The 'If You Still Need to Purge Yourself Of Ange' Thread

[BrainOfLevy]

I wanted him gone but we would not have lost 22 games again. The question is how much less?

How was he going to lose 12 less games, concede 20+ less goals, score 28 more points? all while in CL. Too much to expect without some major change in playing style (which isn't him), tactics/coaching plus (obviously) some re-enforcements.

Genuinely I just feel that we would have been back in the top 6. We got 5th in his first season. People say no Europe to contend with and that’s fair, but it was also a squad that had just lost Kane, and also wasn’t totally suited to playing his system. We had Deki on the right that season - not ideal. We had Son through the middle a lot. We had Romero, VDV and Maddison missing a lot of games. So you can look at it from all sides as to whether it was or wasn’t a good achievement, but at the end of the day, he got 5th.

I think an Ange third season with a deeper, more experienced squad would have been absolutely fine in the league. Proper touchline hugging wingers. Actual depth. Probably normalised injuries. That’s where those additional points come from.

I just don’t get why people would be so sure that it would be so hard to get back into the top 6 at least in the league. When in his first season he was 5th. And 3 points off 4th. There are things that gave him an easier ride, like no Europe. And there are things that would have made it harder for him, like having a squad not perfectly suited to his style, and bedding in his system. And losing Kane. So in the round, he still got 5th.

It can’t be proven obviously. We’ll never know. But losing 22 games was such a ridiculous anomaly.

 

[veryoldspur]

ENIC out!

Frank's a limited small-club charlatan who'll never take us to the top level.

There.

So apart from Spurs Ange managed a club in Japan and the only team in Scotland. Perhaps you would rather carry on losing game after game after game, then watch him embarrass himself and the club when being interviewed by the press. He was an incompetent idiot who manged us to beat Frankfurt and a poor Utd side so we could lift a trophy

 

[tommysvr]

Genuinely I just feel that we would have been back in the top 6. We got 5th in his first season. People say no Europe to contend with and that’s fair, but it was also a squad that had just lost Kane, and also wasn’t totally suited to playing his system. We had Deki on the right that season - not ideal. We had Son through the middle a lot. We had Romero, VDV and Maddison missing a lot of games. So you can look at it from all sides as to whether it was or wasn’t a good achievement, but at the end of the day, he got 5th.

I think an Ange third season with a deeper, more experienced squad would have been absolutely fine in the league. Proper touchline hugging wingers. Actual depth. Probably normalised injuries. That’s where those additional points come from.

I just don’t get why people would be so sure that it would be so hard to get back into the top 6 at least in the league. When in his first season he was 5th. And 3 points off 4th. There are things that gave him an easier ride, like no Europe. And there are things that would have made it harder for him, like having a squad not perfectly suited to his style, and bedding in his system. And losing Kane. So in the round, he still got 5th.

It can’t be proven obviously. We’ll never know. But losing 22 games was such a ridiculous anomaly.

I agree with all of what you say but for me the argument is beyond that now. It’s just about putting some respect on the name of the coach that won our first European trophy in 41 years. Seeing so many on here try and explain away why he shouldn’t get any praise for that achievement is an embarrassment.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Or did we win it despite him?

And was it more to do with the level of teams we played in that tournament, compared to what we faced each week in the PL.?

We hadn’t won a European trophy for 41 years, and haven’t been able to sniff anything else other than a League Cup for most of that time, and all of a sudden we’re winning trophies despite the manager who has actually done it everywhere he’s been? This is just insane to me. Why would you be so against the idea that Ange might have had something to do with it? For the purposes of this post I’m not even trying to say he was perfect, best manager ever. But can you see your way to seeing that he might have contributed something to it? To take that away from him ENTIRELY is just extremely disrespectful to the man.

Or even to take away the achievement by saying that actually the teams in the competition weren’t that good…why would you do this? We beat Man United, who beat Bilbao in the semis. Bilbao finished 4th in La Liga. We best Bodo, who beat Lazio in the quarters. Lazio were 7th in Serie A. We beat Frankfurt in the quarters, who were 3rd in the Bundesliga. In a hugely competitive game where we NEEDED to win away.

