Ryan Sessegnon

[billyiddo]

Dier isn't being singled out, you just take criticism of him personally for some reason. Our defense is poor, Dier is part of that - beyond Romero they all have massive flaws in their game and can all be upgraded on.

 

[DubSpur]

Dier isn't being singled out, you just take criticism of him personally for some reason. Our defense is poor, Dier is part of that - beyond Romero they can all be upgraded on.

He gets singled out in a lot of games even when he plays well. He deserves criticism for yesterday, it's the only poor game he's had all season yet he is constantly being made a spacegoat.

 

[billyiddo]

He gets singled out in a lot of games even when he plays well. He deserves criticism for yesterday, it's the only poor game he's had all season yet he is constantly being made a spacegoat.

I've never seen him singled out personally, i mean apparently he's been singled out for last night but he's getting no more than anyone else.

 

[thfcsteff]

Dier isn't being singled out, you just take criticism of him personally for some reason. Our defense is poor, Dier is part of that - beyond Romero they all have nassive flaws in their game and can all be upgraded on.

If you don’t mind mate, I’d like to correct what you said. I accept criticism of mistakes, his included and he has made a few over the last two games. What I won’t accept is how every mistake leads to a roll-out of the same opinions on his ‘not being good enough’, etc. It isn’t personal on my part, it is reactive.

In a slight tangent, why do you think this same defense had 8 clean sheets out of 13 to finish last season? Upgrades can most certainly be had, but to call them ‘poor’ misses the mark for me. Against Poocash, both goals stemmed from Lloris errors, albeit the second did also involve some terrible ‘defending’ by Sess and Lenglet getting his position all wrong and thus being roasted.

 

[Bishop]

If you don’t mind mate, I’d like to correct what you said. I accept criticism of mistakes, his included and he has made a few over the last two games. What I won’t accept is how every mistake leads to a roll-out of the same opinions on his ‘not being good enough’, etc. It isn’t personal on my part, it is reactive.

In a slight tangent, why do you think this same defense had 8 clean sheets out of 13 to finish last season? Upgrades can most certainly be had, but to call them ‘poor’ misses the mark for me. Against Poocash, both goals stemmed from Lloris errors, albeit the second did also involve some terrible ‘defending’ by Sess and Lenglet getting his position all wrong and thus being roasted.

I've personally never thought Dier good enough. I see him make positional mistakes most games and his decision making is strange in key moments. I do believe the system makes the best use of him as it maximises his strengths and minimises his weaknesses by offering cover in behind. So for some one like myself Dier isn't really being singled out anymore than usual, he's just doing the things he always does, it's just that in the last few games it has cost us more than usual.

I can't remember if it was you I said it to earlier this season but pur defense really is nothing special. We pack a lot of players in when defending, we make it difficult for the opposition to find the space to shoot but that's just a byproduct of often having 8 players in and around our box.

I do believe Conte sees it the same way, if he had more trust in his defenders being able to handle situations one on one then we wouldn't sit so deep as our go to defensive action. That's not how Chelsea, Inter or Juve played. Yes they did use deep blocks at times but it wasn't their standard go to.

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[billyiddo]

If you don’t mind mate, I’d like to correct what you said. I accept criticism of mistakes, his included and he has made a few over the last two games. What I won’t accept is how every mistake leads to a roll-out of the same opinions on his ‘not being good enough’, etc. It isn’t personal on my part, it is reactive.

In a slight tangent, why do you think this same defense had 8 clean sheets out of 13 to finish last season? Upgrades can most certainly be had, but to call them ‘poor’ misses the mark for me. Against Poocash, both goals stemmed from Lloris errors, albeit the second did also involve some terrible ‘defending’ by Sess and Lenglet getting his position all wrong and thus being roasted.

Because Conte is a good defensive manager/coach and will set his teams up to best protect the clean sheet first and foremost, that means us being extra conservative to cover for the lack of talent in the back 5.

I'm not singling him out, Lloris made errors as did Lenglet, they all do far too often and between them their ability on the ball is absolutely shocking. If not always directly leading to goals it invites pressure and gives incentive to the opposition - I'd be surprised if there was a worse set of defenders in the league wrt to on the ball ability

 

[Jurgen the German]

I've personally never thought Dier good enough. I see him make positional mistakes most games and his decision making is strange in key moments. I do believe the system makes the best use of him as it maximises his strengths and minimises his weaknesses by offering cover in behind. So for some one like myself Dier isn't really being singled out anymore than usual, he's just doing the things he always does, it's just that in the last few games it has cost us more than usual.

