Sick sick world what is wrong with people

[Bedfordspurs]

There are lots of reasons that the rank and file officers are dissatisfied.

But that is quite different to claiming that Police are deliberately policing two groups differently. It is true Police will not get every decision right. But mostly that is to do with other considerations.

I used to police football matches and the notting hill carnival. The aim was to keep people safe by going after threats to life or instances of disorder. Yes some might criticise some of the offences that we did not enforce on the day, even I questioned them at times, but mostly you are just trying to keep a lid on things while the adrenaline is pouring through your own
body.

And that’s the limitations of the role
It’s all a bit daft
Maybe the mitigation is not letting 300000 people have a rally

 

[scaramanga]

There are lots of reasons that the rank and file officers are dissatisfied.

But that is quite different to claiming that Police are deliberately policing two groups differently. It is true Police will not get every decision right. But mostly that is to do with other considerations.

I used to police football matches and the notting hill carnival. The aim was to keep people safe by going after threats to life or instances of disorder. Yes some might criticise some of the offences that we did not enforce on the day, even I questioned them at times, but mostly you are just trying to keep a lid on things while the adrenaline is pouring through your own
body. Policing crowds is complex. You want the numbers remaining available on the front line rather than getting involved in enforcing all offences.

The police did arrest quite a few protesters. But it can be difficult to distinguish on the front line the difference between free speech and hate speech.

Would you accept then, that there's a difference in policing style between the two events?

We've all been to away matches where you're kettled in between horses and barriers the whole way - Stamford Bridge probably the worst of them. We've all seen fans treated with the guilty until proven innocent approach. I've never seen that approach taken at Notting Hill Carnival, although I'd admit that it's over 20 years since I've been.

 

[Robspur12]

Would you accept then, that there's a difference in policing style between the two events?

We've all been to away matches where you're kettled in between horses and barriers the whole way - Stamford Bridge probably the worst of them. We've all seen fans treated with the guilty until proven innocent approach. I've never seen that approach taken at Notting Hill Carnival, although I'd admit that it's over 20 years since I've been.

Sorry Scara which 2 events are we talking about? If it is yesterday's main march and that of the far right, although I am not party to the operational decisions I would say yes and so there should be.

The intelligence around yesterday's main march would have mostly been that it would be peaceful. But a far right march or a march by supporters of Hamas or hizbut tahrir would require a different policing style because the aim is to stop disorder which is far more likely with the latter.

Edit sorry if it is between football and notting hill, yes the policing styles will be necessarily different for all sorts of reasons. They are very different events.

 

[dawaxman]

Out of interest, how many of the pro-palestine marchers had anti-hamas placards and sang anti-hamas songs?

I understand why people in gaza can't speak out against the terror organisation, but surely those that are marching in favour of peace here in London and in other cities around the world should be campaigning against them, no???

 

[markysimmo]

Protest any day this coming week if need be but have a bit more respect for those who died saving this country which most (if not all) protesters call home and have a bit more respect for this country.

It does seem that a proportion of the protestors act like they hate everything about this country
Happy to take all the benefits, the house, they receive, etc though
If they hate it as much as a lot of them seem to, why not toddle off somewhere else

 

[spurspinter1]

I'll accept that anyone who marched against Hamas when they slaughtered Jews and are now marching against the war are genuinely there for peace. Not sure what proportion that makes up - you'll probably know better than I do.

I think you significantly underestimate just how rife anti-semitism is in this country and Europe as a whole. Significant parts of the country's opposition are/were antisemites, its previous leader is and reasonably large parts of the country voted for him/them. If those people are not active antisemites, then they're willing to ignore it as a trait in others.

Then you have a large number of godtards - they're as bad as the antisemites, but I will allow for a level of brainwashing in there. They're obviously not from the upper end of the IQ scale, so they're as likely to hate Jews because they've been told to, rather than actively deciding to.

It's clear there's a lot of the standard useful idiots in the crowd. Those who know nothing whatsoever of the situation, or don't have the intellectual capacity to properly understand it. As far as I'm concerned, if they're furthering the cause of the racists, then they're as bad.

I have said nothing to suggest I have underestimated the amount of anti semitism in the world and for you to have the gall to suggest such a thing is astounding. As you feel called out I guess it made sense to throw an accusation like that my way and if I had more self respect I'd just end the conversation here- the absolute fu king cheek of it. What has been discussed is the willingness to misuse the word, which funnily enough other Jewish posters have agreed with.

As for your typical patronizing approach to anyone with religious beliefs, I'm not going to change that and you choose to wear your ignorance/ close mindedness as a badge of honour. But you're smart enough to understand the notion of mass generalizations and stereotyping so are actively choosing to do this in a dangerous way.

