The final straw?

[Gutter Boy]

Yesterday was far more embarrassing than any defeat I can remember.

Having the prawn sandwich phalanx turn on the team after 10 minutes is unforgiveable.

Opposition managers must be loving it - "keep them out for the first 90 seconds and the crowd will turn on them and the match will be ours".

 

[Spurs7891]

Have to say AVB looked very shocked at the reactions of the crowd when Adebayor replaced Defoe.

 

[milo]

Yesterday was far more embarrassing than any defeat I can remember.

Having the prawn sandwich phalanx turn on the team after 10 minutes is unforgiveable.

Opposition managers must be loving it - "keep them out for the first 90 seconds and the crowd will turn on them and the match will be ours".

It was a tactic that Norwich deployed again us earlier in the season.

 

[Harry_Perkins]

My take is there is a lot of pent up frustration still over the decision to get rid of Redknapp and replace him with AVB. I know a lot of people hate Redknapp almost as much as they hate Arsenal, but despite all his faults, he did a great job at Spurs, and he did whilst playing some fantastic football. If we had replaced him with a proven commodity like Ancelotti, then that would have been completely understandable, but the jury is still out on whether AVB can cut it in the premier league. I hope he can!

Agreed. To a bigger extent this was true about Jol, who I didn't rate as much as most people but no doubt he had something of a rapport with the fans that Redknapp never even quite managed despite bigger achievements. But in turn, he had a bigger and rapport with the fans than AVB does now. That'll take time. And if you keep chopping and changing it then the fans will feel that he'll be off after a few bad results anyway.

I agree it isn't the main factor but it is certainly a contributing factor. You need a figurehead at the top who has the confidence of the fans. Such figures at Spurs have been rare over the years. Redknapp had just finished 4th and was still having his name sung at his final game in charge. How rare in that generally, nevermind at Spurs? It is very risky to get rid of someone like that.

 

[Spurs7891]

Agreed. To a bigger extent this was true about Jol, who I didn't rate as much as most people but no doubt he had something of a rapport with the fans that Redknapp never even quite managed despite bigger achievements. But in turn, he had a bigger and rapport with the fans than AVB does now. That'll take time. And if you keep chopping and changing it then the fans will feel that he'll be off after a few bad results anyway.

I agree it isn't the main factor but it is certainly a contributing factor. You need a figurehead at the top who has the confidence of the fans. Such figures at Spurs have been rare over the years. Redknapp had just finished 4th and was still having his name sung at his final game in charge. How rare in that generally, nevermind at Spurs? It is very risky to get rid of someone like that.

This I don't understand. We sacked Redknapp because he wanted to leave for England and refused to rule out the rumours. As soon as the rumours started in January, our form badly dipped. History proves that speculations about the manager will always affect any team. It was Redknapp's fault for not coming out to stay he will be loyal to Spurs. Levy did the right thing on that circumstances. Also remember, Redknapp was the manager with unlimited powers while AVB is just the head coach with limited powers. Levy should have given full freedom for AVB to sign players he wants.

 

[milo]

This I don't understand. We sacked Redknapp because he wanted to leave for England and refused to rule out the rumours. As soon as the rumours started in January, our form badly dipped. History proves that speculations about the manager will always affect any team. It was Redknapp's fault for not coming out to stay he will be loyal to Spurs. Levy did the right thing on that circumstances. Also remember, Redknapp was the manager with unlimited powers while AVB is just the head coach with limited powers. Levy should have given full freedom for AVB to sign players he wants.

Redknapp never had unlimited powers, Levy rightly kept a very tight control on transfers whilst Redknapp was manager.

I also think that our drop in form in the second half of last season was a bit more complicated than just being a result of the England speculation but that obviously didn't help.

 

[Harry_Perkins]

This I don't understand. We sacked Redknapp because he wanted to leave for England and refused to rule out the rumours. As soon as the rumours started in January, our form badly dipped. History proves that speculations about the manager will always affect any team. It was Redknapp's fault for not coming out to stay he will be loyal to Spurs. Levy did the right thing on that circumstances. Also remember, Redknapp was the manager with unlimited powers while AVB is just the head coach with limited powers. Levy should have given full freedom for AVB to sign players he wants.

I'm not really getting into the discussion on ins and outs of whether he should have been sacked (for the record, we won 5-0 after the rumours started and then we won 3 of our last 4 games... if it was England that put him/the team off then why did it suddenly change for the last 4 games and just occur for 9 games somewhere in between? It doesn't really follow) but what I'm talking about is what it does for the general feeling around the club when you get rid of someone who still had the backing of the fans. Does Levy really consider the importance of this sort of thing? I mean, I think the decision was probably right with Jol but the timing has to be seriously questioned and the handling questioned even more.

