The Bigger Picture - aka we've been here before

[Legohamster]

So when pep can sit haaland on the bench and play a £100m plater in his place and bring him on after 60 mins because it's getting a bit sticky, that’s out thinking the opposition?

Ange has a squad that has cost more than most the league, doesn't that work for him?

How much was Richi?

Or 3 first choice CBs cost well over 100 million, still can't defend a corner

 

[Baleforce]

So when pep can sit haaland on the bench and play a £100m plater in his place and bring him on after 60 mins because it's getting a bit sticky, that’s out thinking the opposition?

Not that example no.

But when you overload the front post with late runs on a corner because you know the defence are playing zone, that is.

 

[glasgowspur]

Yeah, I think it is to be honest. Just my opinion but I think it's too high risk for the standard of player that we have or can acquire.

He certainly should have enough credit in the bank to prove the likes of me wrong though.

I agree with what we have, not sure on what we can acquire.
Something that hasn't been mentioned that does worry me, signings.
As I remember it ange went balls out for maddison and Johnson after talking to them, not sure either have justified that.

 

[glasgowspur]

Ange has a squad that has cost more than most the league, doesn't that work for him?

How much was Richi?

Or 3 first choice CBs cost well over 100 million, still can't defend a corner

Richi and Romero were both here when ange came in.
We only play two cbs, dragusin has barely played so that's not really a fair judgement.

 

[glasgowspur]

Not that example no.

But when you overload the front post with late runs on a corner because you know the defence are playing zone, that is.

Yep, totally agree and have been bemoaning our set pieces, defending and attacking for as long as I can remember.

Thinking more about this, harry defended our set pieces well, but didn't have a great record at our corners (crap delivery).
Last few games Romero has been unlucky not score from corners, but can't defend them for toffee.
Weird.

 

[jrh]

Depends if you think he's the man for the rebuild.

Would you have given Nuno 2 seasons?

Nuno hasn't won trophies at every club he's been at.

 

[Mcfee]

I agree with what we have, not sure on what we can acquire.
Something that hasn't been mentioned that does worry me, signings.
As I remember it ange went balls out for maddison and Johnson after talking to them, not sure either have justified that.

And made him vice-captain on day 1 which is worrying given that he appears to have a history of inconsistency. Leadership on the pitch is still a huge issue and has been for several years now.

 

[Legohamster]

Richi and Romero were both here when ange came in.
We only play two cbs, dragusin has barely played so that's not really a fair judgement.

They are more expensive than the majority of players in the PL in the same position, you example put down cost of a player.

 

[Bishop]

They are more expensive than the majority of players in the PL in the same position, you example put down cost of a player.

The cost of the player isn't really relevant. Thats just a indicator of a teams spending power. You can spend a lot of a little it's about the quality of the player you bring in for that money. In that respect our squad is decent but it's not some outlier in terms of quality and to play the Ange way it needs significant additions.

 

[monkeybarry]

Arteta decided the way to improve was go more defensive than last year.

This might just be the most important post.
One of the things being levied (not yet Levy'ed!) at Ange is being too idealistic. The same was said about, and performed by, Arteta.
Arteta is smart enough to have recognised that he needed adapt to the lge whilst also keeping the core of his identity. I expect Ange to do the same - but it will take time. He seems pragmatic enough to understand he has weaknesses, unlike Conte and Mourinho who were so dogmatic they couldn't change.

Crack the way to get at the opposition, then tighten the back, so both can be used in tandem.
There is a weird irony now that if we'd have started the season being good at the back but not playing expansive football, we'd all be up in arms and frustrated again - Conte had similar lge position to where we are now, but we hated the football. @Baleforce is right that you need to be tight at the back to win - but we've had years of doing that at expense of enjoyable football.

It's time for patience and chipping away.

 

[monkeybarry]

The DNA, historically, is that of a cup team, but cups don’t matter anymore.

It’s about sustained performances over a league season, it’s a different requirement.

I dunno, I'd quite like a cup!

 

[glasgowspur]

And made him vice-captain on day 1 which is worrying given that he appears to have a history of inconsistency. Leadership on the pitch is still a huge issue and has been for several years now.

And Romero a walking red card and maverick as another vice captain?

 

[DeanoAustin]

I don't recall many questioning Romero or Maddison as the picks at the start of the season. A few questioned Son alright.

Romero I think is actually a good choice. He's one of the few in our squad I'd want with me in a battle. Who else do we have? We have a lack of characters and lack of leaders in the squad.

Which brings me to another point. The players will get brick for not doing what Ange is asking from some fans. What Ange is asking is extremely hard to do. It takes massive courage to take a positive first touch and pass forward like he was asking last night. The ability to do it may dissipate over a season. Ange is asking them to take risks which could go wrong. And if it does, you have 60,000 people moaning and look a proper mug in front of millions on TV. The natural human reaction is to take that extra touch or play that safer pass if you're not certain you can pull off the positive pass forward. You look better but the team loses its opportunity to slice through the opposition. It's not mentally weak or not giving a fudge or whatever - it's just being human. What Ange is asking takes a toll and needs very gifted and mentally strong players.

 

[Lilbaz]

We should beat burnley and sheff utd and finish 5th.

I'd have taken that at the beginning of the season.

The summer ange can try and replace the players he doesn't think are up to it. Sort out xome other issues. Then we can see where we are next season.

Overall i thought we were the better team last night just small things that really let us down. Really hope we can address them.

