Tanguy Ndombele

[Bedfordspurs]

Kovacic is 400% known for his passing. He was considered the heir apparent to Modric when he was coming through. Hes actually a hybrid 8/10, playing him deep as Lampard is doing gets his really good possession play going in deeper spaces.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

Well IMO he isn’t but that’s just my opinion
What I will say is whoever we play will leave the midfield well alone and just target our right hand side like Chelsea did (they even brought back Alonso a player their fans hate now) to do it. It’s that easy.

 

[Benny_Lad]

Chelsea played yesterday with two dms, neither is known for their passing
What they didn’t have was shockingly bad brain dead mistakes around them... we did, like we did vs United
The amount of times Aurier was long gone past his man again was scary

Both of their DMs are professional, make very few mistakes and are probably better at distributing than they are given credit for.

I have a solution to the RB issue. Jose has already touched on it. I think we will see Foyth take the place before long. Jose has already mentioned that he could play as a defensive RB but not an attacking one (in the wonky setup).

I think one of 3 things will happen:

We will go flat 4 with Foyth RB and be very limited.

We will go Foyth RB and switch the wonky round to Rose (unlikely).

We will try something different like a 343 with Foyth joining 2 other CBs and Aurier moving up 1 to RWB. We finished against Sheff Utd like that and it wasn’t great as we’d lost a man in midfield.

The problem at the moment is we aren’t good enough either at RB or CM, and both are affecting each other.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Both of their DMs are professional, make very few mistakes and are probably better at distributing than they are given credit for.

I have a solution to the RB issue. Jose has already touched on it. I think we will see Foyth take the place before long. Jose has already mentioned that he could play as a defensive RB but not an attacking one (in the wonky setup).

I think one of 3 things will happen:

We will go flat 4 with Foyth RB and be very limited.

We will go Foyth RB and switch the wonky round to Rose (unlikely).

We will try something different like a 343 with Foyth joining 2 other CBs and Aurier moving up 1 to RWB. We finished against Sheff Utd like that and it wasn’t great as we’d lost a man in midfield.

The problem at the moment is we aren’t good enough either at RB or CM, and both are affecting each other.

But our CMs yesterday didn’t make mistakes either, well costly ones. The mistakes were Aurier and Gaza, and it’s Auriers mistakes that happen game after game after game.
Sissoko is covering for him all game leaving gaps in midfield. It happened yesterday
I’d love to see foyth given a chance and if we want to go wonky play Sesssngon or Rose LB
Mourinho is jugging the lesser for two evils but we have constantly this season conceded down our right... and I mean constantly. It’s about 75% of the goals IMO

 

[Bishop]

Both of their DMs are professional, make very few mistakes and are probably better at distributing than they are given credit for.

I have a solution to the RB issue. Jose has already touched on it. I think we will see Foyth take the place before long. Jose has already mentioned that he could play as a defensive RB but not an attacking one (in the wonky setup).

I think one of 3 things will happen:

We will go flat 4 with Foyth RB and be very limited.

We will go Foyth RB and switch the wonky round to Rose (unlikely).

We will try something different like a 343 with Foyth joining 2 other CBs and Aurier moving up 1 to RWB. We finished against Sheff Utd like that and it wasn’t great as we’d lost a man in midfield.

The problem at the moment is we aren’t good enough either at RB or CM, and both are affecting each other.

Both of their DMs are considerably better in key areas and far more rounded than the crap we are putting out

Kovacic

Press resistance : hell yeah
Passing range : good
Passing execution : very good
Dribbling : again good

Kanye

Press resistance : hell yeah
Passing range : limited but not as much as people think, he has better range than Sissoko
Passing execution : excellent
Dribbling : again good

Now compare that to what we put out.

Dier

Press resistance : is this a joke ?
Passing range : ok
Passing execution : poooor
Dribbling : zilch

Sissoko

Press resistance : good, but then loses the ball because his overall control is brick
Passing range : brick
Passing execution : every second pass is a hospital ball
Dribbling : good but often aimless

Swap their two in for our two and the connexion of yesterday's game changes dramatically.

But our CMs yesterday didn’t make mistakes either, well costly ones. The mistakes were Aurier and Gaza, and it’s Auriers mistakes that happen game after game after game.
Sissoko is covering for him all game leaving gaps in midfield. It happened yesterday
I’d love to see foyth given a chance and if we want to go wonky play Sesssngon or Rose LB
Mourinho is jugging the lesser for two evils but we have constantly this season conceded down our right... and I mean constantly. It’s about 75% of the goals IMO

You focus on the goals conceded to much and not about why we were unable to mount any significant attacks of our own. That isn't down to Aurier being bone headed or Gaza's rush of blood, it's because of literal systemic issues.

