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***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs Chelsea OMT***

You're living in alternate 'realities' and past events. Again, we nearly equalized in the 92nd minute. Think about that. 'Epitome of Spurs bottling it', oh come on, if you want to conflate that bizarro match with history, then have fun?
It’s never a bottle job. Not in a million years. The phrase gets thrown around far too often so now any “unexpected” defeat can be ascribed to bottling it and we all feel better about life because we have a better mentality than the loser players.
 
OK, now I need to offer you some perspective. Liverpool - managed by Klopp for what, 7 seasons? Spurs - managed by Ange for what, 3 and a bit months? A virtually new side after last season? Again, we nearly equalized in the 93rd minute. Their two late goals were the result of 9 v 11, not 'handing the match on a plate'...where I agree we were naive was with Udogie and Romero. They will learn. We will learn. We are learning. Take the ride!!!!!!!!!
You’re living in a world Steff where, if the result goes against us, the coach should have done x, y or z and we’d have gotten a result. Doesn’t matter that x, y or z will never be tested. Doesn’t matter that 11 v 9 for 40 minutes is always likely to result in a win for 11.

The loss is on Romero and Udogie. Maybe you could look at Ange for the poor discipline across the team. But putting the loss down to tactics is just nonsense in my book. Whatever he did at 11 v 9 was always likely to end in defeat. It was far more entertaining to go down swinging.
 
Some people really sell themselves out at the first sign of trouble (including a few on this forum.) Ange doesn’t. He sticks to it. It was so close to paying off in a huge way. Dier’s offside goal. Bentancur’s awkward header. Son’s shot. We had so many things fall against us (and a few we did ourselves) but very little fell for us.

Very happy with what we saw over all. A lot to learn from and the most incredible 4-1 loss I think you’ll ever see.

Also, special mention to Dier and Hjobjerg. Showed their stuff today. Massive respect.
 
Some people really sell themselves out at the first sign of trouble (including a few on this forum.) Ange doesn’t. He sticks to it. It was so close to paying off in a huge way. Dier’s offside goal. Bentancur’s awkward header. Son’s shot. We had so many things fall against us (and a few we did ourselves) but very little fell for us.

Very happy with what we saw over all. A lot to learn from and the most incredible 4-1 loss I think you’ll ever see.

Also, special mention to Dier and Hjobjerg. Showed their stuff today. Massive respect.
Have to be honest, I’m more in on Ange this morning than I was. I am a bit miffed by our lack of discipline and I think that’s on the manager to an extent. But the players themselves shoulder most of the responsibility.

But to see us go down swinging, and swinging decent punches, was fudging brilliant. That was a Tottenham I want to support. The interview after - okay you could say how will he react when he has a truly awful call against him but I think he showed absolute class last night. Maybe he couldn’t really whinge too much about the decisions but he could have made it about VAR and he didn’t.

Class act. We’re possibly in for a tough few weeks but we need to stay behind this fella whatever comes our way.
 
Some people really sell themselves out at the first sign of trouble (including a few on this forum.) Ange doesn’t. He sticks to it. It was so close to paying off in a huge way. Dier’s offside goal. Bentancur’s awkward header. Son’s shot. We had so many things fall against us (and a few we did ourselves) but very little fell for us.

Very happy with what we saw over all. A lot to learn from and the most incredible 4-1 loss I think you’ll ever see.

Also, special mention to Dier and Hjobjerg. Showed their stuff today. Massive respect.

I think I impulsively go negative and empty but then start to see things as they are. Last night I was so aware of having been ‘battered’ 4-1 by Chelsea at home. A heavy defeat inflicted by the team that I hate the most, yes more than I hate Arsenal. And to see the two sendings off and three significant injuries, I include Pedro Porro as I think that he played through injury. We played a high line and at the time it seemed as if we played our way into defeat. I thought Postecoglou had been naive and that he had been one of the architects of our downfall.

An hour later and things become more clear upon reflection in my mind.

Although I still question why Postecoglou didn’t take off Udogie, I can now appreciate that this and the highline were the result of the brave mentality, the bold mentality that makes Postecoglou what he is, and such a great man to have at the club. It’s bold, it’s refreshing and I don’t want him to charge who he is. Before the match I wrote a post about how I wish Mourinho hadn’t changed his ways with us after the West Ham match. And now I’ll say I don’t want Postecoglou to change.