The teams we beat were all good sides. They were tough matches. We were losing to Leicester at home in the league…I don’t think that actually Leicester are better than Frankfurt and actually the competition against them was too much for us at all. We had to beat some really good teams across Europe to win the trophy that we did.

 

[veryoldspur]

I think he almost certainly could have played in a completely different way to earn more points in the league. But I believe that he wanted to maintain enough of the principles of play so that we still had an identity that the players were bought into and comfortable with, so that in the third season we would be back to where we should be in the league.

Palace managed to win a far harder trophy, finish well above us, and on paper had a much weaker team. Whilst I agree we may have finished higher than 17th next season under Ange, I don't think it would be much higher. Although it was great to win a trophy we should have won anyway, I look back at the Ange days as a complete disaster

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I agree with all of what you say but for me the argument is beyond that now. It’s just about putting some respect on the name of the coach that won our first European trophy in 41 years. Seeing so many on here try and explain away why he shouldn’t get any praise for that achievement is an embarrassment.

Totally agreed.

 

[veryoldspur]

I just don’t get why people would be so sure that it would be so hard to get back into the top 6 at least in the league. When in his first season he was 5th. And 3 points off 4th. There are things that gave him an easier ride, like no Europe. And there are things that would have made it harder for him, like having a squad not perfectly suited to his style, and bedding in his system. And losing Kane. So in the round, he still got 5th.

It can’t be proven obviously. We’ll never know. But losing 22 games was such a ridiculous anomaly.

We finished 5th based on the first ten games of the season before he got sussed out. From that point onward we were relegation material. If you can't see the man was totally out of his depth I can't imagine what you were watching?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Palace managed to win a far harder trophy, finish well above us, and on paper had a much weaker team. Whilst I agree we may have finished higher than 17th next season under Ange, I don't think it would be much higher. Although it was great to win a trophy we should have won anyway, I look back at the Ange days as a complete disaster

If you genuinely think that, there’s literally nothing anyone can say to debate with you. You’re so far on one side of the argument that it’s pointless.

Palace beat Stockport, Doncaster, Millwall at home, Fulham and Villa. Beating City was huge, and I’d never take the achievement away from them. Just like I would never take away the achievement that our club managed.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

We finished 5th based on the first ten games of the season before he got sussed out. From that point onward we were relegation material. If you can't see the man was totally out of his depth I can't imagine what you were watching?

‘Sussed out’ is such a children’s concept of debating football, I’m sorry. It’s completely illogical nonsense. If he was ‘sussed out’, why did we go to Villa towards the end of his first season and smash them?

 

[parklane1]

Haters have to hate, sad really.

 

[billyiddo]

I agree with all of what you say but for me the argument is beyond that now. It’s just about putting some respect on the name of the coach that won our first European trophy in 41 years. Seeing so many on here try and explain away why he shouldn’t get any praise for that achievement is an embarrassment.

Outside of a few fringe extremities I believe the majority respect Ange for winning the EL, are thankful for it and recognise the achievement in winning our first European trophy/any trophy in X amount of years.

However holding those feelings does not preclude you from having other opinions such as him not being good enough at PL level or thinking that the EL as a competition is not as strong as what others believe it to be.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

As I said above, the bigger picture was whether he was actually answering the true question being asked, especially the tougher ones. So many times he could talk for 2-3 mins and when you referred back there was a mismatch between his chosen narrative and the question asked.

Genuinely, why does this matter?

This is something all managers will do.

I also think he was a master of using the press conferences to maintain his aura with the players and the belief that they were going to be winners. And he was dealing with frankly a lot of disrespect from interviewers.

 

[Baleforce]

We hadn’t won a European trophy for 41 years, and haven’t been able to sniff anything else other than a League Cup for most of that time, and all of a sudden we’re winning trophies despite the manager who has actually done it everywhere he’s been? This is just insane to me. Why would you be so against the idea that Ange might have had something to do with it? For the purposes of this post I’m not even trying to say he was perfect, best manager ever. But can you see your way to seeing that he might have contributed something to it? To take that away from him ENTIRELY is just extremely disrespectful to the man.

