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*** Tottenham Hotspur vs Canning Town Caravan Club OMT ***

Benny_Lad said:
I'll give it a go.

Huge slices of luck? An example of a huge slice of luck is an opposition defender mis-cueing a ball over his own goalkeepers head.

1st goal - Sonny produced a piece of quality that was normally lacking in the game and a delivery that was right in the mix and gave the keeper a lot to do - evidently too much to do and he couldn't get enough on to it. Yes it fell at Harry's feet but that what you get when you are in the right place and have a strikers instinct.

2nd goal - Another quality piece of play from Sonny, too much skill for the defender who dived in haplessly and was too late for the ball, and could only take Sonny's foot. No luck involved there for me, just a forward player getting the better of a defensive player.

I think people are getting clouded by the timing of the goals rather then their nature. Lets remember a game of football is 90+ minutes long and those 2 pieces of quality, had they arrived after 60 mins for example, would have been filed in the 'quality play' basket rather than the 'hugely lucky' basket - imo.

At most I would say goal 1 was a tiny bit fortunate, but no more fortunate than a mis-hit shot falling straight on a players head as he runs in toward goal, or a referee awarding a penalty for holding.
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Son could make that same cross another 10 times and the keeper wouldn't give Kane the open goal in any of them. It was luck.

And Nordtveit should never have slid in like that with Son so close to the touchline. Reckless challenge that got what it deserved. Most players would be smart enough not to do that. Again, luck.
 
Most goals are scored because of mistakes somewhere in the play, so i see no difference with ours against most goals scored over the season. I was at the game and we did not play at our best ( once again) but if any team deserved to win over the 90 minutes it was us.
 
No one has mentioned the 442 diamond formation we started with in the post match reaction.
That formation was a mess. Poch knew West Ham were gonna play a 343 and he wrongly played the 41212.
We had no width with it. It was 1 versus 2 out wide. Both full backs had to pick up the west ham wide player in their front three and the wing back.

Poch eventually changed back to a 4231 at around 35 minutes in. From then on we looked much better.
We had width and were in control. Then Janssen fudged up and the momentum was with West Ham.

It wasn't until Poch eventually got all out players in their proper positions that we could finally have a go at them again.
Winks in central midfield not out the right. Kane up top not playing as the number 10 like he was for 30 minutes (Jansson would never have scored the tap in he did). Son wide on the left, he went out right and Eriksen out left when he first came on.

Hopefully we can now go back to playing a 4231 with out players playing in their best positions.
 
parklane1 said:
Most goals are scored because of mistakes somewhere in the play, so i see no difference with ours against most goals scored over the season. I was at the game and we did not play at our best ( once again) but if any team deserved to win over the 90 minutes it was us.
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Spot on

For me what really impressed was the fight we showed in that last 15 minutes or so. Good old fashioned sleeves rolled up grit.
 
Modric THFC said:
No one has mentioned the 442 diamond formation we started with in the post match reaction.
That formation was a mess. Poch knew West Ham were gonna play a 343 and he wrongly played the 41212.
We had no width with it. It was 1 versus 2 out wide. Both full backs had to pick up the west ham wide player in their front three and the wing back.

Poch eventually changed back to a 4231 at around 35 minutes in. From then on we looked much better.
We had width and were in control. Then Janssen fudged up and the momentum was with West Ham.

It wasn't until Poch eventually got all out players in their proper positions that we could finally have a go at them again.
Winks in central midfield not out the right. Kane up top not playing as the number 10 like he was for 30 minutes (Jansson would never have scored the tap in he did). Son wide on the left, he went out right and Eriksen out left when he first came on.

Hopefully we can now go back to playing a 4231 with out players playing in their best positions.
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It did seem strange to me that Son came on and started playing on the right. He gave the ball away quite a few times in that position. When he switched to the left, where most of his good work has come this season, I don't think it was a coincidence that he was then instrumental in the two goals. Hopefully Poch has learned.....Son, he plays on the left!!!!!!!!! (now where have I heard that before!!!!!)
 
