Selling off your best players

[camspur]

Players come and go, they always have and always will. There is always going to be a slight drop in performance as the new ones get used to a new team.

The main thing is that we are winning the majority of games through this period of adjustment. Start at the back, not conceding many and keeping the ball, and work forward. We have good enough attacking players and good enough defensive players, just have to wait for them to click.

If you equate performance to results there hasn't been a drop off we're actually doing better than last year.

 

[Libero]

There's this idea that has developed on here that playing one up top is somehow more defensive than playing straight 4-4-2. It's infuriating.

People do know that for something like the last 8 years most teams have played one up top right? Playing one striker in itself isn't defensive. It's the way the whole team plays. You can be a defensive team playing a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3.

And I don't think it's AVB's intention to coach a team to play defensively. He wants us to play with balance and possession but that isn't the same as defensive. He also wants us to play with intelligence depending on the game situation - that is for example slowing the game down when we have a comfortable lead, or increasing the tempo when needed.

I think the reason for the lack of fluidity comes from the fact that in an attacking sense the new players haven't clicked yet. Some games we have done but a lot of the time it is inconsistent. Luckily our defensive shape is very good and that's the easiest thing to probably get, and therefore we've been able to look good in that sense. But one up top is not in itself defensive. Hopefully when it clicks we will be playing fluid football with one striker. It just isn't going to happen overnight.

I'm not stating that one up top is defensive because as a 4-3-3, it is more offensive than a 4-5-1 yet you still only have one main forward. What I am saying is that in games where a team is very difficult to break down from the off, it makes more sense to me to play with 2 forwards, whether that be in a straight 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 so that you can have two players within a reasonable distance to eachother for interchanging the ball and occupying the centre halves. If nothing else it leaves us one on one in the attacking positions and gives Defoe the chance to spin his marker and get in on goal without a covering defender coming across because he hasn't had anyone to mark or allows Townsend/Lennon to face up their opposite number and take them on knowing that once they are past then they are much more likely to be free from an opponent closing them down as they get a cross in. On that note, crosses will help Soldado too - a number of his goals for Valencia came from swift crosses from either flank as a wide man beat a full back before whipping it in.

ATM, by playing this same style against all teams, we are not utilising the best assets of Defoe or Soldado as both are playing 95% of the game with their back to goal with nothing to feed off in terms of getting in behind. The wide players being used to support the forward are not getting close enough to Defoe/Soldado to properly assist and affect the play and when they are receiving the ball it is normally square or backwards as opposed to getting them in behind the opponents backline. So they get the ball and have a wall of defenders in front of them and even if they beat the full back and manage to make in roads into the box then the spare centre half comes across and pressures the play so they can't get the cross off or the cross comes in and the forward we are employing is marked by 2 centre halves and has no freedom or space to get on the end of what needs to then be a perfect ball.

It isn't an exact science and what I am proposing won't cure all our issues which also are down to players needing time to gel, get used to this league/country etc but by employing the same tactics/formation virtually for every opponent we are not making life easy for ourselves and that in turn puts extra pressure to perform on the likes of Soldado/Lamela who will have their fee mentioned at every turn when they aren't getting into the game when most of the time it isn't actually their fault that they aren't.

For me, it is about being adaptable and playing each game individually in a way that can unlock the opponents door and give you the best possible chance of 3 points/a win - Not just sticking with a specific formation rigidly. As we have seen over the years and as you mention, 4-4-2 is less employed now so I would suggest using it all the time, I just think that in some games it is the right formation for us and in others, the current formation is right for us.

 

[indianspur]

There's this idea that has developed on here that playing one up top is somehow more defensive than playing straight 4-4-2. It's infuriating.

People do know that for something like the last 8 years most teams have played one up top right? Playing one striker in itself isn't defensive. It's the way the whole team plays. You can be a defensive team playing a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3.

And I don't think it's AVB's intention to coach a team to play defensively. He wants us to play with balance and possession but that isn't the same as defensive. He also wants us to play with intelligence depending on the game situation - that is for example slowing the game down when we have a comfortable lead, or increasing the tempo when needed.

I think the reason for the lack of fluidity comes from the fact that in an attacking sense the new players haven't clicked yet. Some games we have done but a lot of the time it is inconsistent. Luckily our defensive shape is very good and that's the easiest thing to probably get, and therefore we've been able to look good in that sense. But one up top is not in itself defensive. Hopefully when it clicks we will be playing fluid football with one striker. It just isn't going to happen overnight.

playing one up front is only effective from an attacking point of view if you have an exceptional striker and one or two outstanding wide forwards who chip in with a lot of goals. The problem Tottenham are having is that if Soldado doesnt score, we are struggling for goals from the likes of Townsend, Eriksen, Lamela, Lennon. Siggy has provided a few, but its not enough.

anyway I prefer striking partnerships. Im not too bothered what formation is behind the front 2. I used to love watching the likes of Klinsmann and Sheringham, Berbatov and Keane, Lineker and Beardsley for England, even Dalglish and Rush, Yorke and Cole, Hughes and Cantona.... Henry and Bergkamp kinda worked unfortunately...Right now it looks like Suarez and Sturridge have hit upon a partnership and they look impressive

if a striking partnership clicks, its a wonderful thing to watch how they play off each other

 

[Danners9]

If you equate performance to results there hasn't been a drop off we're actually doing better than last year.

I didn't, as my second section covered.

There is in terms of number of goals and 'style'.

 

[NWND]

Which team/squad do you think should get more points over a season and/or play better football?

