The final straw?

[milo]

so what do those that boo want? i guess it's a better performance and a win.

so do those that boo think that booing is inspirational or inhibiting? or do they care less about the effect it has on the players and more about their 'right', their 'entitlement' to vent their anger?

the 'I've paid my money i can do what i want' mindset? the irony being that by booing they just push the thing they want further away.

i read it a number of times yesterday that the players weren't putting in effort, that they didn't care. do fans honestly think that players don't want to win, don't want to achieve, don't want CL, don't want to get picked for the next game? imo it's just the default, easy, catch-all position to say that players don't try, and i don't think it bears close analysis.

the OP makes a number of great points, and i can't help but agree that we've become an entitled, spoilt lot with ever-shortening memories in a place where patience and perspective are quickly drifting from view.

Spot on.

I think that we have seen a number of promising players crushed by the crowd in the past. If the crowd get on players backs then the players will be scared to take risks in case they do not come off. What we are left with then is players who take two touches and pass it sideways.

 

[DHSF]

You do need away fans to have an atmosphere too. Firstly they add to it but secondly it increases the intensity of the situation etc.

I really do think that we just get so wound up with how we are playing at the moment that we just sit there in bewilderment as to how bad we were. Yeah yeah you say we must support and to an extent we do but if you think there is no fudgein give n take from the players too then we got a problem. Its a partnership so to speak its very very difficult to really bring up the enthusiasm out when you really are watching a bunch of strangers on the pitch.

I was singing yesterday and did stand - steward ran up the stairs told me to either sit the fudge down or he will get the 'boss'. That certainly doesnt help.

The songs are brick im sorry but i am not going to sit stand up if you hate arsenal because I dont fudgein care the fudge about fudgein Arsenal. If this is the originality of our songs then we really need to change. Our song repertoire needs to change and I am not sure how the likes of Manure do it but dont they have some kind of supporters group who develop these songs of theirs? we need the same eh.

 

[Jurgen the German]

You do need away fans to have an atmosphere too. Firstly they add to it but secondly it increases the intensity of the situation etc.

I really do think that we just get so wound up with how we are playing at the moment that we just sit there in bewilderment as to how bad we were. Yeah yeah you say we must support and to an extent we do but if you think there is no fudgein give n take from the players too then we got a problem. Its a partnership so to speak its very very difficult to really bring up the enthusiasm out when you really are watching a bunch of strangers on the pitch.

I was singing yesterday and did stand - steward ran up the stairs told me to either sit the fudge down or he will get the 'boss'. That certainly doesnt help.

The songs are brick im sorry but i am not going to sit stand up if you hate arsenal because I dont fudgein care the fudge about fudgein Arsenal. If this is the originality of our songs then we really need to change. Our song repertoire needs to change and I am not sure how the likes of Manure do it but dont they have some kind of supporters group who develop these songs of theirs? we need the same eh.

The stewards are doing their very best to kill the atmosphere at the lane. At one point when we were singing, the stewards to us in the park lane to sit down, as soon as we sat down, the singing stopped, good work stewards!

And why do they NEVER tell the fans in the shelf to sit down??

Did anybody else hear someone shout 'Shoebomber" at Al Habsi yesterday?

 

[paxtonwolf]

You do need away fans to have an atmosphere too. Firstly they add to it but secondly it increases the intensity of the situation etc.

I really do think that we just get so wound up with how we are playing at the moment that we just sit there in bewilderment as to how bad we were. Yeah yeah you say we must support and to an extent we do but if you think there is no fudgein give n take from the players too then we got a problem. Its a partnership so to speak its very very difficult to really bring up the enthusiasm out when you really are watching a bunch of strangers on the pitch.

I was singing yesterday and did stand - steward ran up the stairs told me to either sit the fudge down or he will get the 'boss'. That certainly doesnt help.

The songs are brick im sorry but i am not going to sit stand up if you hate arsenal because I dont fudgein care the fudge about fudgein Arsenal. If this is the originality of our songs then we really need to change. Our song repertoire needs to change and I am not sure how the likes of Manure do it but dont they have some kind of supporters group who develop these songs of theirs? we need the same eh.

This. I cringe when I hear that song. I'd prefer 'Stand up if you love Tottenham'

Let other clubs sing songs like that, I'd rather it be a case of focusing songs on our love for our club than our hate for our rivals

 

[Roy1983]

Start selecting real fans waiting on the waiting list and oust anyone who wants to attend just cos their boyfriend does or play on their phone for 90 minutes and you might get proper fans attending who'll sing and contribute to the atmosphere ffs.

 

[ringo]

I think the atmosphere at the game is a function of a number of variables.

Song repertoire and ease of singing, socio-demographic characteristics of crowd, style of football, performance of team, likeability of manager and his rapport with crowd, cost of tickets. I'm sure there are more.

I've attended games irregularly on and off for 30 years or so. I've sat/stood all over the ground. I would agree that we have been as quiet as I remember this season. Some new songs, a bit of banter from AVB, and less passing back and forth across the defence would help. i have never ever been as bored watching Spurs as some of this season's first half home performances.

But for those who think the booing at White Hart Lane is bad - try going to a Millwall game - they've got abusing the home side down to a fine art.

 

[Danners9]

Start selecting real fans waiting on the waiting list and oust anyone who wants to attend just cos their boyfriend does or play on their phone for 90 minutes and you might get proper fans attending who'll sing and contribute to the atmosphere ffs.

Can you devise an exam to determine who is a real fan and who isn't? thanks.

 

[Roy1983]

Can you devise an exam to determine who is a real fan and who isn't? thanks.