StephenH said:
Spot on

For me what really impressed was the fight we showed in that last 15 minutes or so. Good old fashioned sleeves rolled up grit.
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I agree, we have not really hit top form so far this season so to be where we are is promising. Its not just the injurys that have affected us its also because we have a few players who have nor performed to their best. The likes of Eriksen, Lamela, Alli, Dembélé have not shown what they can do consistently , once those players bring their A game to the table i would hazard a guess and say we will be playing a lot better.
 
parklane1 said:
Most goals are scored because of mistakes somewhere in the play, so i see no difference with ours against most goals scored over the season. I was at the game and we did not play at our best ( once again) but if any team deserved to win over the 90 minutes it was us.
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Exactly. It was lucky that Wet Spam's first header went off the bar and luckily hit whoever got their cross in instead of one of our own players. It was lucky that they got the corner in the first place, Rose almost got it out for a throw. It was lucky that the ref judged Janssen to pull whoever it was, and it was lucky that they got that corner as well. "Lucky". If mistakes, one way or the other, weren't a part of football, all matches would end 0-0.
 
Modric THFC said:
No one has mentioned the 442 diamond formation we started with in the post match reaction.
That formation was a mess. Poch knew West Ham were gonna play a 343 and he wrongly played the 41212.
We had no width with it. It was 1 versus 2 out wide. Both full backs had to pick up the west ham wide player in their front three and the wing back.

Poch eventually changed back to a 4231 at around 35 minutes in. From then on we looked much better.
We had width and were in control. Then Janssen fudged up and the momentum was with West Ham.

It wasn't until Poch eventually got all out players in their proper positions that we could finally have a go at them again.
Winks in central midfield not out the right. Kane up top not playing as the number 10 like he was for 30 minutes (Jansson would never have scored the tap in he did). Son wide on the left, he went out right and Eriksen out left when he first came on.

Hopefully we can now go back to playing a 4231 with out players playing in their best positions.
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This is what really got me. The worst part is the 3 vs 2 we had up front. I mean that is surely tactics 101, the back 3 originated as a counter-measure for a front 2!

Now I am not suddenly going to denounce the tactical ability of the best Spurs manager of my lifetime, but I would love to know the thinking behind the 4-1-2-1-2, because to me it was a frankly bizarre selection.
 
Having said that I do like how we are developing several different game plans, and if these are the teething problems then so be it. When we switch it up in the CL final and paste Real Madrid it won't matter.
 
SUIYHA said:
Son could make that same cross another 10 times and the keeper wouldn't give Kane the open goal in any of them. It was luck.

And Nordtveit should never have slid in like that with Son so close to the touchline. Reckless challenge that got what it deserved. Most players would be smart enough not to do that. Again, luck.
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Your definition of luck is different to most other people's. And surely wrong.

You simply cannot make that first call with any more confidence than if I were to say that Son's cross was so well-delivered that the keeper was forced to try dealing with it but had to extend himself too much to effectively repel it meaning that 50% of the time it'd make its way through for Kane to score.

With your last point, what if Son targeted Nordtveit hoping for such rash action (and who is to say he didn't have that in mind) Are we now to say that we are lucky when a certain player is fielded against us in a certain position? Or unlucky when the opposition's main player is fit and in form? Or lucky when a keeper dives the wrong way against a Kane penalty? Or unlucky when Lloris does the same?

Luck is to do with random chance rather than deliberate action. In both goals, Son's deliberate choices and actions had a major (the major?) part to play in getting the goals.
 
JerusalemMan said:
Your definition of luck is different to most other people's. And surely wrong.

You simply cannot make that first call with any more confidence than if I were to say that Son's cross was so well-delivered that the keeper was forced to try dealing with it but had to extend himself too much to effectively repel it meaning that 50% of the time it'd make its way through for Kane to score.

