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Ratings v West Ham
- Thread starter Mulletperm
- Start date
metalgear
Nayim
pretty much what I saw but except that i'd swap Kaboul's 5 for Naughton's 6.
it wasn't an intentional handball and certainly an undeserved red.
and i've never seen kaboul playing so badly ever before.
Mulletperm
Mauricio Taricco
Eriksen an 8? Not for me. Thought he was very quiet and somewhat sloppy.
Mosquito_Coasting
Jonathan Woodgate
Missed the first 10-15 when we were apparently playing well. Tuned in with West Ham finding it far too easy to put us under serious pressure. It all looked pretty incoherent but until we have a settled back four and get those players back, I think it will.
Lamela was giving the ball away very dangerously. I would keep him in the team of course but when Holtby and Townsend came on I think we picked up as those two are players who have high confidences and can take a game to a team.
Lamela was giving the ball away very dangerously. I would keep him in the team of course but when Holtby and Townsend came on I think we picked up as those two are players who have high confidences and can take a game to a team.
Did you watch on TV? I think people would be surprised at the amount of ground Eriksen and Lamela covered in that game, particularly down to 10 men. I think after watching that, the thing with Pochettino is that his team comes first, individuals come second. It wasn't perfect, but the team had a shape, even down to 10 and the whole team worked to keep that shape. That meant that players like Eriksen and Lamela might not have stood out in the way they can do, whether that is winning tackles or scoring/assisting, but they both worked very hard and intelligently along with other players, to be in the positions they should be on the pitch at all times to stifle West Ham's space and then be in good positions to receive the ball when we were in possession.
Eriksen put in a great shift and so did Lamela. They also both showed some nifty touches and Lamela was making some threatening runs.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
...and wham kept it very tight at the back. With no space to play in. It will be interesting to see us go a goal up, and see how they fair with more space. Wham had their new signing - some difficult to spell African name! - who was a beast closing down in the middle, and then slotting into defence after the red. Wham have a fantastic defensive setup and smothered our attacks most of the game.
In a way you'd want to play the same team again on Thursday, before rotating for the league game on Sunday. Just to keep some consistency. Otherwise do you play the WC players and then this team again next week?
In a way you'd want to play the same team again on Thursday, before rotating for the league game on Sunday. Just to keep some consistency. Otherwise do you play the WC players and then this team again next week?
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braineclipse
Willie Hall
I pretty much agree with this. I would give Rose a 6 as I thought he was better than most people here are saying. Might be tempted to giving Ade a 4, but if we're using decimals now a 4.5 might be alright
If not for Lloris saving one on one Holtby would have been the spacegoat for completely failing to track his man. He does have a lot of energy, but he's still lacking the discipline to use that energy in the best possible way.
yiddo37
Niko Kranjcar
Interesting you say that as according to Matt Le Tisssier on soccer Saturday Southampton had never came from behind to win a game last season so how would we have dealt with going 1 down from the pen?
Anyway my ratings based on football first viewing;
Lloris 7 - still average distribution but great save from Downing.
Naughton 6 - going by the rules (hands were up by his head so unfairly blocking the shot) I don't see what else the officials could have done, otherwise competent from Kyle.
Rose 5 - some good forward play and a couple of defensive ones but how many times did he let Downing get a cross in that nearly led to a goal? I counted 3 just from the highlights.
Dier 8 - +1 for the goal, looks very promising.
Kaboul 4 - very poor, can't think of anything he did well.
Lennon 5 - largely anonymous, seems to spend most of the games he plays in the full-back position.
Lamela 5 - didn't contribute much and some misplaced passes.
Eriksen 6 - tried to get involved but struggled by his standards and quite a few stray passes.
Capoue 6 - jury still out, not exactly sure how good he can be and weak 'tackle' on Downing almost cost the game.
Bentaleb 6 - composed, the best of our midfielders.
Adebayor 5 - one of those games where he didn't show up, not a lot of service to him to be fair.
Subs;
Holtby 5 - not much impact.
Townsend 7 - gave the team added 'oomph'.
Kane 6 - great through ball for the goal.
Overall- early days and a lot of 'getting to know you' amongst the players. Ground out a great 3 points which we really didn't deserve.
His clever run caused red for Collins, which was a turning point.
The only thing he done well for me all day. He's much better than he showed yesterday
milo
Jack L. Jones
I agree. I think that the issue is match sharpness.