Not down to me to do pal. Besides its never gonna happen is it cos the club put money first they don't give a fudge who attends games do they? Let the wag culture continue to fudge the proper supporters over by continually attending matches if it don't tinkle you off fine but it tinkles me off. I'm stuck at home watching it on some dodgy channel watching a bunch of girls texting on their mobiles next to their boyfriends - yeah not gonna be tinkled off much are we??

 

[Danners9]

Not down to me to do pal. Besides its never gonna happen is it cos the club put money first they don't give a fudge who attends games do they? Let the wag culture continue to fudge the proper supporters over by continually attending matches if it don't tinkle you off fine but it tinkles me off. I'm stuck at home watching it on some dodgy channel watching a bunch of girls texting on their mobiles next to their boyfriends - yeah not gonna be tinkled off much are we??

Aww.

There is a test, it is about who can pay for a ticket. Like attending most things. There are a finite about of tickets and it is first come first served.

Still, I think you should help the club our by deciding who deserves to be there and who doesn't.

 

[Roy1983]

Aww.

There is a test, it is about who can pay for a ticket. Like attending most things. There are a finite about of tickets and it is first come first served.

Still, I think you should help the club our by deciding who deserves to be there and who doesn't.

If your happy with that good for you matey good for you.

 

[Essex Yid]

Isn't there meant to be this 1882 fan thing going on at the Maribor game this week? Hope they sing their heart out, otherwise I dread to think what the atmosphere will be like on Thursday.

 

[Danners9]

If your happy with that good for you matey good for you.

You are the one moaning about it. I live abroad, who goes and who doesn't is not my concern.

 

[Roy1983]

You are the one moaning about it. I live abroad, who goes and who doesn't is not my concern.

Like I said down to you. When people moan about how quiet it is though this is a major problem which tinkles me off. Each to their own though.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

it seems the petty bickering isn't confined the stands.

 

[mudshark]

If you think it's bad now, wait till we've got the new stadium.

 

[Pandy]

Was not at the game but I could tell from the TV that our fans were despicable. I was at the Norwich game and half of the ground were booing at half time - it was 0-0. Some people are fvcking clueless...

 

[jimmyb]

The good thing about football is there is always another game.

Is this thread necessary? after 20 years as a season ticket holder, after 40 years of being a fan. Drama.

Once again, you're missing the point. Try not to make too much of a habit of it, eh?

If you have been at the Lane at all this season, then you will know that this thread is very, very necessary.

You see, it is not about me at all (as pretty much everyone but you has understood). I merely used my own experience to illustrate the point. The negative vibe and lack of atmosphere at the Lane is now a most pressing problem for Spurs. Our future success will, in large part, be determined by it. Our manager's fate absolutely depends upon it.

I am quite certain that many of our players are not enjoying playing at the Lane. They have barely received an iota of vocal support throughout this entire season (and very little last season). They play to a wall of silence - until something goes wrong.

So I strongly suspect that many players - especially those that are in great demand - would happily jump at the chance of leaving if it came along. Anything to escape the poison and absence of support that has taken hold at the Lane. Of course, it's not the only consideration when a player is deciding whether to join, stay or go. But you can bet your bottom dollar that it plays a part. And surely no one with any sense or real love for the club would disagree that we, the fans, should be doing all in our power tip the balance of any decision in our favour?

Meanwhile, the boos and grumbles and staggering overreaction to Defoe's substitution yesterday are manna from heaven for the headline writers in the gutter press who are determined to heap pressure on AVB and establish Spurs as a club in crisis. The fans are playing into their hands. It's a vicious circle and, pretty soon, the fabricated crisis becomes an actual crisis. fudges sake - you'd be forgiven for thinking that, before yesterday, Spurs were fourth from bottom. Not fourth from top. What a bunch of spoilt brats Spurs fans have become. No denying it.

Quite apart from losing our manager and our best players if things continue as they are, we will lose fans. We will fail to attract new fans. Because the match day experience and atmosphere is (or should be) a huge part of the attraction. It won't be an issue in the current stadium. But in a new 60K stadium? Good luck trying to sell out that many seats every game if the atmosphere shows no sign of improvement.

So, yes, this thread is very necessary. Doing something to remedy the situation is very necessary.

 

[jimmyb]

I don't go regularly, but when I go I sing and shout all I can. From what I understand it's just as much to do with STs as the casual tourists or whatever. Yes, people have a ridiculous sense of entitlement and I don't understand why. Whatever we do, some always expect more.

I also wonder how people can be so aggressive towards "haters", but still post so much negative brick themselves.

I'm not making any distinction between season ticket holders, members or, as you put it, "casual tourists". Season ticket holders must take their share of the blame. And since they account for two thirds of the match day crowd, that's a pretty large share. All that matters is that everyone - however often or infrequently they attend - takes responsibility for arresting and reversing the shocking decline in atmosphere at the Lane.

As to the last sentence of your post, I'm not sure who you're talking about?

 

[jimmyb]

The lack of atmosphere is most probably attributable to the changing socio economic support of the club, and football in general.
If the majority of the crowd yesterday were blue collar employees, who generally spend a greater proportion of their salary on football, you can almost guarantee a better, raucous atmosphere.

It really doesn't have anything to do with class. Most of the people around me would, I'm quite certain, describe themselves as staunchly working class. Yet, with regard to this discussion, they are among the worst offenders. Our little group of season ticket holders is, by contrast, decidedly middle class. Yet we are the only ones in the block who make any noise. And we never boo.

So social stereotypes - like any other stereotype - are neither valid nor helpful.

The cause of this sad decline is deeper and more universal than a lazy and superficial citing of class behaviour.

 

[iggyfog]

Football is increasing a consumer product - and as a consumer product it is one of the first around - you touch yourself - and increasingly often you are dissatisfied with the product - hence the atmosphere has changed at games - fans are customers now and increasingly they want a good product on the field.