The Bigger Picture - aka we've been here before

[billyiddo]

So what's the answer? Burn it all down and start again, again?

People have pointed it out already, Arteta finished 8th in his first two seasons. It's down to us the fan base and the entire club to show some courage and back the guy.

We're supporters aren't we?

Why is it that giving a negative appraisal is seen as not supporting the team/manager/whoever?

 

[Legohamster]

I do want that but I don’t think his methods can work, I think you win trophies by being defensively solid brickhouses.

Arteta decided the way to improve was go more defensive than last year.

 

[Aldo]

The only metric where he is doing well is league position, in every other footballing department i would say we are not doing well. He gets next season but a massive improvement is required.

He's won 3 of the 8 Manager of the Month awards his season, albeit front-loaded. No one else has more than one.

 

[Mikey10]

As this season crumbles away in a series of heavy defeats, weak performances and set piece goals conceded, the bigger picture looms for me. And yes, we have been here before. Too often. And once again we need the manager to be supported by the club in terms of players in and out.

Should Ange get more of the players he needs, and this summer window will not address all the personnel issues, I’m confident that we will progress, especially as our debutants this season will have a full season under their belts. I’m also hopeful (the hope that kills…?) that Ange will reflect on the ups and downs of this year and learn and also grow.

We have seen a squad start to be over-hauled, we have (until recently) seen some great football and felt that we have our Spurs back. Yes, we haven’t replaced Kane, but January was never going to be the time to do that. Yes we are thin in many other areas, but that will (hopefully) be addressed.

Ange, who is not above valid criticism, must be given time. Legohead was. Klippety-Klopp was. If given time and the resources he thinks he needs (I’m not a man of prayer but will PRAY for a set piece coach), the whole of next season could be a thrill ride.



COYS!!!

I agree…to an extent.

It’s quite some time since we saw great football (Villa away perhaps being the exception) and even the early 10 game run masked some obvious weaknesses. Of late, our performances have been dour and there doesn’t appear to be a plan.

Things seem to be going in the opposite direction to what might reasonably be expected; the players seem to be less sure of their roles and the system the longer the manager has to work with them. If a manager’s primary job is to develop those he’s working with then there seems to be little evidence of that so far.

There is an idealistic and stubborn side to Ange which worries me (alongside a lot of things which I really like).

My major worry is that there won’t be a (very necessary) major squad overhaul in the summer. History suggests that’s likely to be the case; the world market for expensive British players is unlikely to be buoyant; and I don’t think we’ll have the balls to pay off contracts in he way the Goons needed to.

That would leave Ange having to develop players who it increasingly seems can’t (or won’t) buy into the system he wants to play.

I think talk of a project is misplaced. If he doesn’t achieve CL football next season then my feeling is he’ll be gone.

I think we absolutely have to back him. But there is a fair bit to be concerned about, I think; as the one reasonable Arsenal fan in work said to me this morning, the team looked lost last night, and Ange looked like he’s struggling for answers and really feeling the pressure.

Unfortunately we’ve all seen the end of that particular story too many times before…

 

[jrh]

Why is it that giving a negative appraisal is seen as not supporting the team/manager/whoever?

Coz you're putting a hard time limit on how far your support stretches

 

[Baleforce]

So let's give Ange time before binning him off then? He's doing above expectation, having lost Kane, loads of injuries and a disrupted fixture list. Let's see what happens.

My point was. I don’t think I like his philosophy.

Even if he gets time and every player he wants I don’t think I’m going to enjoy it.

 

[Baleforce]

I agree with all of those, but it is who we are, it is this "DNA" thing that gets trotted out.
It's brilliant when it's going our way, when it's working, when it isn't working it feels horrible, we don't want to win like the cheats of this world.
It's difficult looking at the financial dropping of city and Chelsea, the asthma suffers at Liverpool or any other of lesser clubs kick, dive and cheat their to success.
It's morals or glory.
We want both, modern world isn't like that, if it ever was.

It’s the DNA we need to change imo, we’ve won very little in our history, relative to our peers.

 

[billyiddo]

Coz you're putting a hard time limit on how far your support stretches

It's being realistic - for the last two thirds of this season we have been performing at 10th place level and more crucially are not showing any sign of bedding in a style of play, we simply have to improve on that by the end of next season

 

[Baleforce]

But a league that has been won four out of five by the same team is better?
A league with teams getting 90 points plus at the top and less than 30 at the bottom.
What's the difference?