Yes, we lost heavily. Yes, it can be questioned whether all decisions were correct, but I’d prefer we were bold and went for it than sat back only to likely lose anyway. Ange clearly trusted Udogie. Udogie was on a booking v Arsenal and didn’t get a second and in fact upped his game. And so the trust was deserved. Udogie made a mistake with the first challenge but it was of the moment and it was a mistake that a kid, which he still is will make. It was a mistake and he will learn from it and improve. He’s been excellent so far this season so that I take both the positives and the negatives and back him throughout. And back Ange’s decision to leave him on.

As for the attacking mentality. Yes, arrack, get at them and give teams more to think about rather than just how they will find a goal. We were brave, we gave some back and we were unlucky with an offside goal and that a couple of the chances weren’t better taken. Had Bentancur not just been back from injury maybe he takes that chance etc but it is what it is. We were level and then only a goal behind for the majority of time. Only losing 4-1 in the last few minutes. A scoreline that flattered a Chelsea side playing against nine men.

So we regroup. Hopefully the injuries won’t be too long term. Although I am very worried about VDV. But Dier stepped up yesterday and played a better game than the majority of us would have expected. And so he will likely be called upon to continue that in the time ahead and I’ll get behind him to do so if that happens. We’ll miss the suspended players but that happens in football and it’s why clubs have squads not just a team. We need to make the most of the squad and give chances for players to prove their worthy. Chances to players that we want to see given a chance. Chances to those players that we may previously have written off but need that new chance under this new revolution and to see how they can perform.

That loss as we were brave and fought as a team might push us closer together. It showed that players will fight hard for each other, and Ange, and tirelessly. Fighting to be the best that we can be and never to give up. Never to change our ways but instead to show that we are Tottenham Hotspur. We won’t go down, we won’t sit back, we will be in your face win, lose or draw. This isn’t the old Tottenham that would crumble. This is the resolute Tottenham that even if we lose will do so trying to win no matter the circumstances. It’s what I want, it’s what most of us have said we want, so let’s get behind the team and push on to the next match.

Those supporters travelling to watch us at Wolves, please make more noise than ever before. Show our team that we are behind this and that we won’t go without a fight, that this is a new dawn that one won’t be ended just by one defeat. Sing loudly in recognition of the tireless efforts of the players in the face of the difficult circumstances last night. Sing them to the next win.

Sorry if the above was waffle. I wrote it at 5am, but it does show a lot of my sentiments. COYS
 
You’re living in a world Steff where, if the result goes against us, the coach should have done x, y or z and we’d have gotten a result. Doesn’t matter that x, y or z will never be tested. Doesn’t matter that 11 v 9 for 40 minutes is always likely to result in a win for 11.

The loss is on Romero and Udogie. Maybe you could look at Ange for the poor discipline across the team. But putting the loss down to tactics is just nonsense in my book. Whatever he did at 11 v 9 was always likely to end in defeat. It was far more entertaining to go down swinging.


I've no issues with Ange last night, he's empowered the players this season and put trust in them to work out how to fix problems.

We had the three captains on the pitch last night when it went mental, On TV I didn't see any of them trying to calm the situation, or Son/Maddison tell Romero to chill out after he kicked out 5 minutes before his red.

Maybe going long for a couple of minutes to allow a regroup and to calm down could have helped? Who knows now.

Someone at the ground might have seen this happen of course
 
Apologies if someone else has already said this but it was the first time in years that I’ve seen us stay true to our motto.

Audere est facere - ‘to dare is to do’

And we now have a team led by a manager that dares. And yes, we lost last night but another day we will rise again.
 
Got in late from the game last night and was too frazzled to post anything, my mind has been racing since and I have barely slept so may aswell get some thoughts on the game down.

Firstly, Romero. Idiot. I don't know what wound him up as he'd seemed a changed man this season. Ange needs to give him a private gonad*ing.

Destiny, I'll cut some slack. 1st booking was over zealous at a time in the game when we were all over them and the crowd was up. Caught up in the moment maybe? The 2nd booking you could see coming when the ball broke and came about as they had us 3 on 2 after Royal dived in and missed Sterling in their half.

I totally get those criticising the high line with 9 men. In hindsight it was probably suicidal, though with the personnel we had out there I think retreating to the edge of our box for 40 mins would have seen the same end result and would have denied us the almost comical sight of Chelsea repeatedly fudging up the seemingly simple (yes, I know they got through eventually).

