Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Here's the one that I took the quotes from (although there were many, from different sources):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2376974/Gareth-Bales-respect-Andre-Villas-Boas-Tottenham--Neil-Ashton.html

Here's one where AVB is saying he should take no credit for the move as he only done it due to lack of striking options and because Bale came to him:

http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1442473/andre-villas-boas-refuses-credit-moving-bale-central-role?cc=5739

In all honesty I think the one above proves Pirate correct, specifically the following bits;


"We tested it (Bale as a striker) out of necessity," Villas-Boas said. "We didn't have Defoe for the game against Liverpool and not Adebayor either. It was out of necessity.It wasn't in my mind to do this when I came here."

With this following it;

Villas-Boas confirmed the move to switch Bale to the centre came after the Wales international requested to be given more freedom to go for goals in a meeting at Tottenham's Enfield training base, with the idea subsequently embraced by his manager.

"I said to all of my teams that they can come into my office if they want," he stated. "It's no problem. Gareth and I had a conversation and you can see that he is enjoying his football playing in this position. His performances have been exceptional."

Thanks for the links. I think it can be looked at both ways; Yes Bale requested more freedom and the idea was subsequently embraced after he was 'left short of attacking options'. Bale came to AVB at the beginning od the season and later took the suggestion on board.

I see that as coming about both from the early suggestion from Bale AND from AVB making a tactical decision to do so given that our attack were mis-firing.

I'm have never said this can be used to "hail AVB as a tactical genius", but tbf AVB could have stubbornly said "No! My way or the high way!"
Perhaps he did know when to take on board suggestions and when he didn't feel it would benefit the team/had a choice (e.g. Verts at LB vs Naughton at LB).

Of course if you want to sully EVERYTHING AVB did then of course you will use this as another straw to say "AVB didn't know what he was doing: he should have benched Defoe and Ade from summer 2012 straight away and played Bale up front from the start"

Thanks again for the links

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Here's the one that I took the quotes from (although there were many, from different sources):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2376974/Gareth-Bales-respect-Andre-Villas-Boas-Tottenham--Neil-Ashton.html

Here's one where AVB is saying he should take no credit for the move as he only done it due to lack of striking options and because Bale came to him:

http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1442473/andre-villas-boas-refuses-credit-moving-bale-central-role?cc=5739

In all honesty I think the one above proves Pirate correct, specifically the following bits;


"We tested it (Bale as a striker) out of necessity," Villas-Boas said. "We didn't have Defoe for the game against Liverpool and not Adebayor either. It was out of necessity.It wasn't in my mind to do this when I came here."

With this following it;

Villas-Boas confirmed the move to switch Bale to the centre came after the Wales international requested to be given more freedom to go for goals in a meeting at Tottenham's Enfield training base, with the idea subsequently embraced by his manager.

"I said to all of my teams that they can come into my office if they want," he stated. "It's no problem. Gareth and I had a conversation and you can see that he is enjoying his football playing in this position. His performances have been exceptional."

Thanks again Millsy. It appears he refuses to believe cold hard evidence if it doesn't accord with his pre-conceived views of AVB.

GGE, you have asked me to think of something positive to say about AVB. Here goes : Bale became a world class player during his time as manager ( although how much was down to AVB and how much was down to the player himself is rightly a matter of debate). After that, perhaps you would help me out and identify his attributes during his 18 months at the club?

I know this is the TS thread and so off topic, but am happy to debate with you any time, any place, anywhere, the merits ( or otherwise) of AVB's time at Spurs. However, Milo suggested we leave it and I am also happy to put this topic to bed as there will clearly never be any agreement between us on this issue and as he ain't coming back it is all rather academic anyway.

 

[chancer]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Lads, let's keep the AVB discussion in the The decision to fire AVB thread here: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/5989-The-decision-to-fire-AVB?p=541327#post541327.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

These are all fair questions; what are your sources? Do you have any links?

I'll try and dig out some links tonight but from memory (if anyone else wants to find them):

Head injury - need to check where I read it but it was clear from the handling/press conferences that there were disagreements.

Baldini disagreement over training intensity - second captain podcast immediately after AVB left the club.

Freund argument - Neil Ashton article in the Mail immediately after AVB left the club.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Lads, let's keep the AVB discussion in the The decision to fire AVB thread here: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/5989-The-decision-to-fire-AVB?p=541327#post541327.

Quite right and sorry for posting AVB stuff immediately afterwards

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Thanks again Millsy. It appears he refuses to believe cold hard evidence if it doesn't accord with his pre-conceived views of AVB.

See my answer to Millsy. You love a scrap dontcha? :lol:

GGE, you have asked me to think of something positive to say about AVB. Here goes : Bale became a world class player during his time as manager ( although how much was down to AVB and how much was down to the player himself is rightly a matter of debate). After that, perhaps you would help me out and identify his attributes during his 18 months at the club?