The quality you are up against.

 

[glasgowspur]

The quality you are up against.

But it's relative.
Is the gap from Celtic to St Johnstone any bigger than the gap from city to Sheffield utd?

 

[Legohamster]

But a league that has been won four out of five by the same team is better?
A league with teams getting 90 points plus at the top and less than 30 at the bottom.
What's the difference?

The overly quality of players in the PL v the SPL

Most if not all regular PL players get into any SPL team

The players in the PL have the ability to attack our weaknesses better than Anges Celtic was by SPL players.

 

[glasgowspur]

It’s the DNA we need to change imo, we’ve won very little in our history, relative to our peers.

I think it's become tainted.
There is almost an imposter syndrome look about us at times. We get to the sharp end, think we shouldn't be there and retreat into our shell.

 

[Legohamster]

So what's the answer? Burn it all down and start again, again?

People have pointed it out already, Arteta finished 8th in his first two seasons. It's down to us the fan base and the entire club to show some courage and back the guy.

We're supporters aren't we?

Depends if you think he's the man for the rebuild.

Would you have given Nuno 2 seasons?

 

[DeanoAustin]

But a league that has been won four out of five by the same team is better?
A league with teams getting 90 points plus at the top and less than 30 at the bottom.
What's the difference?

The quality and level is much higher so a flawed system that works elsewhere is much more likely to be exposed in this league.

I said in the 10 game run at the start wouldn't define his reign. It was how he handled the inevitable sticky patch that would tell us how he'll do here. We're now in the thick of it. It's not been great and there were some very worrying signs last night. To be honest, I can almost see how Sunday goes already. Very limp performance and a stroll to victory for Liverpool. We've seen this picture many many times with Tottenham.

This bad run at the end of the season is going to put Ange under pressure to start well next season. If he doesn't, rightly or wrongly, he'll be under pressure. Ange does a far bit of talking about how he knows this plan works as if he's unlocked the secrets of how to be successful in football. He hasn't. He's going to be tested hugely as a man and as a manager over the next few months.

 

[billyiddo]

But it's relative.
Is the gap from Celtic to St Johnstone any bigger than the gap from city to Sheffield utd?

Probably. Though choosing the 2 extreme points as an example isn't the best way to judge the leagues strength across the board.

 

[Baleforce]

But it's relative.
Is the gap from Celtic to St Johnstone any bigger than the gap from city to Sheffield utd?

It’s not relative, it’s not about the gap. It’s about being able to outthink the opposing tacticians.

 

[glasgowspur]

The quality and level is much higher so a flawed system that works elsewhere is much more likely to be exposed in this league.

I said in the 10 game run at the start wouldn't define his reign. It was how he handled the inevitable sticky patch that would tell us how he'll do here. We're now in the thick of it. It's not been great and there were some very worrying signs last night. To be honest, I can almost see how Sunday goes already. Very limp performance and a stroll to victory for Liverpool. We've seen this picture many many times with Tottenham.

This bad run at the end of the season is going to put Ange under pressure to start well next season. If he doesn't, rightly or wrongly, he'll be under pressure. Ange does a far bit of talking about how he knows this plan works as if he's unlocked the secrets of how to be successful in football. He hasn't. He's going to be tested hugely as a man and as a manager over the next few months.

You're assuming that the system is flawed and not the players.

 

[Baleforce]

I think it's become tainted.
There is almost an imposter syndrome look about us at times. We get to the sharp end, think we shouldn't be there and retreat into our shell.

The DNA, historically, is that of a cup team, but cups don’t matter anymore.

It’s about sustained performances over a league season, it’s a different requirement.

 

[glasgowspur]

It’s not relative, it’s not about the gap. It’s about being able to outthink the opposing tacticians.

So when pep can sit haaland on the bench and play a £100m plater in his place and bring him on after 60 mins because it's getting a bit sticky, that’s out thinking the opposition?

 

[DeanoAustin]

You're assuming that the system is flawed and not the players.

Yeah, I think it is to be honest. Just my opinion but I think it's too high risk for the standard of player that we have or can acquire.

He certainly should have enough credit in the bank to prove the likes of me wrong though.