Or even to take away the achievement by saying that actually the teams in the competition weren’t that good…why would you do this? We beat Man United, who beat Bilbao in the semis. Bilbao finished 4th in La Liga. We best Bodo, who beat Lazio in the quarters. Lazio were 7th in Serie A. We beat Frankfurt in the quarters, who were 3rd in the Bundesliga. In a hugely competitive game where we NEEDED to win away.

The teams we beat were all good sides. They were tough matches. We were losing to Leicester at home in the league…I don’t think that actually Leicester are better than Frankfurt and actually the competition against them was too much for us at all. We had to beat some really good teams across Europe to win the trophy that we did.

United were as bad as us in the league, we beat them twice in the league, despite losing to everyone else. Losing to them reflects very badly on Lyon and Bilbao.

I think the achievement has to be seen in context.

The overall season stats were appalling.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

United were as bad as us in the league, we beat them twice in the league, despite losing to everyone else. Losing to them reflects very badly on Lyon and Bilbao.

I think the achievement has to be seen in context.

The overall season stats were appalling.

You’re asking for context and I might gently say there was context behind us being bad in the league, and also United clearly prioritising Europa too.

But anyway, the point wasn’t that. It was that there are good teams in the Europa League, unarguably good teams.

 

[Baleforce]

You’re asking for context and I might gently say there was context behind us being bad in the league, and also United clearly prioritising Europa too.

But anyway, the point wasn’t that. It was that there are good teams in the Europa League, unarguably good teams.

I disagree, I think the only good team we played in that tournament last season was Galatassary, and they fudging smashed us.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I disagree, I think the only good team we played in that tournament last season was Galatassary, and they fudging smashed us.

You would genuinely contend that Frankfurt are not a good team? Seemingly *because* we beat them? That’s some impressive ability to take away the achievement.

And Galatassaray are the only good team, again seemingly because they beat us? Forster in goal, Gray at left back, Davies and Dragusin at centre back, Lankshear upfront, ten men for much of the game and a 3-2 loss.

 

[Baleforce]

You would genuinely contend that Frankfurt are not a good team? Seemingly *because* we beat them? That’s some impressive ability to take away the achievement.

And Galatassaray are the only good team, again seemingly because they beat us? Forster in goal, Gray at left back, Davies and Dragusin at centre back, Lankshear upfront, ten men for much of the game and a 3-2 loss.

Well, yes, Frankfurt may have been a better team previously, but in the two games against us they were very poor, it’s logical to suggest that as we, despite the level we were at last season, beat them so comfortably (similarly Bodo Glimt), they are a lower level team than most of the PL, who embarrassed us on a weekly basis.

As for Gala, it could have been 7/8 goals to them on the night, 3-2 hugely flattered us, the chances came from our ridiculous defensive system, not the personnel we had trying to implement it.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Well, yes, Frankfurt may have been a better team previously, but in the two games against us they were very poor, it’s logical to suggest that as we, despite the level we were at last season, beat them so comfortably (similarly Bodo Glimt), they are a lower level team than most of the PL, who embarrassed us on a weekly basis.

As for Gala, it could have been 7/8 goals to them on the night, 3-2 hugely flattered us, the chances came from our ridiculous defensive system, not the personnel we had trying to implement it.

Come on mate, that first paragraph is absolutely ridiculous. ‘if they beat us, it’s because they’re loads better. If we beat them, they can’t be any good.’

 

[Baleforce]

Come on mate, that first paragraph is absolutely ridiculous. ‘if they beat us, it’s because they’re loads better. If we beat them, they can’t be any good.’

Not really, we were dogbrick last season, most of the time, the games we won were about the opposition being in a worse mess.

Every correctly prepared team we played last season had a field day against our appalling defending.

 

[Robspur12]

But losing 22 games was such a ridiculous anomaly.

May be it was but maybe it wasn't. Equally winning the Europa League could have been a ridiculous anomaly too. Maybe the stars just aligned in his favour. I mean would you have had confidence that he would have won any of our previous finals since 2009 or even the 2008 one given the way we have performed in other tournaments this season?

Tbh this is just a pointless argument that neither side is going to concede and he's gone now anyway. There just needs to be more respect for the differences in opinion and we're all good supporting the new manager.