The 2 late goals really added some undeserved gloss to the scoreline for Chelsea. They really weren't that good and we were taking them apart before the craziness ensued. Whilst you can't argue with our 2 reds I think there was a spell after the first Destiny booking where the ref let them get away with a string of fouls in quick sucession which frustrated the crowd and our players and enabled them to build some momentum for the first time which eventually led to the penalty incident. I thought Oliver had no control over the game at all and no consistency over what was or wasn't a foul.

Despite everything that was going wrong, the atmosphere and support was brilliant. I don't know if others who were there felt the same but after Romero's red and the injuries to Madders and VDV it just felt like 'oh well, that's it, were gonna lose this now' and everyone relaxed. Gone was the tension and stress of a big game where you are desperate for a win. It sounds bizarre but everyone was sort of enjoying it in a fudged up way. We were loving the effort and commitment from the 9 and every offside or misplaced Chelsea through ball was cheered like a goal and then there was Vicario.....

Can we call him the leagues best keeper yet?
 
Apologies if someone else has already said this but it was the first time in years that I’ve seen us stay true to our motto.

Audere est facere - ‘to dare is to do’

And we now have a team led by a manager that dares. And yes, we lost last night but another day we will rise again.
And let’s say we’d shut up shop and defended deeper, played for the draw. We might be 1 point better off and we’d still be feeling proud, but I think we saw everyone coming together when brick goes wrong. That’s such a valuable thing to learn and in the long term I think…and I can’t believe I’m actually writing this, maybe it’s an over-the-top positive spin on it…but a 4-1 loss actually gives us more than a 1-1 draw would have.
 
Lots of excellent posts that are spot on and a good read.

As others have said last night will be a good learning exercise for certain players and possibly some of the coaching staff around being revved up for a derby but remembering there is a line that if crossed it will damage the teams chances.

Maddison injury looks like a minor knock and as for VDV is there any hope its just a pull and not a tear?

I guess Dorrington and Phillips will be in the match day squad for a while but wonder if either of them will start next to Dier?
 
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Got in late from the game last night and was too frazzled to post anything, my mind has been racing since and I have barely slept so may aswell get some thoughts on the game down.

Firstly, Romero. Idiot. I don't know what wound him up as he'd seemed a changed man this season. Ange needs to give him a private gonad*ing.

Destiny, I'll cut some slack. 1st booking was over zealous at a time in the game when we were all over them and the crowd was up. Caught up in the moment maybe? The 2nd booking you could see coming when the ball broke and came about as they had us 3 on 2 after Royal dived in and missed Sterling in their half.

I totally get those criticising the high line with 9 men. In hindsight it was probably suicidal, though with the personnel we had out there I think retreating to the edge of our box for 40 mins would have seen the same end result and would have denied us the almost comical sight of Chelsea repeatedly fudging up the seemingly simple (yes, I know they got through eventually).

The 2 late goals really added some undeserved gloss to the scoreline for Chelsea. They really weren't that good and we were taking them apart before the craziness ensued. Whilst you can't argue with our 2 reds I think there was a spell after the first Destiny booking where the ref let them get away with a string of fouls in quick sucession which frustrated the crowd and our players and enabled them to build some momentum for the first time which eventually led to the penalty incident. I thought Oliver had no control over the game at all and no consistency over what was or wasn't a foul.

Despite everything that was going wrong, the atmosphere and support was brilliant. I don't know if others who were there felt the same but after Romero's red and the injuries to Madders and VDV it just felt like 'oh well, that's it, were gonna lose this now' and everyone relaxed. Gone was the tension and stress of a big game where you are desperate for a win. It sounds bizarre but everyone was sort of enjoying it in a fudged up way. We were loving the effort and commitment from the 9 and every offside or misplaced Chelsea through ball was cheered like a goal and then there was Vicario.....

Can we call him the leagues best keeper yet?
I have a suspicion (and I could be totally wrong ofc) that some members of the coaching staff (perhaps Ryan Mason) wound them up too much before the game forgetting there are a lot of young heads and a loose cannon in our team. It just doesn’t make sense to me how Udogie seemed on a crazy high at times flying into challenges especially the one he got booked for which was totally unnecessary.

As long as everyone learns the lessons that’s all we can ask.