 

[Robbo]

Yesterday was shocking, watching on telly. Really embarrassing to listen to the boos at half time and when Defoe was subbed - you could see him looking at the crowd, thinking WTF? I rarely get to attend games due to living in Oslo, but when I do, I always make sure to sing, chant and cheer the team on as much as I can - no matter how we play. I find it a duty for me as a supporter to get behind the team. That's a huge part of why I spend £300-400 on a two day trp to London. It would be far cheaper and convenient to stay at home and watch the game on TV, but when I sing my lungs out and enjoy the atmosphere at WHL is at its best, it is so so worth it.

 

[Jimmy-g]

Unfortunately I have to agree with pretty much everything Jimmy says.

Going to the Lane these days is becoming a chore and really is no fun at all.

I have been a fan for almost 45 years and been going to games for over 40 years but this could be my last season of attending regularly.

6-8 games next season I think but far more non-league games.

Get to mix with nicer people and have more fun for a tenner.

Whilst I agree with you in principle its not only the fans, its football in general, the game is played in the main by a load of overpaid tossers, we are paying a stupid amount of money for tickets and are treated like brick, this is even before you mention the media.

If the players were like the old days and played for the shirt and a ticket was £20 we would all be happier.

 

[paxtonwolf]

Unfortunately I have to agree with pretty much everything Jimmy says.

Going to the Lane these days is becoming a chore and really is no fun at all.
I have been a fan for almost 45 years and been going to games for over 40 years but this could be my last season of attending regularly.

6-8 games next season I think but far more non-league games.

Get to mix with nicer people and have more fun for a tenner.

I can see where you coming from here. Days like yesterday make you think 'why do i bother' but to be fair, after a couple of sleeps we end up looking forward to the next trip.
I have to admit though if we travelled down and did the round trip on the day I'm worried it might start to feel like a chore.
As it is, more often than not each home game now is either an overnight stay or a 2 or 3 day mini-break so the game is not the total focus of the trip down, if you catch my drift.

I'm not sure how we can reverse the downward trend at WHL with regards to atmosphere. Ticket prices dont help thats for sure. I know its been on the decline for a couple of season, bar the odd game. The change of Manager certainly didnt help this year, AVB seems to have no raopport with the crowd, I think I've only heard his name sung once this season at the games we've attended.

I'm one of the dinosaurs who would still love to see Martin Jol back at the helm. Okay we werent title challengers and he had his faults, but he certainly brought a feel-good factor to the Lane

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

Whilst I agree with you in principle its not only the fans, its football in general, the game is played in the main by a load of overpaid tossers, we are paying a stupid amount of money for tickets and are treated like brick, this is even before you mention the media.

If the players were like the old days and played for the shirt and a ticket was £20 we would all be happier.

Totally agree mate.

As i mentioned in another thread i have attended 8 matches this season
4 THFC first team at a cost of around £180 &
4 other matches (2 non-league, a Spurs U19 & a Spurs Ladies at £28

I enjoyed the latter 4 far more than the first 4.

(i still have three 1st team matches booked up & will book Panathinaikos on Wed! - but i am slowly breaking the habit!)

 

[COYS]

I think our atmosphere is deteriorating because some people feel too embarrassed to sing. Personally I'll always sing along with a song that only Park Lane are singing even if I'm the only person in the Paxton end singing!

Ultimately the moral is just join in.

 

[punk_is_back`]

The lack of atmosphere is most probably attributable to the changing socio economic support of the club, and football in general.
If the majority of the crowd yesterday were blue collar employees, who generally spend a greater proportion of their salary on football, you can almost guarantee a better, raucous atmosphere.

I don't think so, I still see a lot of people who have come from working class backgrounds at the Lane and they are probably the worst of the lot in terms of booing and not singing. I see a lot of tinkled up "Lads" who are there mostly for some "banter" and who hardly follow the game, trying to do their best Danny Dyer impression. You don't really get the "Tarquin" sort of fan at the lane, but no doubt they would be there to watch the football, not for some tinkleup and to actually get behind the team.

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

I can see where you coming from here. Days like yesterday make you think 'why do i bother' but to be fair, after a couple of sleeps we end up looking forward to the next trip.
I have to admit though if we travelled down and did the round trip on the day I'm worried it might start to feel like a chore.
As it is, more often than not each home game now is either an overnight stay or a 2 or 3 day mini-break so the game is not the total focus of the trip down, if you catch my drift.

I'm not sure how we can reverse the downward trend at WHL with regards to atmosphere. Ticket prices dont help thats for sure. I know its been on the decline for a couple of season, bar the odd game. The change of Manager certainly didnt help this year, AVB seems to have no raopport with the crowd, I think I've only heard his name sung once this season at the games we've attended.