As for the attempting to sidestep what is slandering 300,000+ people as monsters by the weak argument of "If they didn't march for this then they can't ever march for anything else" argument, it's tinkle poor and you again simply need to hold yourself more accountable for what you say instead of the pathetic doubling down routine.

 

[scaramanga]

I have said nothing to suggest I have underestimated the amount of anti semitism in the world and for you to have the gall to suggest such a thing is astounding. As you feel called out I guess it made sense to throw an accusation like that my way and if I had more self respect I'd just end the conversation here- the absolute fu king cheek of it. What has been discussed is the willingness to misuse the word, which funnily enough other Jewish posters have agreed with.

As for your typical patronizing approach to anyone with religious beliefs, I'm not going to change that and you choose to wear your ignorance/ close mindedness as a badge of honour. But you're smart enough to understand the notion of mass generalizations and stereotyping so are actively choosing to do this in a dangerous way.

As for the attempting to sidestep what is slandering 300,000+ people as monsters by the weak argument of "If they didn't march for this then they can't ever march for anything else" argument, it's tinkle poor and you again simply need to hold yourself more accountable for what you say instead of the pathetic doubling down routine.

I wouldn't suggest they have to march for all peace movements all over the world.

It's perfectly acceptable to expect them (if their aim really is peace between Israel and Palestinians) to march for peace when both sides attack. Especially when both events are so closely related.

 

[spurspinter1]

I wouldn't suggest they have to march for all peace movements all over the world.

It's perfectly acceptable to expect them (if their aim really is peace between Israel and Palestinians) to march for peace when both sides attack. Especially when both events are so closely related.

From what I understand the aim is peace all over the world not just in one part of it.

I didn't go on a march when 9/11 happened, it's generally a given that people are against terrorist attacks and protesting isn't going to stop terrorist cells doing what they're doing. However, protests / revolutions regarding conflicts / wars can (eventually) have an impact on governmental decisions and policies but you already know this as well as the difference between marching against terrorism versus marching for peace. I remember going to a protest against the Iraq war, because I didn't protest the terrorist attack as well does that mean I was pro the planes going in to towers?

Stop with the squirming and just do better, even by your standards these last two weak diversion posts are low. If you had anything about you, you'd apologize for the suggestion of me not recognizing the amount of hate / antisemitism as it's a completely unfounded thing to say*

*Yes it's a silly suggestion as I don't believe apologies / showing self awareness is in your repertoire.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

It does seem that a proportion of the protestors act like they hate everything about this country
Happy to take all the benefits, the house, they receive, etc though
If they hate it as much as a lot of them seem to, why not toddle off somewhere else

Oh come on. You are making a huge assumption that everyone in that “proportion” you mention are what? Asylum seekers? Because who else is getting benefits and housing other than asylum seekers? Or those who are otherwise entitled to it anyway? Or are you assuming that everyone of a certain “ilk” are claiming benefits?.
I don’t disagree that there are people who hate the country in which they live but then maybe there’s a bit of chicken and egg going on. If so much of what you experience in this country is critical of you and your motives then maybe it ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy.
And if you are British why should you toddle off somewhere else?! I am British and I am far from happy with the way this country is going at the moment but no one is suggesting that I “toddle off”.

 

[AuroRaman]

Oh come on. You are making a huge assumption that everyone in that “proportion” you mention are what? Asylum seekers? Because who else is getting benefits and housing other than asylum seekers? Or those who are otherwise entitled to it anyway? Or are you assuming that everyone of a certain “ilk” are claiming benefits?.
I don’t disagree that there are people who hate the country in which they live but then maybe there’s a bit of chicken and egg going on. If so much of what you experience in this country is critical of you and your motives then maybe it ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy.
And if you are British why should you toddle off somewhere else?! I am British and I am far from happy with the way this country is going at the moment but no one is suggesting that I “toddle off”.

Your audience is someone who not only believed, but actually shared far right propaganda that the mayor of London would suggest moving Remembrance weekend. The IQ and personal shame levels aren’t high enough where anything you say would reverberate in a reflective manner.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

It does seem that a proportion of the protestors act like they hate everything about this country
Happy to take all the benefits, the house, they receive, etc though
If they hate it as much as a lot of them seem to, why not toddle off somewhere else

Think a lot of it is also people unhappy with the government so want to link anything going wrong in the world to the current government.