As for that moment you refer to after the Udogie booking I agree completely, Oliver was trying to let the game flow (as refs are trying to do now) but there was multiple ‘fouls’ by them right on the borderline that he let go.
 
The moment Micky went down and Royal came on for him, it was just a matter of time before Udogie got his second yellow. With no BJ to help him out and no pace next to him, it was bound to happen. I really think we might have gotten a result with 10 men. Heck, we almost got a result with 9 men. Their last 2 goals don't mean anything. Even a team playing full strength that's going for the equalizer will concede these goals, much less playing with 2 players down.

Cuti had that card coming. He got away with one when he kicked Colwill. And we were up a goal too, so didn't make any sense. Udogie was lucky too he didn't get a red when he got his first yellow. Both feet off the ground and studs showing. Very immature for a player that had only 9 yellows across 60+ matches in Serie A. In hindsight, a red for Udogie at that juncture might have meant Cuti playing a little more carefully, but it is what it is.

I also don't know what to make of the tactics, especially after Udogie's sending off. We saw how Liverpool kept us at bay with ease when they went to a low block with 2 players less. I don't know why we didn't do the same.

In any case, credit to the lads for the fight. This is not a shabby Chelsea team. It's just a shame that on Poch's return to the Lane we shot ourselves in the foot. I really would have relished a full strength battle with them and I think we would have come out on top.
Pool had plenty of defenders on to keep us at bay
We don’t have them in the squad to make that change
It’s much easier keeping teams at bay with your best defenders
 
I have my opinion and I'm entitled to it, as everyone else is.

Yes we could have knicked a draw, but on the balance of chances we could also have had a right thumping, both of those are equally valid opinions to hold.
Some people think certain players were great, some think otherwise. Maybe some of our judgements are clouded by seeing us shoot ourselves in both feet and get thumped, and maybe some are viewing the game with bravery glasses.
No need to turn on each other just because we see things differently.

Ange and Udogie mucked up last night IMHO, but if they don't have "credit in the bank" then no one does. Their mistakes were made with the best intentions and I find it difficult to be too hard on them.
Ange acted like a pro in that interview, that was class and exactly what I want to see our manager do. We fudged up, own it, don't run around blaming everyone else.
We had an opportunity to humiliate them last night and took our eye off the ball, there was an awful lot of good in that game that was thrown away with some sheer stupidity. If we had played our game, stuck to the managers plan and played our football Poch would have been getting sacked next week.
We had them on toast.

Romero in particular, but a few others need a good talking to.
 
I don't think Ange had a choice with the high line when we're down to 9. He had lost both first choice CBs and his left back. We've shown in the past that we cannot effectively play a low block let alone without our best players. It wasn't like the Liverpool game where they had 3 CBs on at the end.

Hard to say we were unlucky when many of the problems were self inflicted. However to lose Madders, VDV and Romero in one game is difficult to make up. The goons will be loving it.

Vicario was superb last night and Dier, for someone who has played no games this season acquitted himself well.
 
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The VAR ruined the game for me but the injuries concern me a lot more than the result or the game itself. If someone had offered me 8 wins in the first 11 games three months ago, I'd have bitten their hand off. The most important thing was to start the season well in order to avoid questions being raised about Postecoglou's pedigree and that's what happened. It's great. The players seem to have bought into the system and, when we're at full strength, we're a match for some very good teams.

We knew from the start we didn't have the squad to compete in the long run though. It was bound to happen sooner or later. We'll have to wait and see what we can do without two major players. Hopefully, they won't be out for too long but even if they are, it doesn't take anything from what we've achieved so far. At full strength, this team is competitive which, considering we've lost (arguably) the best player in the club's history, is no mean feat.

Next step is to beef up the squad either in January or next summer. We've made some excellent signings recently. If the trend continues, there's every reason to be optimistic even if, in the short term, our form takes a hit.
 
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What a game of football. We might have lost but we gave it good old go. Right in it till near the end. If someone had told me before the game we’d not concede for 40 minutes with Dier on and an offside trap set at the half way line and for 30 of those minutes no VDV I’d have laughed. Did we get lucky sometimes, probably. But it was entertaining.

Our defence is fudged for the next little while mind you. Hopefully VdV isn’t as serious as it looked but I don’t hold out much hope.

Also love that Sky tried to bate Ange into blaming the refs. Basically turned into him defending them. Who knows might work in our favour if some refs had seen that, also shows up that muppet down the road.
 
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