Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
You are so proving yourself wrong, yet again, it is hardly sport any more for me to do so. You ( ie Glorygloryeze) said it was AVB who FIRST played Bale centrally. I showed you it was Harry. Don't you remember all those " Bale, he plays on the left" chants under Harry , by a sizeable section of our support who didn't want him to play centrally.
You have lost the plot with your rose tinted views on AVB. Your statement that we actually played quite well in the 6-0 defeat at City clearly outs you in this respect.
Oh boy. I'm going to have to be really thorough. Here goes....
It starts here in thread Post 8410: by Pirate55 to BOL
Any actual evidence of this? Bale could equally well have said Harry played me in a few games
there and I really like it. I don't like where you have been playing me as I don't get involved enough stuck out on the
left? In this scenario, it was Bale himself who identified his best position as the coach had failed to spot it.
Everything is speculation.
Post 8156: by BOL in reply to Pirate55
??? Bale has credited AVB with helping improve his game. And then it happened. There was no
public challenge to the manager's authority and the whole relationship worked extremely well for both parties. Who did
Bale jump into the arms of when he scored the winner at West Ham?
Post 8162: by Pirate55 in reply to BOL
Bale also credited Harry with improving his game. My point was that it took Bale to go to AVB to
insist he played centrally. AVB didn't recognize this potential until Bale pointed it out to him.
I, Glorygloryeze, notice post 8162, am intrigued and ask for quotes for you to back this up, i.e that Bale was moved to play centrally not because AVB recognised the potential there but because Bale insisted he play there (as i suspect you are just finding more straws to beat AVB with)
Post 8166: by GloryGloryeze to Pirate55
Unless you can back this up with creditable quotes, you're again painting lovely
pictures...:-"
BOL also questions you on this: post 8168 BOL to Pirate55
I think we're really reaching here if we're saying it was all Bale, that he had to bash it into
the oblivious AVB's eyes and that the manager had nothing to do with it. Bale came to AVB, and said he wasn't as involved
in the games as he would like to be. AVB listened (good man management I guess?) and worked with him on his game to the
extent where he became the world's most expensive player. They developed such a strong relationship to the point where
Bale made it fairly freaking obvious how much he respected AVB through his goal celebrations, and his support for him
this season when the rumours were that AVB was done remained.
I don't understand how the Bale situation is being used to make any point. Well done to Bale for caring enough to seize
an opportunity to better himself. Well done to AVB for taking it on board and working with him. It has nothing to do with
Ade, who went to AVB, didn't like the answer he got and then publicly challenged the manager in front of the squad. Last
season loads of players said that AVB's door was always open and that they could talk to him about anything. There's
probably so many instances of discussions that were had that we aren't aware of, that lead to positive contributions on
the pitch.
Pirate55 reply to BOL: post 8173
My point here is that it was Bale that had to go to AVB and initiate this switch, not the other
way round. I haven't said AVB played no part in his development as you infer. The fact is that it was Harry that first
played Bale centrally.
I, Glorygloryeze, again ask you to back up your claim that the change of position for Bale from left to central ONLY HAPPENED BECAUSE BALE HAD TO GO TO AVB AND INITIATE THE SWITCH: Post 8175 to Pirate55
I ask again, WHERE are the quotes for this??
Pirate55, reply to my question: post 8178
Generally accepted, see BOL above.
GloryGloryEze reply; post 8181
So you have no quotes then?
I'll just file it under the "straws Pirate likes to beat AVB with"
Pirate55 reply; Post 8183
File it where you like. That doesn't change a thing.
Do you think it was AVB in his wisdom to first take the decision to play Bale there?
Glorygloryeze reply; Post 8186;
Yes I do. Happy for you to prove me wrong though
NOTE: I was saying it was AVB's decision IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 2012-13 season to move Bale centrally. That it was AVB's decision from a managerial/tactial point of view, NOT based on just doing it because Bale asked him to do so. I wanted you to prove that it was in fact just based on Bale speaking to AVB. Rememeber Bale started on the left of the attack that season. It was IN NO WAY a reference to the previous season under Harry. We were talking about AVB and Bale in the 2012-13 season.
BOL also asked you to clarify, in post 8191:
Where has this thing about Bale come from though? It started off as a thing about Ade
disagreeing with AVB both in private and public, and Bale was brought in to show that another player has had a private
meeting, but it's morphed into another thing AVB should be criticised for? I just don't get how.
For one, Bale didn't publicly question the authority of the manager. For another, Bale's performances under AVB lead to
him becoming the most expensive player ever. The respect Bale had for AVB was obvious. How is AVB in any way getting
criticised for his handling of Bale here? If it's for anything it's an entirely different point to the Ade one, and it
seems to be nothing more than AVB didn't play Bale centrally sooner. Bale's performances centrally under Harry weren't
consistent or anything to right home about in any way like they were under AVB. If Bale knocked on AVB's door, it wasn't
to demand to play central and AVB let it happen and Bale did it all. Bale knocked on his door, thought he could be
getting more involved, and both he and AVB figured out a way to get the best out of it. Bale talked a lot last season
about how AVB's tactical work was helping him a lot.
I really don't see where AVB gets criticised on Bale at all.
You, i.e. Pirate55, then replied in post 8195:
It wasn't AVB at all who first played Bale centrally. It was Harry. Against Norwich away.
Unless you can find me quotes to prove me wrong.
This is where you prove that you've got your own posts mixed up.
We were not talking about Bale under Harry, we were talking about Bale under AVB. Of course Harry had started using Bale in central positions sporadically. No one disputed that.
What YOU were stating is that AVB (who had started Bale on the left at the start of his tenure managing Spurs) only moved Bale centrally after Bale had a word directly with AVB pleading with him to do so. Thereby finding another straw to beat him with: i.e. anything good that happened under AVB was nothing to do with his decision making or management. Instead of backing this up, you started getting yourself twisted and started bringing in the fact that Harry was the first manager to ever move him central; as though either myself or BOL ever said anything to the contrary.
No it was you losing the plot, and it's outlined clearly above. Harry was not being spoken of until you brought him into the conversation.
I bet if not for Millsy-Yiddo's post you wouldn't have any quotes to back your point up.
In fact, actually do you (or Millsy) have a link to any of these articles, because that story is interesting (regardless of how anyone paints it for or against AVB).
Your last point about my rose tinted glasses: I said that the performance in the 6-0 vs City was not as bad as the scoreline suggested; i didn't say it was good. I said it was not 6-0 bad. It was in reply to a post by DTA who watched he game again and felt it was not a 6-0 bad performance. I agreed. Was DTA also wearing rose-tinted glasses?? My point was that compared to other maulings we've taken this season our gameplay was not as bad as the scoreline suggested; just that City were VERY ruthless that day and they exposed our highline ruthlessly. It was the worst final score/result but not the worst performance this season imo.
No rose-tinted glasses at all.
Compare that to your views:
- AVB "broke" Verts forever because he played him at left-back for a while when neccesary; Shall i bother mentioning that he plays left-back for his national team? Is he forever "broken" when he plays for Belgium as well?
- EVERY new signing was "badly managed by AVB";
- AVB left a "broken squad" and "impossible situation" for TS (i thought we were 7th and not bottom with 4 points from 16 games??)
- Winning a scrappy game 1-0 under TS: Great; Winning a scrappy game 1-0 under AVB: Bad.
Yep. Very balanced.
In fact, can I ask you: is there ANY part of AVB's tenure that you will give him POSITIVE credit for? I'll await your reply to this before asking you some TS questions..
