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Selling off your best players

N

NWND

Banned
Ok, so people have wondered about the drop off in quality of the football played as if it's some kind of mystery:

We don't have a single world class player in the squad. We have some very solid, classy performers and some potential stars among our younger players, but nobody now who consistently produces world class play. We went from having the holy trio of Bale, VDV and Modric, to just Bale. We built the team around him and his goals kept us fairly watchable. Now he's gone there's only a functional team unit grinding out results.

Liverpool have Suarez
**** have Ozil & Cazorla
Man U have RVP & Rooney
Chels and City both have several...

Is it any wonder our football has deteriorated? Our most exciting players are kids who will be inconsistent, we've sold the crown jewels - it was inevitable.
 
weve got a squad of talented players who for whatever reasons are not playing up to their talents

weve spent over 160 mill under AVB....yes, we sold players for up to 160 mill, but to be able to spend all that on strengthening the squad means we should be able to find players to play attractive and exciting football that also produces results

it looks like it will take a bit of time to put all the pieces together, but the manager and coaches have to find the winning formula
 
our squad is good enough to play better football than we have been playing.

in that alone it makes the OP point a bit null and void

swansea dont have world class players, their level of fluidity is something AVB has wet dreams about obtaining from non world class players

even everton play more fluid than we do and they were mister boring last year according to some
 
Verts, Lloris, Sandro, Soldado and Paulinho are in that calibre. Lamela and possibly Eriksen will be too.

The problem with selling your best players and reinvesting wisely (like for once we have) is that you go through a transition period whilst everyone gets used to playing together/a new way.
 
africanspurs said:
our squad is good enough to play better football than we have been playing.

in that alone it makes the OP point a bit null and void

swansea dont have world class players, their level of fluidity is something AVB has wet dreams about obtaining from non world class players

even everton play more fluid than we do and they were mister boring last year according to some
Click to expand...

Agree with your first point. We can play more exciting/fluid football with the talent in the squad.

But I don't think it's something AVB is unable to coax from us eventually or simply doesn't know how to get us there. There has to be some reason why the fluidity is really missing at the moment because it is very obviously not there.

Maybe he likes to build a squad from the back upwards, which means getting the 'without the ball' motions within the team nailed before adding possession based elements. I don't know. Maybe he's very demanding in what he wants and it takes time for the players to understand exactly what that is and carry it off in a competitive setting.

Because for all the other team's fluid football, we are 3 points off the top and are a freaky result away from having one of the best defences in Europe. There fluidity has to come from somewhere. The plan has to be there. I don't believe this is the limit of what AVB wants but I would definitely love to know how he intends to get us there and why we seem to be making slower progress towards it than other teams.
 
I don't think there is much wrong with the quality of our players. I think it is more the mix and type of players we have and the way we are set up to play. For example, we play two essentially defensive midfielders in Sandro and Paulinho, and one slow one who likes to pass backwards and sideways in Dembele. When they offload the ball to each other it is no surprise we go nowhere quickly. There is only room for one of those players in midfield - unless we really are going for a cautious approach against a very very good team.
 
You sell your best players you don't compete it's as simple as that. We may at a push nick 4th but for a team that had bale vdv and modric 2 years ago that's simply not good enough. We should be pushing for title. Liverpool and United did what they had to do this summer and refused all offers on Suarez and Rooney knew needed them to push on Unfortunately at spurs our board talk a good game but fact is they want to sell if the price is right.
 
Those saying we can play better football than we do are missing the point. World class players don't need to be coached and trained to play great football - they just do, instinctively. Swansea have been coached a certain way for ages and interestingly they're not looking as good this season precisely because they're integrating new players into their squad.

People mentioning Sandro, Soldado and whatnot in the same category as Suarez, Bale, RVP are insane. We've not spent any money at all under AVB or really under Harry either. In fact under AVB we are well in credit - we've sold Modric, Bale and VDV for about £200m and probably vastly reduced the wage bill.

That's only going to have one outcome, drop off in quality equals poorer football and more coaching effort needed to achieve the same results and cohesive performances.