Sure we conceded two frankly brick goals from our pov but conceding a goal or two doesn't stop you from attacking yourself. Sissoko wasn't permanently stationed on the right just as the heat maps showed.

No we were unable to get our passing game going because we simply lacked passing players in the most important area of the pitch. It wasnt by accident, its a consequence of the side Jose is picking and Lampard's analysis and his tactics to best it.

Ndombele in his 24 minutes on the pitch showed exactly what we were missing, someone with press resistance, someone with an eye for a pass. It was literal night and day.

I don't understand why Jose is drawing for Eriksen first, he is our past Ndombele is our future and Eriksen is hardly any more defensively sound.



Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Both of their DMs are considerably better in key areas and far more rounded than the crap we are putting out

Kovacic

Press resistance : hell yeah
Passing range : good
Passing execution : very good
Dribbling : again good

Kanye

Press resistance : hell yeah
Passing range : limited but not as much as people think, he has better range than Sissoko
Passing execution : excellent
Dribbling : again good

Now compare that to what we put out.

Dier

Press resistance : is this a joke ?
Passing range : ok
Passing execution : poooor
Dribbling : zilch

Sissoko

Press resistance : good, but then loses the ball because his overall control is brick
Passing range : brick
Passing execution : every second pass is a hospital ball
Dribbling : good but often aimless

Swap their two in for our two and the connexion of yesterday's game changes dramatically.



You focus on the goals conceded to much and not about why we were unable to mount any significant attacks of our own. That isn't down to Aurier being bone headed or Gaza's rush of blood, it's because of literal systemic issues.

Sure we conceded two frankly brick goals from our pov but conceding a goal or two doesn't stop you from attacking yourself. Sissoko wasn't permanently stationed on the right just as the heat maps showed.

No we were unable to get our passing game going because we simply lacked passing players in the most important area of the pitch. It wasnt by accident, its a consequence of the side Jose is picking and Lampard's analysis and his tactics to best it.

Ndombele in his 24 minutes on the pitch showed exactly what we were missing, someone with press resistance, someone with an eye for a pass. It was literal night and day.

I don't understand why Jose is drawing for Eriksen first, he is our past Ndombele is our future and Eriksen is hardly any more defensively sound.



Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

Don’t get Eriksen over Ndombele ... maybe he is giving him a carrot to remain
I’ve seen enough football in my life to see that having one player compensate for another leaves two gaps
I don’t rate Kovacic. He is IMO solid and no more. Kanye is world class. Their indies yesterday did very little of note as the game was won by their wide players attacking and defending... its that simple. They didn’t go through midfield and no one needs to against us.
The reason I focus on the goals we concede is because their what cost us the game. Don’t concede silly goals and you have a chance of winning...

 

[Bishop]

Don’t get Eriksen over Ndombele ... maybe he is giving him a carrot to remain
I’ve seen enough football in my life to see that having one player compensate for another leaves two gaps
I don’t rate Kovacic. He is IMO solid and no more. Kanye is world class. Their indies yesterday did very little of note as the game was won by their wide players attacking and defending... its that simple. They didn’t go through midfield and no one needs to against us.
The reason I focus on the goals we concede is because their what cost us the game. Don’t concede silly goals and you have a chance of winning...

You misunderstand my arguement, I'm not saying they went through the middle (and they did at times quite easily). I'm saying our own inability to play any sort of meaningful attacking football is because our own CM was so bereft of quality.

That isn't because we had Aurier at RB, Sissoko was not permanently station on the right. Instead when we had the ball at the back he and Dier hid behind the Chelsea press, when they did get the ball they played it back to the CBs or to another player already under pressure. The centre of midfield is the most important part of the pitch, if you can't get any going in that area (and we didn't) then everything else will look disjointed.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

 

[milo]

You misunderstand my arguement, I'm not saying they went through the middle (and they did at times quite easily). I'm saying our own inability to play any sort of meaningful attacking football is because our own CM was so bereft of quality.

That isn't because we had Aurier at RB, Sissoko was not permanently station on the right. Instead when we had the ball at the back he and Dier hid behind the Chelsea press, when they did get the ball they played it back to the CBs or to another player already under pressure. The centre of midfield is the most important part of the pitch, if you can't get any going in that area (and we didn't) then everything else will look disjointed.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

It also invites pressure. Most sides will make mistakes when they are under constant pressure.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You misunderstand my arguement, I'm not saying they went through the middle (and they did at times quite easily). I'm saying our own inability to play any sort of meaningful attacking football is because our own CM was so bereft of quality.