 

[DeanoAustin]

We should beat burnley and sheff utd and finish 5th.

I'd have taken that at the beginning of the season.

The summer ange can try and replace the players he doesn't think are up to it. Sort out xome other issues. Then we can see where we are next season.

Overall i thought we were the better team last night just small things that really let us down. Really hope we can address them.

Really? Bar the 20 mins at the start of the second half, I thought we were poison and they were much better than us.

 

[glasgowspur]

I don't recall many questioning Romero or Maddison as the picks at the start of the season. A few questioned Son alright.

Romero I think is actually a good choice. He's one of the few in our squad I'd want with me in a battle. Who else do we have? We have a lack of characters and lack of leaders in the squad.

Which brings me to another point. The players will get brick for not doing what Ange is asking from some fans. What Ange is asking is extremely hard to do. It takes massive courage to take a positive first touch and pass forward like he was asking last night. The ability to do it may dissipate over a season. Ange is asking them to take risks which could go wrong. And if it does, you have 60,000 people moaning and look a proper mug in front of millions on TV. The natural human reaction is to take that extra touch or play that safer pass if you're not certain you can pull off the positive pass forward. You look better but the team loses its opportunity to slice through the opposition. It's not mentally weak or not giving a fudge or whatever - it's just being human. What Ange is asking takes a toll and needs very gifted and mentally strong players.

You don't question when it's going right.
Ange was very positive about maddison, maddison was very positive about ange and on his form he is an ange type player so I can understand.
Romero is one of those great when it works, disastrous when he takes it too far players. Fine lines.
I can't see a natural on the field leader in our squad, haven't seen one for a while tbh.
It is a tough system to play, the more results and performances like last night the harder it will be to break the cycle.
Take a chance and trust the process.

 

[Grays_1890]

You don't question when it's going right.
Ange was very positive about maddison, maddison was very positive about ange and on his form he is an ange type player so I can understand.
Romero is one of those great when it works, disastrous when he takes it too far players. Fine lines.
I can't see a natural on the field leader in our squad, haven't seen one for a while tbh.
It is a tough system to play, the more results and performances like last night the harder it will be to break the cycle.
Take a chance and trust the process.

MVDV looks the next leader for me, understated and calm which you need but you can tell it hurts him bad, his face does not lie and even clearing that ball for Vic he pushed him off because IMO its a distraction and he wanted to get on.

The bigger picture here is we have been here before, yeh, thats as simple as it gets with us, 5 managers in 5 years stuff done, project managers done and the outcomes seem the same. The big issue we have now IMO is STILL relying on players that are 3/4 managers in who were not delivering for the 1st manager, then you see them in the side and they are drastically pulling down the side and what the manager is trying to achieve. I am not saying for one minute its intentional but when players get that ride where they seemingly outlive the managers and expectations it can't fail to breed sh1t. We need deep clearing still and we need to improve the quality and mentality of this squad still, if not for Ange for the next boss otherwise we will be here in a year having the same conversations whilst the likes of PEH, Royal and Gil stink the place out for manager 23 or whatever number we are at.

 

[billyiddo]

MVDV looks the next leader for me, understated and calm which you need but you can tell it hurts him bad, his face does not lie and even clearing that ball for Vic he pushed him off because IMO its a distraction and he wanted to get on.

The bigger picture here is we have been here before, yeh, thats as simple as it gets with us, 5 managers in 5 years stuff done, project managers done and the outcomes seem the same. The big issue we have now IMO is STILL relying on players that are 3/4 managers in who were not delivering for the 1st manager, then you see them in the side and they are drastically pulling down the side and what the manager is trying to achieve. I am not saying for one minute its intentional but when players get that ride where they seemingly outlive the managers and expectations it can't fail to breed sh1t. We need deep clearing still and we need to improve the quality and mentality of this squad still, if not for Ange for the next boss otherwise we will be here in a year having the same conversations whilst the likes of PEH, Royal and Gil stink the place out for manager 23 or whatever number we are at.

When you change managers regularly then there will always be players from 3 or 4 managers ago...

Hopefully come the end of the summer window we would have purged the squad of the last of the Hitchen era buys and then bar potentially Son & Davies (who i don't think will be sold) the longest serving players will be Paratichi's first signings

 

[Bedfordspurs]

At least we look like we may end the season with manager that started it for once

 

[Bedfordspurs]

MVDV looks the next leader for me, understated and calm which you need but you can tell it hurts him bad, his face does not lie and even clearing that ball for Vic he pushed him off because IMO its a distraction and he wanted to get on.

The bigger picture here is we have been here before, yeh, thats as simple as it gets with us, 5 managers in 5 years stuff done, project managers done and the outcomes seem the same. The big issue we have now IMO is STILL relying on players that are 3/4 managers in who were not delivering for the 1st manager, then you see them in the side and they are drastically pulling down the side and what the manager is trying to achieve. I am not saying for one minute its intentional but when players get that ride where they seemingly outlive the managers and expectations it can't fail to breed sh1t. We need deep clearing still and we need to improve the quality and mentality of this squad still, if not for Ange for the next boss otherwise we will be here in a year having the same conversations whilst the likes of PEH, Royal and Gil stink the place out for manager 23 or whatever number we are at.

Brian fudging Gil
That’s a players who either has no accountability for his physical ability or has been left to do his own thing because he plays like a timid child
Our youth team players would offer more
We paid a fortune out for an 8 stone hipster to pass the ball backwards…