Unlike Swansea we don't have a core coached in a style over years, we've thrown a tonne of new recruits from all over the world to patch the holes we've made in our own squad.

None of these players are at the level of the players they replaced yet..some have shown flashes,but we will do amazing to get top 4 with this group this season
 
NWND said:
Those saying we can play better football than we do are missing the point. World class players don't need to be coached and trained to play great football - they just do, instinctively. Swansea have been coached a certain way for ages and interestingly they're not looking as good this season precisely because they're integrating new players into their squad.

People mentioning Sandro, Soldado and whatnot in the same category as Suarez, Bale, RVP are insane. We've not spent any money at all under AVB or really under Harry either. In fact under AVB we are well in credit - we've sold Modric, Bale and VDV for about £200m and probably vastly reduced the wage bill.

That's only going to have one outcome, drop off in quality equals poorer football and more coaching effort needed to achieve the same results and cohesive performances.

Unlike Swansea we don't have a core coached in a style over years, we've thrown a tonne of new recruits from all over the world to patch the holes we've made in our own squad.

None of these players are at the level of the players they replaced yet..some have shown flashes,but we will do amazing to get top 4 with this group this season
Click to expand...

Well said
 
Swansea have been coached a certain way for ages and interestingly they're not looking as good this season precisely because they're integrating new players into their squad.

Nope disagree it's because Swansea are having to accommodate Europa League football with a relatively small squad. Losing your world class players will affect your play but that is inevitable when we are competing against the kind of money around in football today? That's not the reason we are failing to create any chances at home. There is a weakness in our playing system. It was there last season except we were literally baled out by wonder goals. Arsenal have a system that has enabled them, despite losing their best players each season, to finish 4th season after season. We need to create that kind of system here.
 
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africanspurs said:
our squad is good enough to play better football than we have been playing.

in that alone it makes the OP point a bit null and void

swansea dont have world class players, their level of fluidity is something AVB has wet dreams about obtaining from non world class players

even everton play more fluid than we do and they were mister boring last year according to some
Click to expand...

Agreed and I would add to that the fluidity shown by Southampton this season. I will qualify this by saying it is too early in the season to make any firm conclusions about teams but I have been as impressed by Southampton with their lack of "world class" players as Arsenal with their 2 or 3.
 
Who'd have thought we'd miss a World Class player - amazing revelations here




We didn't want to sell Bale and we didn't want to sell Modric and at the same time we can't buy ready made world class players (see Bale and Modric funnily enough when we signed them) as we are niether in the Champions League or able to financially compensate for it. We'll carry on buying players with potential and hope to coach them to their best.


I like the look of our squad and our potential first XI - i can see the ingredients for it to be better than what we had when Bale was here (or Luka for that matter) it remains to be seen if AvB can make the most of the squad/players at his disposal - given time i think he will.
 
Overall the squad has more potential to get through a season than previous ones but to my mind AVB has to be more flexible with his formation and tactics at home. We should not be playing one player up front just to maintain 65%/70% overall possession when it causes us to be less threatening. One up top is fine at home against the likes of Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal, Chelsea where we don't want to get caught too open but against other teams we need to concede a little bit of possession and territory in order to be more creative.

Two of our forwards occupying the back line of visiting teams will leave our wide players one v one, giving us a better chance of getting in behind and finding our forwards in the box where they can be most effective, not just on the edge of the box with their back to goal being marked by one centre back whilst the other centre back can mop up if they do manage to find space.
 
NWND said:
Those saying we can play better football than we do are missing the point. World class players don't need to be coached and trained to play great football - they just do, instinctively. Swansea have been coached a certain way for ages and interestingly they're not looking as good this season precisely because they're integrating new players into their squad.

People mentioning Sandro, Soldado and whatnot in the same category as Suarez, Bale, RVP are insane. We've not spent any money at all under AVB or really under Harry either. In fact under AVB we are well in credit - we've sold Modric, Bale and VDV for about £200m and probably vastly reduced the wage bill.

That's only going to have one outcome, drop off in quality equals poorer football and more coaching effort needed to achieve the same results and cohesive performances.