I'm one of the dinosaurs who would still love to see Martin Jol back at the helm. Okay we werent title challengers and he had his faults, but he certainly brought a feel-good factor to the Lane

Same. I am also an old fogey so personally i would rather have a great day out & think my hard earned cash has been well spent rather than be 'best loser' (ie, 4th) & have to put up with the matchday experience we are currently suffering.

I know it has been said before but reading other teams forums you will find threads like this on pretty much all of them. Has scoccerball finally reached its tipping point?

 

[NWND]

I went to my first home game yesterday this season. What struck me was there was this negative tension or energy right from kick-off. Spurs actually started off playing quite well we had Wigan pinned back and we were probing for weaknesses and openings, but the fans were almost waiting for a mistake to start moaning and getting on the players backs, you could almost see the confidence drain away from our players after the first misplaced pass and the mistakescbecame contagious, nobody wanted the ball and Wigan got more and more composed and comfortabl as our fans gave our players more abuse. I now understand why we've been so much better away from home this season.

My ratings:

Players: 3/10
Andre: 3/10
Fans: 0/10 - the fans directly affected the dire performance yesterday- if I was a spurs player I wouldn't feel confident and comfortable playing in that atmosphere and if I was an opposition player I'd be loving it!

Footballers in an away team always talk about trying to turn the home fans on their team, but to have that happen from kick-off must be a dream!

 

[Jimmy-g]

Totally agree mate.

As i mentioned in another thread i have attended 8 matches this season
4 THFC first team at a cost of around £180 &
4 other matches (2 non-league, a Spurs U19 & a Spurs Ladies at £28

I enjoyed the latter 4 far more than the first 4.

(i still have three 1st team matches booked up & will book Panathinaikos on Wed! - but i am slowly breaking the habit!)

You hit the tickle my balls with a feather in a previous post "soccerball has reached its tipping point" I need to say no more, Wednesday nights UEFA cup,we played for pride representing England, then the British Queen for a drink with the players, Saturday afternoon " lets go up the Spurs" out of the pub 10 bob at the turnstiles, those days have gone forever.

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

You hit the tickle my balls with a feather in a previous post "soccerball has reached its tipping point" I need to say no more, Wednesday nights UEFA cup,we played for pride representing England, then the British Queen for a drink with the players, Saturday afternoon " lets go up the Spurs" out of the pub 10 bob at the turnstiles, those days have gone forever.

I still have autographed programmes from the Div2 season which i used to collect in the White Hart after away games. Coach would drop us off outside & there were usually half a dozen players having a drink inside.

Got Hoddle, Perryman, McNabb, Moores, Taylor, K Osgood, Naylor (legend) & C Lee's signatures that way.

 

[Jimmy-g]

I still have autographed programmes from the Div2 season which i used to collect in the White Hart after away games. Coach would drop us off outside & there were usually half a dozen players having a drink inside.

Got Hoddle, Perryman, McNabb, Moores, Taylor, K Osgood, Naylor (legend) & C Lee's signatures that way.

We better shut up before the youngsters start taking the tinkle out of us, lol.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

so what do those that boo want? i guess it's a better performance and a win.

so do those that boo think that booing is inspirational or inhibiting? or do they care less about the effect it has on the players and more about their 'right', their 'entitlement' to vent their anger?

the 'I've paid my money i can do what i want' mindset? the irony being that by booing they just push the thing they want further away.

i read it a number of times yesterday that the players weren't putting in effort, that they didn't care. do fans honestly think that players don't want to win, don't want to achieve, don't want CL, don't want to get picked for the next game? imo it's just the default, easy, catch-all position to say that players don't try, and i don't think it bears close analysis.

the OP makes a number of great points, and i can't help but agree that we've become an entitled, spoilt lot with ever-shortening memories in a place where patience and perspective are quickly drifting from view.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

I went to my first home game yesterday this season. What struck me was there was this negative tension or energy right from kick-off. Spurs actually started off playing quite well we had Wigan pinned back and we were probing for weaknesses and openings, but the fans were almost waiting for a mistake to start moaning and getting on the players backs, you could almost see the confidence drain away from our players after the first misplaced pass and the mistakescbecame contagious, nobody wanted the ball and Wigan got more and more composed and comfortabl as our fans gave our players more abuse. I now understand why we've been so much better away from home this season.

My ratings:

Players: 3/10
Andre: 3/10
Fans: 0/10 - the fans directly affected the dire performance yesterday- if I was a spurs player I wouldn't feel confident and comfortable playing in that atmosphere and if I was an opposition player I'd be loving it!

Footballers in an away team always talk about trying to turn the home fans on their team, but to have that happen from kick-off must be a dream!

and the worst part of that is that Man U had done us a huge favour, the crowd should have been riotous with the prospect of going 5 clear of that lot, but no, they sat back like Caesar and waited to be entertained.