Gladly:

- Instilled a 'hang in there' attitude amongst the players; we got a lot of late goals in his first season. They became later and later, which contrasted from leaking late gaols in the first few months; (this started to tail off in Autumn 2013, though I believe we would have regained this trait later in the season but we will never know obviously)

- Got us to be taken even more seriously by the big 4/5 teams away from home. Redknapp got us feared by them often at WHL, but too often away from home would bend over (e.g. at OT!!)

- showed how if we take the cups (esp he EL) seriously we could punch above our weight and have a larg-ish squad; players can be rotated in EL games to test formations etc. I felt we failed repeatedly in the end under Redknapp because he didn't rotate much unless forced to and when squaddies came in they were physically underprepared as well as tactically. Whilst AVB didn't always rotate as much as he should (e.g. asking Lennon if he wanted to come off vs Inter instead of just taking him off before that dreaded injury, which killed us imo) he showed how a club like ours can build a larg-ish squad AND compete with those with bigger budgets by taking cups including the EL seriously. Compare that to say Redknapp who just played reserves in the EL but didn't see it as an opportunity to REALLY test tactics formations etc. See the wasting of talents such as Corluka, Pienaar and Krancjar. Under a manager who attempts to use a greater amount of a squad these players could have got us to finish 3rd in 2011/12 when others waned.

- gave good game time to some of our English youngsters within the above squad: Naughton, Livermore, Caulker, Carroll. I think he may have had long-term plans for Carroll and Livermore. I know from a good source that Livermore liked him. It's perhaps a shame he didn't play Kane more often because even if he ends up not good enough for us, it nice to have an English CF option at times.

- Got Arsenal fans scared of us (believe me even when they pipped us last season in the end, when playing us they feared us as they knew possession and fancy-flowing attacking for them wasn't a given).

I know this is the TS thread and so off topic, but am happy to debate with you any time, any place, anywhere, the merits ( or otherwise) of AVB's time at Spurs. However, Milo suggested we leave it and I am also happy to put this topic to bed as there will clearly never be any agreement between us on this issue and as he ain't coming back it is all rather academic anyway.

It is indeed the TS thread; see my question to you earlier in the thread.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

See my answer to Millsy. You love a scrap dontcha? :lol:



Gladly:

- Instilled a 'hang in there' attitude amongst the players; we got a lot of late goals in his first season. They became later and later, which contrasted from leaking late gaols in the first few months; (this started to tail off in Autumn 2013, though I believe we would have regained this trait later in the season but we will never know obviously)

- Got us to be taken even more seriously by the big 4/5 teams away from home. Redknapp got us feared by them often at WHL, but too often away from home would bend over (e.g. at OT!!)

- showed how if we take the cups (esp he EL) seriously we could punch above our weight and have a larg-ish squad; players can be rotated in EL games to test formations etc. I felt we failed repeatedly in the end under Redknapp because he didn't rotate much unless forced to and when squaddies came in they were physically underprepared as well as tactically. Whilst AVB didn't always rotate as much as he should (e.g. asking Lennon if he wanted to come off vs Inter instead of just taking him off before that dreaded injury, which killed us imo) he showed how a club like ours can build a larg-ish squad AND compete with those with bigger budgets by taking cups including the EL seriously. Compare that to say Redknapp who just played reserves in the EL but didn't see it as an opportunity to REALLY test tactics formations etc. See the wasting of talents such as Corluka, Pienaar and Krancjar. Under a manager who attempts to use a greater amount of a squad these players could have got us to finish 3rd in 2011/12 when others waned.

- gave good game time to some of our English youngsters within the above squad: Naughton, Livermore, Caulker, Carroll. I think he may have had long-term plans for Carroll and Livermore. I know from a good source that Livermore liked him. It's perhaps a shame he didn't play Kane more often because even if he ends up not good enough for us, it nice to have an English CF option at times.

- Got Arsenal fans scared of us (believe me even when they pipped us last season in the end, when playing us they feared us as they knew possession and fancy-flowing attacking for them wasn't a given).



It is indeed the TS thread; see my question to you earlier in the thread.

As you seem obsessed with me, see my answer re TS earlier in this thread. Unlike some, I don't hold cows sacred and try to bring objectivity to my views based on evidence, not some pre-conceived notion that everything done by one manager is necessarily bad and everything done by another is always good - unlike your good self .

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

If you two can't be civil please ignore each other.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

As you seem obsessed with me, see my answer re TS earlier in this thread. Unlike some, I don't hold cows sacred and try to bring objectivity to my views based on evidence, not some pre-conceived notion that everything done by one manager is necessarily bad and everything done by another is always good - unlike your good self .

Sorry, but not sure if you've seen my post where I asked you; It's no 8238 in this thread (previous page)?
Or perhaps I've missed your answer? Apologies if so, and please point it out to me
Ta

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Sorry, but not sure if you've seen my post where I asked you; It's no 8238 in this thread (previous page)?
Or perhaps I've missed your answer? Apologies if so, and please point it out to me
Ta

Can't be arsed to find it for you. You appear to like research, find it yourself.

