blame to be laid at Thatchers door, but this smacks of at best lazy fact checking and at worst trying to bolster a weak argument by including the bogeyman everyone hates.
 
JPBB said:
I think maybe you are being ironic.

You have highlighted the staggering hypocrisy of Liverpool Football Club towards the Heysel victims in comparison to the Hillsborough victims

If you are killed by Police incompetence you deserve justice but if you are killed by rioting Liverpool fans you don't.

(and then to add insult to injury you claim that Liverpool Football Club are the victims in the Heysel tragedy. I am not sure the most fervent RAWK lunatic would go that far)
Click to expand...
The events of Heysel do not make the events of Hillsborough any less bad or shameful. A few arsehole Liverpool fans doesnt make the families of the 96 any less justified in seeking justice for their dead love ones? Not sure why the two are being conflated

The perpetrators of Heysel were caught and sentenced for manslaughter not sure therefore why this discussion is even to be had anymore.
 
Last edited:
galeforce said:
I don't agree with "innocent victims of circumstance", yes the circumstances were brick but the general behaviour of football fans from many clubs was atrocious
Click to expand...

Absolutely this. I remember as late as the 90s sitting in pubs watching England international with so called fans (many of whom were Chelsea) shouting racial obscenities, throwing beer glasses and punches. It was very frightening. Not too mention the brick that occurred at League matches.
 
glasgowspur said:
Yes I'm well aware of that, it doesn't make it Thatchers government, country or part of Thatcher led cultural malaise as suggested in the previous post.
There is plenty of blame to be laid at Thatchers door, but this smacks of at best lazy fact checking and at worst trying to bolster a weak argument by including the bogeyman everyone hates.
Click to expand...

Well yes ok. I agree.

Nevertheless, Thatcher is so important in the culture of Liverpool both then and now. As we know, the people of Liverpool feel they were the victims of particularly vicious and unfair treatment by her Government and it is sometimes suggested by commentators of Liverpool and other clubs' fan violence that her policies were central in creating the environment for football violence to flourish. And I was using Thatcher as an adjective to illustrate an argument used by the Heysel apologists to deflect blame away from Liverpool Football Club.
 
Last edited:
Robspur12 said:
The events of Heysel do not make the events of Hillsborough any less bad or shameful. A few ******** Liverpool fans doesnt make the families of the 96 any less justified in seeking justice for their dead love ones? Not sure why the two are being conflated

The perpetrators of Heysel were caught and sentenced for manslaughter not sure therefore why this discussion is even to be had anymore.
Click to expand...

Well, they are related inasmuch as Liverpool Football Club were involved in both tragedies and their position on them is starkly different.

If seems that if you are killed by Police negligence, Liverpool Football Club will fight tooth and nail for justice. But if you are killed by rioting Liverpool Football club fans, they will ignore it, not apologise and then under much pressure many years later reluctantly offer you "amicizia". Quite rightly the families of the victims of Liverpool fan violence told them it was too little, too late and demanded a proper apology which still not forthcoming.

As for the Liverpool fans being convicted of the deaths of 39 people, it makes it even more astounding that Liverpool Football Club still refuse to apologise when there is no dispute as to who was responsible.
 
JPBB said:
Well yes ok. I agree.

Nevertheless, Thatcher is so important in the culture of Liverpool both then and now. As we know, the people of Liverpool feel they were the victims of particularly vicious and unfair treatment by her Government and it is sometimes suggested by commentators of Liverpool and other clubs' fan violence that her policies were central in creating the environment for football violence to flourish. And I was using Thatcher as an adjective to illustrate an argument used by the Heysel apologists to deflect blame away from Liverpool Football Club.
Click to expand...
I wasn't really having a pop at you.
More that in general Thatcher is trotted out now as if that should end all argument.
Let's face it there was violence at football before Thatcher and after Thatcher.
The reasons are many and varied and if we want to eradicate it using simplistic arguments and producing populist spacegoats.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back