I think it's difficult to be too critical of yesterday - the combination of it being first match of the season, a new manager and being down to 10 men for a significant period meant yesterday became about trying to hang on for the draw. Then, West Ham having been reduced to 10-men, i think we then looked far better. All things considered i think it was a promising start - not many teams would have welcomed a trip to Upton Park on the first day of the season and very few would have come away with 3 points.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
What happens now with the WC players? Dripped into the side one by one? Rotation? And who would you bring in and for whom?
We have so many 'good' but not exceptional players. The question is, who can become exceptional. Who has the potential to win games consistently in the future? As they are pretty even, its a really hard job to decide who goes, and its more or less personal preference. No one stands out on ability alone.
For me: Lennon, Kane, Kaboul, Naughton drop down the pecking order. Its tough on Kane. He's played well and should get more sub and cup appearances or a Prem loan if we get another forward in.
The CM positions are the hardest. Is Bentaleb ready? Great passing, but is the rest of his game there yet? A Prem loan where he can play every week would be ideal. But he fits with Poch's play. The two CMs are key, and who will evolve into first choice?
I would like to see Dembele back. With Bentaleb or Capoue. Sandro is undoubtedly quality, but his passing ability maybe does not fit with Poch and he will get injured. I think Capoue + Dembele could be very strong. Another consideration is goals. You'd want the CMs to arrive late into the box or pick off the odd goal from a corner to add 15 odd goals over the season. Will we sell Paulinho? He offers the goals. Not to mention Holtby.
In short we need to sell or loan at least one of the the CMs, just to make Poch's task of building a settled side easier. The right offer for any of these CM players and we have to take it. I would find losing Dembele hard as he can be unplayable and Id like to see what Poch could get out of him. We know Holtby and Bentaleb have more to come and would be missed, but if the right offer is made you'd have to consider it. If Paulinho could score the goals and improve his all round game, then he's a keeper. I guess it all depends on how they do in training. But Capoue and Sandro look the most expendable.
CB - the prospect of a Verts-Dier pairing is mouth watering. Both accomplished with the ball on the ground. Able to move forward and pass well. Big enough and strong enough, but able to defend well? Certainly an exciting potential partnership. Which means Daws and Kaboul ideally could go. Chiricheș too if the offer was right. Could 'arry take Kaboul off us? Dawson to Hull? We only need to sell one, if we don't sign another CB.
Goals. Who will score them? I would be temped to get both Ade and Soldado into the team. Soldado could be a poacher and get 20 a season. He has done it before, though not in England. Ade would play the no 10 or on the left wing, swapping with Eriksen etc. Eriksen starts. And then Lamela and Townsend for the final place. Which means Lennon is surplus/ backup.
So sell Daws, Lennon, Capoue/ Sandro and possibly Soldado. Bring in one or two exceptional forward players like Depay and/or an out and out striker.
We have so many 'good' but not exceptional players. The question is, who can become exceptional. Who has the potential to win games consistently in the future? As they are pretty even, its a really hard job to decide who goes, and its more or less personal preference. No one stands out on ability alone.
For me: Lennon, Kane, Kaboul, Naughton drop down the pecking order. Its tough on Kane. He's played well and should get more sub and cup appearances or a Prem loan if we get another forward in.
The CM positions are the hardest. Is Bentaleb ready? Great passing, but is the rest of his game there yet? A Prem loan where he can play every week would be ideal. But he fits with Poch's play. The two CMs are key, and who will evolve into first choice?
I would like to see Dembele back. With Bentaleb or Capoue. Sandro is undoubtedly quality, but his passing ability maybe does not fit with Poch and he will get injured. I think Capoue + Dembele could be very strong. Another consideration is goals. You'd want the CMs to arrive late into the box or pick off the odd goal from a corner to add 15 odd goals over the season. Will we sell Paulinho? He offers the goals. Not to mention Holtby.
In short we need to sell or loan at least one of the the CMs, just to make Poch's task of building a settled side easier. The right offer for any of these CM players and we have to take it. I would find losing Dembele hard as he can be unplayable and Id like to see what Poch could get out of him. We know Holtby and Bentaleb have more to come and would be missed, but if the right offer is made you'd have to consider it. If Paulinho could score the goals and improve his all round game, then he's a keeper. I guess it all depends on how they do in training. But Capoue and Sandro look the most expendable.
CB - the prospect of a Verts-Dier pairing is mouth watering. Both accomplished with the ball on the ground. Able to move forward and pass well. Big enough and strong enough, but able to defend well? Certainly an exciting potential partnership. Which means Daws and Kaboul ideally could go. Chiricheș too if the offer was right. Could 'arry take Kaboul off us? Dawson to Hull? We only need to sell one, if we don't sign another CB.