Unlike Swansea we don't have a core coached in a style over years, we've thrown a tonne of new recruits from all over the world to patch the holes we've made in our own squad.

None of these players are at the level of the players they replaced yet..some have shown flashes,but we will do amazing to get top 4 with this group this season
Click to expand...

Well, that took me back down to earth :)
 
NWND said:
Ok, so people have wondered about the drop off in quality of the football played as if it's some kind of mystery:

We don't have a single world class player in the squad. We have some very solid, classy performers and some potential stars among our younger players, but nobody now who consistently produces world class play. We went from having the holy trio of Bale, VDV and Modric, to just Bale. We built the team around him and his goals kept us fairly watchable. Now he's gone there's only a functional team unit grinding out results.

Liverpool have Suarez
**** have Ozil & Cazorla
Man U have RVP & Rooney
Chels and City both have several...

Is it any wonder our football has deteriorated? Our most exciting players are kids who will be inconsistent, we've sold the crown jewels - it was inevitable.
Click to expand...

If you haven't noticed we're 3pts ahead of City and 5 ahead of Man U and only 3pts off top spot without having any world class players.

One or 2 world class players does not make a team and we saw that last season when Bale didn't perform the team didn't perform. Our squad has the talent to more than make up for not having a Suarez, an Ozil or a Rooney but should one of those get injured do their squads have the depth to cover the loss?
 
If we had been drawing a lot of games then I could agree with you, but what did bale do for us? He won games single handed. Have we needed him to do that for most of our games this season?

No, we seem to be coping well without him and still finding those goals that win us games.

In my mind we have replaced him very well.


I think the most important point is the one papercut raises. It's a bit of Aaron Lennon syndrome from seasons past. We don't have a suited backup, so the system goes to pot a bit when one player is out injured. Hopefully Danny rose will be back soon and will last until jan when I would hope we have our eye on a second left back, assuming avb doesn't think fryers is a long term option of course.
 
Papercut said:
Is it a coincidence our play/form has dipped since Rose has been injured?
Click to expand...

I think more so for the shape of the team than missing Rose himself (not that i don't rate him) - it seemed earlier on that our full backs would provide our width, something which has been lacking since his injury.

Any word as to when he returns?
 
Libero said:
Overall the squad has more potential to get through a season than previous ones but to my mind AVB has to be more flexible with his formation and tactics at home. We should not be playing one player up front just to maintain 65%/70% overall possession when it causes us to be less threatening. One up top is fine at home against the likes of Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal, Chelsea where we don't want to get caught too open but against other teams we need to concede a little bit of possession and territory in order to be more creative.

Two of our forwards occupying the back line of visiting teams will leave our wide players one v one, giving us a better chance of getting in behind and finding our forwards in the box where they can be most effective, not just on the edge of the box with their back to goal being marked by one centre back whilst the other centre back can mop up if they do manage to find space.
Click to expand...

There's this idea that has developed on here that playing one up top is somehow more defensive than playing straight 4-4-2. It's infuriating.

People do know that for something like the last 8 years most teams have played one up top right? Playing one striker in itself isn't defensive. It's the way the whole team plays. You can be a defensive team playing a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3.

And I don't think it's AVB's intention to coach a team to play defensively. He wants us to play with balance and possession but that isn't the same as defensive. He also wants us to play with intelligence depending on the game situation - that is for example slowing the game down when we have a comfortable lead, or increasing the tempo when needed.

I think the reason for the lack of fluidity comes from the fact that in an attacking sense the new players haven't clicked yet. Some games we have done but a lot of the time it is inconsistent. Luckily our defensive shape is very good and that's the easiest thing to probably get, and therefore we've been able to look good in that sense. But one up top is not in itself defensive. Hopefully when it clicks we will be playing fluid football with one striker. It just isn't going to happen overnight.
 
Players come and go, they always have and always will. There is always going to be a slight drop in performance as the new ones get used to a new team.

The main thing is that we are winning the majority of games through this period of adjustment. Start at the back, not conceding many and keeping the ball, and work forward. We have good enough attacking players and good enough defensive players, just have to wait for them to click.
 
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