You broke our pact not to mention AVB again. What I take from that is that your obsession overrides your integrity.

From now on, I am taking Milos advice and ignoring you. Please do the same for me. Thank you

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Back to Sherwood.

It seems clear he wont be managing us next season...where do people think he SHOULD be managing next?
Where do people think he WILL be managing next?

I am assuming that now he has had a taste of the first-team management bug he wont want to go back to his old role at the club.

Thoughts?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Back to Sherwood.

It seems clear he wont be managing us next season...where do people think he SHOULD be managing next?
Where do people think he WILL be managing next?

I am assuming that now he has had a taste of the first-team management bug he wont want to go back to his old role at the club.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure if anything will happen for him.

Everything I've seen/read of him suggests that he'll think any job he's likely to get offered (bottom half Championship at best) to be below him.

I suspect we''ll see him on TV soon enough doing what he loves best - flapping his gob about. If we're really lucky he might treat us to insights about shuffling across and playing with heart. The anti-Gary Neville if you like.

 

[Rob]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Back to Sherwood.

It seems clear he wont be managing us next season...where do people think he SHOULD be managing next?
Where do people think he WILL be managing next?

I am assuming that now he has had a taste of the first-team management bug he wont want to go back to his old role at the club.

Thoughts?

I'd disagree with the last part strongly - as part of taking the job he said he could never go back to being anything other than first team manager, but then the second his tenure saw cracks appearing in it his line quickly changed to touting himself off for baldini's job.

 

[clownfoot]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

He publicly stated he doesn't want his old job back, and also at one point publicly stated he will be our manager next season. Wherever he ends up, whatever reputation he initially had (owing a lot to his playing career I imagine) will be seriously damaged. But not beyond repair

 

[Cochise]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

1) I reckon he should pick out a job at a decent Championship outfit. Not one that is struggling nor one that is flying high, just a decent outfit where there won't be tonnes of pressure. He should aim to have that team pushing for the playoffs by the end of his second/third season in charge.

2) I actually think he will end up at somewhere like Norwich or will get a job at one of the newly promoted clubs in December when their boards kneejerk and kick the current manager out. Its bound to happen at one of the three clubs that get promoted and if he's free I'd expect his name to be in the frame.

3) I think his time at Spurs is finished and much of that is his own doing. No doubt he could've stayed and carried on his training here, but because of all he has said and done in the past few months he has narrowed his options. I remember a few months back he and Baldini were both pressing Levy to recruit their own preference into the scouting dept (may have been the head of role) and both had different views. I personally do agree with Sherwood that we should be looking to scout players from the more immediate region but at the same time we shouldn't ignore great players from overseas.

If Baldini were to walk at the end of the season, I would be worried if Sherwood took over in that technical role. As you say though he seems to have the management bug so I think it's coaching or nothing for him for the immediate future.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I could easily see an ex club giving him a go, other than that he's probably gonna have to drop down a fair bit and build a reputation, he's done enough to not be a pariah like Steve Keen but that's about it.

Don't forget RDM and Avram Grant got CL finals and it still didn't guarantee them a proper job afterwards.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Back to Sherwood.

It seems clear he wont be managing us next season...where do people think he SHOULD be managing next?
Where do people think he WILL be managing next?

I am assuming that now he has had a taste of the first-team management bug he wont want to go back to his old role at the club.

Thoughts?

I reckon he'll apply for Norwich, but not get it. Then he'll end up at Swindon where his mate is the chairman.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm not sure if anything will happen for him.

Everything I've seen/read of him suggests that he'll think any job he's likely to get offered (bottom half Championship at best) to be below him.

I suspect we''ll see him on TV soon enough doing what he loves best - flapping his gob about. If we're really lucky he might treat us to insights about shuffling across and playing with heart. The anti-Gary Neville if you like.

agree with all that.....i dont see Sherwood staying in management for more than a year or two more

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

1) I reckon he should pick out a job at a decent Championship outfit. Not one that is struggling nor one that is flying high, just a decent outfit where there won't be tonnes of pressure. He should aim to have that team pushing for the playoffs by the end of his second/third season in charge.

2) I actually think he will end up at somewhere like Norwich or will get a job at one of the newly promoted clubs in December when their boards kneejerk and kick the current manager out. Its bound to happen at one of the three clubs that get promoted and if he's free I'd expect his name to be in the frame.

3) I think his time at Spurs is finished and much of that is his own doing. No doubt he could've stayed and carried on his training here, but because of all he has said and done in the past few months he has narrowed his options. I remember a few months back he and Baldini were both pressing Levy to recruit their own preference into the scouting dept (may have been the head of role) and both had different views. I personally do agree with Sherwood that we should be looking to scout players from the more immediate region but at the same time we shouldn't ignore great players from overseas.

If Baldini were to walk at the end of the season, I would be worried if Sherwood took over in that technical role. As you say though he seems to have the management bug so I think it's coaching or nothing for him for the immediate future.

I think that was GB speculating rather than anything reliable but I could be wrong.