I can't remember if it was you I said it to earlier this season but pur defense really is nothing special. We pack a lot of players in when defending, we make it difficult for the opposition to find the space to shoot but that's just a byproduct of often having 8 players in and around our box.

I do believe Conte sees it the same way, if he had more trust in his defenders being able to handle situations one on one then we wouldn't sit so deep as our go to defensive action. That's not how Chelsea, Inter or Juve played. Yes they did use deep blocks at times but it wasn't their standard go to.

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Good post. If Conte thought our CB’s were good enough then he might be more willing to play a back four and/or play a less defensive formation. Dier played in a back four under Jose and it didn’t work. Not all his fault, but individually he wasn’t cut out for it despite it being his preferred position. His distribution will always be an issue. For the most part he’s been fine this season. The question is, is fine good enough? For top 4 yes. For challenging for the title I would say no personally. I’d sell Sanchez and use whatever funds we get from his sale to fund another first choice CB to replace Dier.

 

[Jurgen the German]

He gets singled out in a lot of games even when he plays well. He deserves criticism for yesterday, it's the only poor game he's had all season yet he is constantly being made a spacegoat.

Id say he’s had more than one bad game but on the whole I agree he’s been fine this season. I’m just not sure if “fine” is good enough to challenge for trophies. He can be upgraded on. It’s not being harsh to state that IMO.

 

[90291Spur]

Id say he’s had more than one bad game but on the whole I agree he’s been fine this season. I’m just not sure if “fine” is good enough to challenge for trophies. He can be upgraded on. It’s not being harsh to state that IMO.

Let’s remember he is still young - remember how long it took walker to get to his level - and hopefully he will improve with us. Him and Udogie could be good as rotation options.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Let’s remember he is still young - remember how long it took walker to get to his level - and hopefully he will improve with us. Him and Udogie could be good as rotation options.

Was referring to Dier. Sessegnon has been disappointing on the whole but he’s not automatic first choice like Royal for example.

 

[Robspur12]

Let’s remember he is still young - remember how long it took walker to get to his level - and hopefully he will improve with us. Him and Udogie could be good as rotation options.

And I remember how unpopular Danny Rose was on here before Poch got hold of him. Wing back is the hardest position to play in. Very few can both attack and defend well, most seem to do one or the other.

 

[papaspur]

I understand that player discussions tend to happen outside their respective threads, we've probably discussed Perisic more in this thread than his own and Royal pretty much gets mentioned in every other player's thread. With that said, I don't really notice people throwing Dier under the bus. I think the consensus is that he's a good player for us, but as @Jurgen the German said, he's capable of getting us top-4, but most likely not the league.
Son, Kane, PEH, Bentancur, Sess, Royal, Lloris, Sanchez have all taken some flak this season for their performances at various times (rightly or wrongly). I'm simply not seeing this narrative that Dier is a spacegoat. I've changed my views on him so I am understanding when it comes to how our players are treated.

The flipside of spacegoating is fanboying and IMO, the latter is much worse.

 

[Baleforce]

Let’s remember he is still young - remember how long it took walker to get to his level - and hopefully he will improve with us. Him and Udogie could be good as rotation options.

he's 22, by that age Walker was one of the best in the league and an England regular

I don't think Sess counts as young anymore, he's played 160 odd professional games

 

[thfcsteff]

I've personally never thought Dier good enough. I see him make positional mistakes most games and his decision making is strange in key moments. I do believe the system makes the best use of him as it maximises his strengths and minimises his weaknesses by offering cover in behind. So for some one like myself Dier isn't really being singled out anymore than usual, he's just doing the things he always does, it's just that in the last few games it has cost us more than usual.

I can't remember if it was you I said it to earlier this season but pur defense really is nothing special. We pack a lot of players in when defending, we make it difficult for the opposition to find the space to shoot but that's just a byproduct of often having 8 players in and around our box.

I do believe Conte sees it the same way, if he had more trust in his defenders being able to handle situations one on one then we wouldn't sit so deep as our go to defensive action. That's not how Chelsea, Inter or Juve played. Yes they did use deep blocks at times but it wasn't their standard go to.

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I think Conte has been very clear on what he thinks we need, mostly three more windows of good activity to get to where he wants. I don't believe any comments about needing upgrades, etc, are particularly revolutionary in their thinking TBH. What I specifically see with us as a support base, is that the same names get singled out for overall perceived views and opinions every single time they have a bad game. Take Royal for example, who was OK on Sunday but was roasted in some online forums and reports, simply because he is a squre peg trying to operate in a round hole.