That isn't because we had Aurier at RB, Sissoko was not permanently station on the right. Instead when we had the ball at the back he and Dier hid behind the Chelsea press, when they did get the ball they played it back to the CBs or to another player already under pressure. The centre of midfield is the most important part of the pitch, if you can't get any going in that area (and we didn't) then everything else will look disjointed.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

It’s really not in the modern game.
Teams have been successful like pool for example by using their width and bypassing midfield. Their are many ways to play.
People get caught in the trap of possession and passing being key when the game as shown yesterday is more and more about errors.
Leicester won the league with drink water playing midfield which says it all

 

[Bishop]

It’s really not in the modern game.
Teams have been successful like pool for example by using their width and bypassing midfield. Their are many ways to play.
People get caught in the trap of possession and passing being key when the game as shown yesterday is more and more about errors.
Leicester won the league with drink water playing midfield which says it all

Pool have a good midfield, a very good midfield. It allows them speed the ball quickly. Pool dominate possession against virtually every team they play against.

Leicester played counter football with a tight defense Kante in front and yet again Drinkwater's passing range is significantly better than Sissoko or Dier's. Neither one can play the sort of passes hat routinely set Mahrez and Vardy free in address of space.

Ndombele can.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It also invites pressure. Most sides will make mistakes when they are under constant pressure.

We made mistakes vs United and Chelsea when under NO pressure. We headed out a long ball with no player putting Aurier under pressure and the same player put NO pressure on Willian either
Gaza had time to claim the ball comfortably but panicked. Alonso was pulling out and again creating NO pressure

United scored the first goal in the first few minutes. They had barely had time to put us under pressure. The penalty in that game came straight after half time by again just basic attacking

the recurring theme is we make mistakes constantly down our right hand side whilst we have a RB who cannot play as he can’t defend and offers an average attacking threat. He is therefore covered by one of the CMs who also can’t pass so that limits options. It exposes the other CM like a mutha fudgea and people then blame that man for being outnumbered. It’s not rocket science it really isn’t
When I played high level rugby we always target the wingers with kicks to see who can’t catch ... the you just repeat until they fail and you capitalise

think of it in work terms... you have someone who isn’t competent so you drag someone in from another team to help which weakens that team and kinda helps the weakness. It’s double trouble

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Pool have a good midfield, a very good midfield. It allows them speed the ball quickly. Pool dominate possession against virtually every team they play against.

Leicester played counter football with a tight defense Kante in front and yet again Drinkwater's passing range is significantly better than Sissoko or Dier's. Neither one can play the sort of passes hat routinely set Mahrez and Vardy free in address of space.

Ndombele can.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

Anyone can play the long balls over the top for counter attacking teams
And pool have improved in midfield but they still bypass it and how wide every chance they can. It’s no coincidence their creativity comes form their full backs

 

[Bishop]

We made mistakes vs United and Chelsea when under NO pressure. We headed out a long ball with no player putting Aurier under pressure and the same player put NO pressure on Willian either
Gaza had time to claim the ball comfortably but panicked. Alonso was pulling out and again creating NO pressure

United scored the first goal in the first few minutes. They had barely had time to put us under pressure. The penalty in that game came straight after half time by again just basic attacking

the recurring theme is we make mistakes constantly down our right hand side whilst we have a RB who cannot play as he can’t defend and offers an average attacking threat. He is therefore covered by one of the CMs who also can’t pass so that limits options. It exposes the other CM like a mutha fudgea and people then blame that man for being outnumbered. It’s not rocket science it really isn’t
When I played high level rugby we always target the wingers with kicks to see who can’t catch ... the you just repeat until they fail and you capitalise

think of it in work terms... you have someone who isn’t competent so you drag someone in from another team to help which weakens that team and kinda helps the weakness. It’s double trouble

That's all about the defense what about when we have the ball, when play is reset and our keeper has the ball why aren't we able to put even 3 passes together? Why can't we even get into Chelsea's half of the pitch with any degree of control?

Again that isn't because of Aurier.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That's all about the defense what about when we have the ball, when play is reset and our keeper has the ball why aren't we able to put even 3 passes together? Why can't we even get into Chelsea's half of the pitch with any degree of control?