Goals. Who will score them? I would be temped to get both Ade and Soldado into the team. Soldado could be a poacher and get 20 a season. He has done it before, though not in England. Ade would play the no 10 or on the left wing, swapping with Eriksen etc. Eriksen starts. And then Lamela and Townsend for the final place. Which means Lennon is surplus/ backup.
So sell Daws, Lennon, Capoue/ Sandro and possibly Soldado. Bring in one or two exceptional forward players like Depay and/or an out and out striker.
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I don't see why we'd loan Bentaleb when we have nobody who is head and shoulders above him.
IMO, play Capoue with Bentaleb, and rotate in Sandro and Dembele depending on form, fitness, opposition or whatever.
For Centre-Back, it's Vertonghen with one other. Going by yesterday, perhaps that could be Dier. Chiriches becomes Vertonghen's back up, Kaboul likewise for Dier -- though it's too early to say whether Dier is ready for a full season and imo, Kaboul will be first choice alongside Vert just as soon as he has a bit of sharpness and a few more games under his belt.
At most, we might sell Dawson, along with BAE and some youngsters will get loaned out. So the squad ends up something like:
----------------------------------------lloris/vorm/friedel
walker/naughton/fredericks--------kaboul/dier--------vert/chiriches/fryers--------rose/davies
-----------------------------capoue/sandro------------bentaleb/dembele/mason
-----eriksen/holtby/------------------lamela/paulinho---------------lennon/townsend/chadli
----------------------------------------ade/soldado/kane
That's 28 players, minus 4 U21's (Dier, Davies, Bentaleb, Kane) to give 24 players, 8 of whom are homegrown (which meets the minimum requirement of 8: walker/naughton/fredericks/fryers/rose/mason/lennon/townsend).
IMO, play Capoue with Bentaleb, and rotate in Sandro and Dembele depending on form, fitness, opposition or whatever.
For Centre-Back, it's Vertonghen with one other. Going by yesterday, perhaps that could be Dier. Chiriches becomes Vertonghen's back up, Kaboul likewise for Dier -- though it's too early to say whether Dier is ready for a full season and imo, Kaboul will be first choice alongside Vert just as soon as he has a bit of sharpness and a few more games under his belt.
At most, we might sell Dawson, along with BAE and some youngsters will get loaned out. So the squad ends up something like:
----------------------------------------lloris/vorm/friedel
walker/naughton/fredericks--------kaboul/dier--------vert/chiriches/fryers--------rose/davies
-----------------------------capoue/sandro------------bentaleb/dembele/mason
-----eriksen/holtby/------------------lamela/paulinho---------------lennon/townsend/chadli
----------------------------------------ade/soldado/kane
That's 28 players, minus 4 U21's (Dier, Davies, Bentaleb, Kane) to give 24 players, 8 of whom are homegrown (which meets the minimum requirement of 8: walker/naughton/fredericks/fryers/rose/mason/lennon/townsend).
SUIYHA
Scott Parker
Lloris - 8 - Good saves from Downing and Noble, will be very important for us this season.
Naughton - 5 - Unlucky, but rules are rules.
Kaboul - 5 - Poor for much of the game, but got better in the second half. Was good to see a burst of pace from him down the right hand side near the end suggesting that he may still be able to get back to his best.
Dier - 9 - Superb debut. Clean sheet, comfortable on the ball, played in lots of different positions and then a striker's composure to round the keeper and score a last minute away winner against a team in their cup final.
Rose - 5 - Struggled against Downing, and we will face far better wingers than Downing this season
Bentaleb - 7 - Composed on the ball and passed it around well. Carrick was playing in the Championship when he was 3 years older than Bentaleb is now.
Capoue - 6 - Very ordinary. Really hope we don't sell Sandro.
Lamela - 6 - Tried to make things happen but nothing really came off for him today.
Eriksen - 5 - Far from his best today
Lennon - 4 - Anonymous. Rightfully substituted
Adebayor - 6 - Was ok
Subs:
Townsend - 7 - Galvanised the team when he came on. Good performance, full of energy, now we need to see the end product.
Holtby - 6 - Did ok
Kane - N/A - Unfair to give a full rating to with such little time, but a great through ball. I still don't think he's technically good enough to play a major role here, but I have always thought his reading of the game is far above a lot of his peers, especially those of his age.