I personally don't agree with your one-on-one theory, as Conte teams simply don't set up like that. It is about the automations and everyone doing theirs at maximum. Currently, I think it is fair comment to say that we don't have one defender that can do their work at 100% efficiency. As these games grind on, and fatigue is a factor, those performance levels are going to get compromised. The truth is, he looked for Bastoni or Gvardiol and got Lenglet. I am not sure how. serious he. was over Skiriner (sp) or DeVrij (another sp!!!) but clearly, he wanted someone who could push Dier's performance levels/rotate with him. He needs Rolls Royce players in such key positions. I just think the way Dier gets picked out (and he does - has done for years here) is frankly very, very unfair commesurate with his overall performances under Conte.

 

[thfcsteff]

Good post. If Conte thought our CB’s were good enough then he might be more willing to play a back four and/or play a less defensive formation. Dier played in a back four under Jose and it didn’t work. Not all his fault, but individually he wasn’t cut out for it despite it being his preferred position. His distribution will always be an issue. For the most part he’s been fine this season. The question is, is fine good enough? For top 4 yes. For challenging for the title I would say no personally. I’d sell Sanchez and use whatever funds we get from his sale to fund another first choice CB to replace Dier.

I simply don't think this is true. I might well be wrong of course, but has he ever successfully deployed a 4 man defense? Maybe at Juventus? I cannot remember...

 

[thfcsteff]

Because Conte is a good defensive manager/coach and will set his teams up to best protect the clean sheet first and foremost, that means us being extra conservative to cover for the lack of talent in the back 5.

I'm not singling him out, Lloris made errors as did Lenglet, they all do far too often and between them their ability on the ball is absolutely shocking. If not always directly leading to goals it invites pressure and gives incentive to the opposition - I'd be surprised if there was a worse set of defenders in the league wrt to on the ball ability

Rather than repeat what I wrote in reply to Bishop, I'll let that stand as a 'sort of' reply to the Dier chat mate...on the boldface above, I think this is an enormous issue throughout the side right now, and personally believe there have been bigger culprits in midfield and upfront. Sanchez and Royal are not great on the ball as we now, and Dier is usually very competent when not flogged into the floor (his last two games have certainly shown his focus is wondering and I think it is fatigue). But repeatedly we are seeing several of our 'blue chip' players failing to control the ball competently, and it is costing us. I am not sure what the reason is; personally, it has worried me.

With regards to Sess (as this is a Sess thread and I have been part of the the hijack!) I am waiting for him to grow beyond being a 'confidence' player who needs all around him to be rolling smooth versus being a player who can take on in-game responsibilities and rise to the moment. He has the talent, he has the physique. I personally do not think he is going to make it as a trophy-winning part of our side, albeit I accept he still has a little time to prove me wrong. But frankly, he is someone I would look to upgrade in the summer, but only if we can get world class talent. In many ways, my views on Sess might be the same as some views on Dier???

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I simply don't think this is true. I might well be wrong of course, but has he ever successfully deployed a 4 man defense? Maybe at Juventus? I cannot remember...

Nope
Always been a 3 man really
He started at Chelsea with a 4 and changed to a 3 after they got battered by arsenal
3 at the back with the right players and confidence can be more attacking than 4

 

[Jurgen the German]

I simply don't think this is true. I might well be wrong of course, but has he ever successfully deployed a 4 man defense? Maybe at Juventus? I cannot remember...

He used it at Chelsea before they took a pasting against the goons then switched to a back three as Bedford said. He clearly felt they needed more protection and I imagine he feels the same with our collection of CB’s. It means we lose a body in midfield or elsewhere in the pitch. Couldn’t tell you what system he used at Inter to be fair. Probably fair to say he’s more likely to switch to a back four if he had better CB’s. It also means we have to use wasters like Sanchez when we play a back three.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I've not seen too much recently that lends anything to the fact that he is an attacking player
Too nervous, too weak for me

Positioning, off the ball runs, touch, vision. His execution has let him down a little with some of his crossing but he has also delivered a number of good crosses and key passes. I think the main thing lacking from his game is arrogance and nastiness. He needs to believe that he belongs in this group and also become more cynical in his play (i.e. just rugby tackling Almiron once he was wrong side and he was running reasonably centrally at our LCB close the edge of our box).

 

[Finney Is Back]

He used it at Chelsea before they took a pasting against the goons then switched to a back three as Bedford said. He clearly felt they needed more protection and I imagine he feels the same with our collection of CB’s. It means we lose a body in midfield or elsewhere in the pitch. Couldn’t tell you what system he used at Inter to be fair. Probably fair to say he’s more likely to switch to a back four if he had better CB’s. It also means we have to use wasters like Sanchez when we play a back three.

Who were his 3 at the back at Chelsea (I genuinely can't remember?) were at least 2 of them good on the ball?