With your last point, what if Son targeted Nordtveit hoping for such rash action (and who is to say he didn't have that in mind) Are we now to say that we are lucky when a certain player is fielded against us in a certain position? Or unlucky when the opposition's main player is fit and in form? Or lucky when a keeper dives the wrong way against a Kane penalty? Or unlucky when Lloris does the same?

Luck is to do with random chance rather than deliberate action. In both goals, Son's deliberate choices and actions had a major (the major?) part to play in getting the goals.
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I have a feeling we're going to go round and round in circles with this. All I'd say is that if Vorm had done what Randolph did, and if Carroll had done what Nordveit did, there would be no talk on here about their players "targeting ours for such rash action". We'd be calling them careless fudge ups, just like they were. Those sorts of things don't happen very often and therefore if they happen in your favour (twice in the space of a few minutes), it's lucky.
 
This was a much needed win. It was sweet the way we came back to win with 2 last min goals. But wish we had won this match more comfortably. It was really tense right until the match was over. For a while, thought we were going to lose our unbeaten league record. We had to ride our luck for this win. West Ham had enough chances to kill the game off. Fortunately for us, they failed to do that and their defensive errors allowed us to score the late goals.

Credit to Winks and Kane for the goals. I think the goal by Winks was crucial for us as until then we didn't look like scoring a goal. it was nice to see a youngster scoring the goal on his league debut. But really wish Janssen had scored the goal instead. He badly need a goal and really should have scored with his shot which was saved by the goalie before scored by Winks. The way Janssen gave away the penalty for their second goal will not help his confidence at all. Great to see Kane continuing his goal run after coming back from injury. Both his goals were well taken goals even if the first one was a tap in.

Felt our midfield didn't have a good match as West Ham had too many chances. Winks played well for his league debut but players like Wanyama and Dembele failed to control the midfield. It was annoying to see Eriksen wasting another freekick as well. At least Son had a big impact when he came on, creating both the goals for Kane.

It was really annoying the way we conceded both the goals. The West Ham player had all the time in the world to head the ball in for the first goal. I think we badly miss Alderweireld as he would have covered this. It was really stupid of Janssen to give away the soft penalty for their second goal. This is why I don't like strikers defending near our goal. They tend to make silly mistakes when defending.

It was great to get our first win in 8 matches. We have now extend our unbeaten start to 12 matches in the league. Let's hope we can now go on a winning run.
 
SUIYHA said:
Son could make that same cross another 10 times and the keeper wouldn't give Kane the open goal in any of them. It was luck.

And Nordtveit should never have slid in like that with Son so close to the touchline. Reckless challenge that got what it deserved. Most players would be smart enough not to do that. Again, luck.
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Sure. And Janssen's shot was good, but it ending up straight at the feet of Winks was also lucky.

However there was just as much luck involved in the two West Ham goals. Like I said before, 2 goals from 5 corners. Even Pulis would consider that somewhat lucky.

We got some luck towards the end, they got some luck earlier in the game. But overall we played better. When you play better than the other side and win it's not all luck.
 
It was a strange feeling being back in the ground after so many years away. I wasn't enjoying it hugely until the last two minutes. It was hilarious and we all went nuts when those two goals went in. Outside was a bit lively afterwards. The east London Neanderthals seemed a little upset.
 
Yermiyahu said:
It was a strange feeling being back in the ground after so many years away. I wasn't enjoying it hugely until the last two minutes. It was hilarious and we all went nuts when those two goals went in. Outside was a bit lively afterwards. The east London Neanderthals seemed a little upset.
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Not covered in meejah AFAIK - any details ?
 
SUIYHA said:
Son could make that same cross another 10 times and the keeper wouldn't give Kane the open goal in any of them. It was luck.

And Nordtveit should never have slid in like that with Son so close to the touchline. Reckless challenge that got what it deserved. Most players would be smart enough not to do that. Again, luck.
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I disagree on your first point. I think the keeper will always try to intercept a cross like that. It was going right across the edge of the six yard box.
 
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