When actually it has not much at all to do with the current idiots but idiots of 70 years ago.(creating the state of Israel)

 

[Grays_1890]

The issue is there two extremes right now and both are wrong
Both are breaking the law
Both are publicly spreading hate speach
But… the police are scared brickless Of using heavy hands on the peaceful march to stop the anti semitism
They were quite content to use it on the EDL apes though

Different tactics employed though, the Met are rightfully picking off those people hiding in the hundreds of thousands, been plenty of reporting of that and arrests. Its easier to nick a blanket of the EDL massive when theory MO is pure carnage, they are not even subtle about it.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Ah yes, another nonsensical propaganda point I keep seeing trotted out to the backwater inbreds to amplify.

It’s a slogan. The point of the slogan is to declare that Palestinians will be free from oppression and occupation. It rhymes and everything. Of course, some will and have used it as a statement of evil intention. But it’s important to be fair and factual as to why most use it. Or is that antisemitic? Much of the rhetoric coming from the IDF and government is promoting genocide and ethnics cleansing. But I’m guessing that sits ok with you.

If that is the case and people are aware of that potential translation then why do so many continue to chant it? Surely it would be far better to avoid the slogan and use something unambiguous? Would you use it @AuroRaman?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Different tactics employed though, the Met are rightfully picking off those people hiding in the hundreds of thousands, been plenty of reporting of that and arrests. Its easier to nick a blanket of the EDL massive when theory MO is pure carnage, they are not even subtle about it.

The met are using social media to identify people but the damage has been done to those who are now scared

 

[AuroRaman]

If that is the case and people are aware of that potential translation then why do so many continue to chant it? Surely it would be far better to avoid the slogan and use something unambiguous? Would you use it @AuroRaman?

Did you see the article I posted to Spurspinter earlier in this thread? I think it’s a fair explanation of why people believe it as a call for freedom from oppression and occupation for Palestinians and alternatively why people believe it’s a call for genocide of Jews. The bit of my post you bolded; I have never personally seen or heard anyone use it for the latter, however I’m sure I read an article that extremists have used it in that manner. I have never chanted or written it out. I thought it was very obvious that it’s not a call for genocide, especially in the recent context of a ceasefire march, and I have heard much, much worse directly from within the Israeli government directed towards Palestine and its inhabitants. It’s sad to me that the ongoing destruction of Palestinians and their homes in Gaza and West Bank is continually decentralised and dehumanised.

I saw an insta post of pics from the march and someone had created a sign with the slogan ‘From the river to the sea, Palestinians deserve to be free’. Does that feel more palatable?

 

[kb 1984]

That is not neutral, you condemned Hamas.

Though you cannot say it outright without subsuming that point into some other views you have.

Why is that do you think?

I very clearly condemned Hamas & the IDF so I would say I am neutral. I will continue to condem both sides.
Nothing to say about the UN accusing both sides of war crimes or the poor Palestinians being bombed day & night that just want it to stop

I absolutely respect your choice to support Israel but people shouldn't be asked to choose

As for the below no idea what your getting at

Though you cannot say it outright without subsuming that point into some other views you have

 

[Grays_1890]

I very clearly condemned Hamas & the IDF so I would say I am neutral. I will continue to condem both sides.
Nothing to say about the UN accusing both sides of war crimes or the poor Palestinians being bombed day & night that just want it to stop

I absolutely respect your choice to support Israel but people shouldn't be asked to choose

ÌAs for the below no idea what your getting at

Exactly this, the fact you should in anyway feel attacked on that view just sadly summises the modern world.

.

 

[Grays_1890]

Utter delusion of this spunk trumpet "last line of defence"

 

[Baleforce]

Utter delusion of this spunk trumpet "last line of defence"

View attachment 16352

what a roosterwomble, bunch of inadequate thickos

you’d hope the authorities would act, but you just know all these gammons vote Tory

 

[Finney Is Back]

Did you see the article I posted to Spurspinter earlier in this thread? I think it’s a fair explanation of why people believe it as a call for freedom from oppression and occupation for Palestinians and alternatively why people believe it’s a call for genocide of Jews. The bit of my post you bolded; I have never personally seen or heard anyone use it for the latter, however I’m sure I read an article that extremists have used it in that manner. I have never chanted or written it out. I thought it was very obvious that it’s not a call for genocide, especially in the recent context of a ceasefire march, and I have heard much, much worse directly from within the Israeli government directed towards Palestine and its inhabitants. It’s sad to me that the ongoing destruction of Palestinians and their homes in Gaza and West Bank is continually decentralised and dehumanised.

I saw an insta post of pics from the march and someone had created a sign with the slogan ‘From the river to the sea, Palestinians deserve to be free’. Does that feel more palatable?

And I have heard much worse directly from various groups of anti-semites. It’s not a point scoring match is it? Or maybe in some people’s eyes it is?

If you genuinely want peace (and not the annihilation of Israel/Jews, then why not be absolutely clear on that in your protest?

Why not just the second half of the slogan I bolded?