Poch - 7 - On paper, this was a great result, to win away from home after going down to 10 men early in the first half against a team in their cup final who were extra fired up for the game, a team who beat us three times last season. That's only part of the story though, as we were crap for much of the game, especially in the first half before we even went down to 10, and it was only poor finishing from West Ham that kept us in the game. During our one goal conceded in nine games run at the start of last season, I expressed concern that this was only the case because of poor opposition finishing and that our luck would run out eventually, which it did, first against West Ham and then obviously at the Etihad, and things all fell to pieces. The reason I was a bit more impressed this time was because the team, whilst still obviously lacking a bit of flair and technical skill in the final third, there is a vast improvement in the movement of our players which will hopefully get better as time goes on. One touch passing and then running immediately to find some space for a return ball is something that we've seen far too little of over the previous two seasons, so it's good to see it coming back.
In summary, a positive start in difficult circumstances, but we'll need to do better.
Naughton - 5 - Unlucky, but rules are rules.
Kaboul - 5 - Poor for much of the game, but got better in the second half. Was good to see a burst of pace from him down the right hand side near the end suggesting that he may still be able to get back to his best.
Dier - 9 - Superb debut. Clean sheet, comfortable on the ball, played in lots of different positions and then a striker's composure to round the keeper and score a last minute away winner against a team in their cup final.
Rose - 5 - Struggled against Downing, and we will face far better wingers than Downing this season
Bentaleb - 7 - Composed on the ball and passed it around well. Carrick was playing in the Championship when he was 3 years older than Bentaleb is now.
Capoue - 6 - Very ordinary. Really hope we don't sell Sandro.
Lamela - 6 - Tried to make things happen but nothing really came off for him today.
Eriksen - 5 - Far from his best today
Lennon - 4 - Anonymous. Rightfully substituted
Adebayor - 6 - Was ok
Subs:
Townsend - 7 - Galvanised the team when he came on. Good performance, full of energy, now we need to see the end product.
Holtby - 6 - Did ok
Kane - N/A - Unfair to give a full rating to with such little time, but a great through ball. I still don't think he's technically good enough to play a major role here, but I have always thought his reading of the game is far above a lot of his peers, especially those of his age.
Poch - 7 - On paper, this was a great result, to win away from home after going down to 10 men early in the first half against a team in their cup final who were extra fired up for the game, a team who beat us three times last season. That's only part of the story though, as we were crap for much of the game, especially in the first half before we even went down to 10, and it was only poor finishing from West Ham that kept us in the game. During our one goal conceded in nine games run at the start of last season, I expressed concern that this was only the case because of poor opposition finishing and that our luck would run out eventually, which it did, first against West Ham and then obviously at the Etihad, and things all fell to pieces. The reason I was a bit more impressed this time was because the team, whilst still obviously lacking a bit of flair and technical skill in the final third, there is a vast improvement in the movement of our players which will hopefully get better as time goes on. One touch passing and then running immediately to find some space for a return ball is something that we've seen far too little of over the previous two seasons, so it's good to see it coming back.
In summary, a positive start in difficult circumstances, but we'll need to do better.
Similar to some others
Very good game for Lloris & Dier
Kaboul & Ade obviously not "match fit" (to milo and dza's point)
At moments we held the ball very well, made some neat passing but it isn't quite there yet, Eriksen probably the best example, tried a few "great idea" passes that didn't quite come off.
Biggest concern was how often Downing got balls in, interestingly it didn't seem Rose had a bad game (less direct mistakes and none of the OTT fouling), but we didn't close Downing down/off.
Poch is the one I really want to comment on, because I think a few people missed a couple of points.
- Brave selection to put Dier in there
- Very smart to do early substitutions (60 mins) considering we had been down to 10 early, subs were all players who would bring energy
- Bit of luck, wil be interesting to see who he plays in Europe vs. next week-end.
Very good game for Lloris & Dier
Kaboul & Ade obviously not "match fit" (to milo and dza's point)
At moments we held the ball very well, made some neat passing but it isn't quite there yet, Eriksen probably the best example, tried a few "great idea" passes that didn't quite come off.
Biggest concern was how often Downing got balls in, interestingly it didn't seem Rose had a bad game (less direct mistakes and none of the OTT fouling), but we didn't close Downing down/off.
Poch is the one I really want to comment on, because I think a few people missed a couple of points.
- Brave selection to put Dier in there
- Very smart to do early substitutions (60 mins) considering we had been down to 10 early, subs were all players who would bring energy
- Bit of luck, wil be interesting to see who he plays in Europe vs. next week-end.