Team A:

..........................Adebayor

Bale..................Van der Vaart..............Lennon

...............Modric.................Parker

BAE...........King.................Kaboul..........Walker

..........................Friedel

Subs from:

Cudicini
Corluka
Dawson
Sandro
Livermore
Pienaar
Kranjcar
Defoe
Pavlyuchenko

Team B:

............................Soldado

Sigurdsson..............Eriksen.............Townsend

...............Paulinho............Sandro

Rose.......Vertonghen........Dawson......Walker

...........................Lloris

Subs from:

Freidel
Kaboul
Chiriches
Naughton
Capoue
Dembele
Holtby
Lamela
Lennon
Defoe
Adebayor

I'd say the quality in the first XI in team A is way ahead of team B, WAYYYYYYYY ahead. There are players of potential in the first XI in team B, but that's all and they're going ot be inconsistent.

There are a few more options in Team B's bench, but i'm not sure the quality of them is superior to team A, as in Kranjcar and Pienaar, you have people who IMO are more creative and better able to change a game with a shot or pass than the options in Team B's squad.

The only way Team B is superior is in goal and in cover for the pace on the wings as well as the defensive midfield positions.

 

[indianspur]

team A simply has more experience of PL football and/or International football

this is Siggy's second full season in the PL, Eriksen is 21 and 2 months into PL football, Townsend is 21 again and its his first full season at the top level. Soldado is new here, same with Paulinho, second seasons for Verts and Lloris

it makes a huge difference and thats why team A has a huge advantage and of course would play better football on a consistent basis. Points wise, I think team would just about edge it even though we have started the season very well so far from a points point of view

 

[billyiddo]

Over a season it's the squad which matters more than the team as the consecutive collapses with 'team A' proved (imo)

Once we find our strongest XI from the second set of players then i think we'll do better over a 38 game season and cup competitions than the first but then that's as much to do with the coach as it is with the players available

 

[Parklaner81]

Verts, Lloris, Sandro, Soldado and Paulinho are in that calibre.

In the calibre of Bale, Modric and VDV do you mean? If so, I'm sorry but I disagree. For me the OP is spot on in his analysis. The players you mention belong in the solid, classy performer category that he referred to. For the time being at least.

 

[Modric THFC]

Which team/squad do you think should get more points over a season and/or play better football?

Team A:

..........................Adebayor

Bale..................Van der Vaart..............Lennon

...............Modric.................Parker

BAE...........King.................Kaboul..........Walker

..........................Friedel

Subs from:

Cudicini
Corluka
Dawson
Sandro
Livermore
Pienaar
Kranjcar
Defoe
Pavlyuchenko

Team B:

............................Soldado

Sigurdsson..............Eriksen.............Townsend

...............Paulinho............Sandro

Rose.......Vertonghen........Dawson......Walker

...........................Lloris

Subs from:

Freidel
Kaboul
Chiriches
Naughton
Capoue
Dembele
Holtby
Lamela
Lennon
Defoe
Adebayor

I'd say the quality in the first XI in team A is way ahead of team B, WAYYYYYYYY ahead. There are players of potential in the first XI in team B, but that's all and they're going ot be inconsistent.

There are a few more options in Team B's bench, but i'm not sure the quality of them is superior to team A, as in Kranjcar and Pienaar, you have people who IMO are more creative and better able to change a game with a shot or pass than the options in Team B's squad.

The only way Team B is superior is in goal and in cover for the pace on the wings as well as the defensive midfield positions.

Team A all day. But if you swapped Modric with Paulinho Team B would function getter than team A.

 

[Gutter Boy]

In the calibre of Bale, Modric and VDV do you mean? If so, I'm sorry but I disagree. For me the OP is spot on in his analysis. The players you mention belong in the solid, classy performer category that he referred to. For the time being at least.

Yep - I think any of those five would have a good chance of holding their own at Madrid. Something the three never (at least yet) convincingly managed to do. In fact the fact that four of them are more defensive players, and therefore lower profile, is the only difference.

 

[Parklaner81]

Yep - I think any of those five would have a good chance of holding their own at Madrid. Something the three never (at least yet) convincingly managed to do. In fact the fact that four of them are more defensive players, and therefore lower profile, is the only difference.

You may be right in that they would hold their own at Madrid but that's nothing more than speculation, and really isn't the point. The point is that Modric, VDV and Bale, however they fare at other clubs, stood out as world class talents in our team, at our club. They elevated us in more ways than one. None of the players that you refer to belong anywhere near that bracket. Yet.

 

[Gutter Boy]

If you equate performance to results there hasn't been a drop off we're actually doing better than last year.

Indeed. Lets not forgot that 13 wins and a draw out of our first 16 is our 2nd best start to a season ever.

Only our double season (when we won 15 and drew 1; though remember later slipped a bit and lost 7 in total) has been better.

 

[braineclipse]

You may be right in that they would hold their own at Madrid but that's nothing more than speculation, and really isn't the point. The point is that Modric, VDV and Bale, however they fare at other clubs, stood out as world class talents in our team, at our club. They elevated us in more ways than one. None of the players that you refer to belong anywhere near that bracket. Yet.

Yet is the key word. Both Modric and Bale took considerably longer than a season to reach that level. Unfair to judge their contribution so far compared to the final product we got from Bale and Modric. VdV for me was not near the quality of Bale and Modric at their best.

The one thing that is clear is how well we've done to replace players like Bale, Modric and King in recent years. That's the key point for me. (not saying that your post says otherwise PL81)

 

[paxtonwolf]

I think more so for the shape of the team than missing Rose himself (not that i don't rate him) - it seemed earlier on that our full backs would provide our width, something which has been lacking since his injury.

Any word as to when he returns?[/QUOTE]

2014....this is Spurs we are talking about..