Again that isn't because of Aurier.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

Because the team is set up to compensate for him so we sacrifice a passer in midfield
Play Ndombele and a proper right back and we would instantly look better.
Dier gets the ball and his “partner” is somewhere on the right behind the right back who is somewhere down the right wing. Dier knows his limits so passes it backwards as he can’t get it to someone else without risking it (although he did try a few clever ones yesterday). That’s exactly what happens

Did you see Kante okaying great passes yesterday? Nope he won it and passed it completely to his partner who was also playing in midfield.

 

[milo]

We made mistakes vs United and Chelsea when under NO pressure. We headed out a long ball with no player putting Aurier under pressure and the same player put NO pressure on Willian either
Gaza had time to claim the ball comfortably but panicked. Alonso was pulling out and again creating NO pressure

United scored the first goal in the first few minutes. They had barely had time to put us under pressure. The penalty in that game came straight after half time by again just basic attacking

the recurring theme is we make mistakes constantly down our right hand side whilst we have a RB who cannot play as he can’t defend and offers an average attacking threat. He is therefore covered by one of the CMs who also can’t pass so that limits options. It exposes the other CM like a mutha fudgea and people then blame that man for being outnumbered. It’s not rocket science it really isn’t
When I played high level rugby we always target the wingers with kicks to see who can’t catch ... the you just repeat until they fail and you capitalise

think of it in work terms... you have someone who isn’t competent so you drag someone in from another team to help which weakens that team and kinda helps the weakness. It’s double trouble

You're not going to find me defending Aurier. He's awful.

@Bishop is right about midfield though. You are going to struggle in any game where your midfield cannot play under pressure or find a forward ball. It means that you are going to play too much of the game in your half, where mistakes are more costly, and resort to long balls out which are a lot easier to defend against.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You're not going to find me defending Aurier. He's awful.

@Bishop is right about midfield though. You are going to struggle in any game where your midfield cannot play under pressure or find a forward ball. It means that you are going to play too much of the game in your half, where mistakes are more costly, and resort to long balls out which are a lot easier to defend against.

United beat City doing just that
We beat wolves doing just that
It comes down to basics. I mean really basic errors actually
I have no issue with forced errors when the opposition has done the bit...

 

[StephenH]

To be far to the players out there.
We where poorer in every position on the pitch!
Thought our two central defenders were quite good their defenders though were much better, Kane, Maura, Son and Dele were ineffective.


@Bedfordspurs remember last week I said it would be very tough!

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

We haven’t been the same for 18 months which is around the time dembele fudged his ankle at wolves and then never played for us again.

Can only hope Ndombele can finally stay fit now as he is head and shoulders above anything else in our squad in central midfield.

Lo Celso could also do the role and its a shame how marginalised he has become.

Sissoko is a bit of a cult hero and he does have his qualities and whilst we can win certain games with him, I think we need to move past him now and use winks, lo celso and ndombele as our options for the two central midfield positions with dier taking one of the places when there is a need for a more defensively minded central midfield player, at least until we can unearth a new matic to sign.

I think we need to move beyond aurier and sissoko now. I like them both in some ways but I think its for our benefit long term to begin easing them out now.

How much would leicester take for Pereira I wonder... we should have taken him after walker left but we opted for aurier instead.

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

On reflection Sissoko could still be useful being the defensive midfielder when one is needed.

Dont play Sissoko and Dier together. Play neither unless it is a fixture that requires a DM, then play one of them with either ndombele, lo celso or winks.

The best pairing to use yesterday may actually have been Sissoko and Ndombele.

 

[SPURSBOY]

could Foryth be any worse than Dier there, he is defensively minded but can pass better than Dier and put Ndombele next to him

 

[SteveAWOL]

Both of their DMs are considerably better in key areas and far more rounded than the crap we are putting out

Kovacic

Press resistance : hell yeah
Passing range : good
Passing execution : very good
Dribbling : again good

Kanye

Press resistance : hell yeah
Passing range : limited but not as much as people think, he has better range than Sissoko
Passing execution : excellent
Dribbling : again good

Now compare that to what we put out.

Dier

Press resistance : is this a joke ?
Passing range : ok
Passing execution : poooor
Dribbling : zilch

Sissoko

Press resistance : good, but then loses the ball because his overall control is brick
Passing range : brick
Passing execution : every second pass is a hospital ball
Dribbling : good but often aimless

Swap their two in for our two and the connexion of yesterday's game changes dramatically.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

Indeed, shocking gulf in class of midfields



Hopefully Ndombele will soon be fit enough to fill the void left by Dembele’s departure.