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Putin & Russia

Gazza Dazzla said:
I’ve heard a few posters and commentators say the world needs to give Putin a way out of this. What does that look like in reality? lifting sanctions, recognize some of his claims to Ukrainian land?

a strong man wouldn’t have to be a war lord.
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I think you are forgetting here that this will largely come down to Ukraine who have expressed the desire to retain their territory. The desires of the wider world come a distant second.
 
johnola said:
I think you are forgetting here that this will largely come down to Ukraine who have expressed the desire to retain their territory. The desires of the wider world come a distant second.
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Think you’ve misunderstood my post.

The wider world are the ones who have placed the sanctions and are currently not recognizing Putin’s redrawing of the map. Some posters/commentators are saying this needs to change to allow Putin a win somewhere along the line. I personally disagree with that, thought that was obvious?

ofcourse Ukraine quite rightly won’t accept anything Less than a full withdrawal and will keep fighting until that happens. That’s just common sense. Ukraine aren’t the ones placing sanctions though.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
I’ve heard a few posters and commentators say the world needs to give Putin a way out of this. What does that look like in reality? lifting sanctions, recognize some of his claims to Ukrainian land?

a strong man wouldn’t have to be a war lord.
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The only way out anyone should give this genocidal maniac is through a top story window. He deserves nothing better and probably far worse. His own people will 'take care' of him when Russia loses the war. That is the Russian way.
 
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Gazza Dazzla said:
Think you’ve misunderstood my post.

The wider world are the ones who have placed the sanctions and are currently not recognizing Putin’s redrawing of the map. Some posters/commentators are saying this needs to change to allow Putin a win somewhere along the line. I personally disagree with that, thought that was obvious?

ofcourse Ukraine quite rightly won’t accept anything Less than a full withdrawal and will keep fighting until that happens. That’s just common sense. Ukraine aren’t the ones placing sanctions though.
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It is a proxy war. A reignition of the Cold War really. Without western intervention, Ukraine would already be controlled by Russia. 40 years ago it was part of the Russian empire/USSR. Our arms and intelligence are fundamental to Ukraine's independence. The West is spending billions to support Ukraine. Putin may bide his time until the west no longer has the appetite to fund the war. The 'Big Game' has been ongoing for a century or more. The US funding the Contras in Latin America against a Marxist government or the tug of war over Afghanistan between the USSR and the US, this conflict is not really a new phenomenon. The EU offers Ukraine some hope of a free future, but they are a long way from having autonomy.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Think you’ve misunderstood my post.

The wider world are the ones who have placed the sanctions and are currently not recognizing Putin’s redrawing of the map. Some posters/commentators are saying this needs to change to allow Putin a win somewhere along the line. I personally disagree with that, thought that was obvious?

ofcourse Ukraine quite rightly won’t accept anything Less than a full withdrawal and will keep fighting until that happens. That’s just common sense. Ukraine aren’t the ones placing sanctions though.
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You said the wider world might want to support the accession of Ukrainian territory to the Russians!
 
Rorschach said:
The only way out anyone should give this genocidal maniac is through a top story window. He deserves nothing better and probably far worse. His own people will 'take care' of him when Russia loses the war. That is the Russian way.
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Russia won't lose this war now, Putins proven that he who controls food and energy rules the roost, as much as Europe believe the Davos supported idea that those that control the pound and dollar do its the west that's going to suffer most in the winter. When he turns the taps off in the deepest winter and plunges more than the 250m global current habitants than already exist into food and energy poverty they will win, especially when that supported with casting the Eastern Ukraine territories into Russian control officially.

You can't negotiate with someone you cant say no to and unfortunately the world sold its soul a long time ago to that maniac.

It's Romantic to think the Ukraine and west wil win but its also hugely naive in my opinion
 
Grays_1890 said:
Russia won't lose this war now, Putins proven that he who controls food and energy rules the roost, as much as Europe believe the Davos supported idea that those that control the pound and dollar do its the west that's going to suffer most in the winter. When he turns the taps off in the deepest winter and plunges more than the 250m global current habitants than already exist into food and energy poverty they will win, especially when that supported with casting the Eastern Ukraine territories into Russian control officially.

You can't negotiate with someone you cant say no to and unfortunately the world sold its soul a long time ago to that maniac.

It's Romantic to think the Ukraine and west wil win but its also hugely naive in my opinion
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I wouldn't agree with any of that really. Russia has more or less lost the war already. It is just a matter of time as they are conceding ground on every front. The new conscripts won't make feck all difference.

He's already shot his load on the energy front and the food is also getting out now. His only leverage is the threat of nukes. He's done.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Russia won't lose this war now, Putins proven that he who controls food and energy rules the roost, as much as Europe believe the Davos supported idea that those that control the pound and dollar do its the west that's going to suffer most in the winter. When he turns the taps off in the deepest winter and plunges more than the 250m global current habitants than already exist into food and energy poverty they will win, especially when that supported with casting the Eastern Ukraine territories into Russian control officially.

You can't negotiate with someone you cant say no to and unfortunately the world sold its soul a long time ago to that maniac.

It's Romantic to think the Ukraine and west wil win but its also hugely naive in my opinion
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Nonsense. The exact opposite of this.
 
It is just going to get worse and worse for the Russians now.

The bridge has gone. It’s a hugely significant blow to Russia and a huge kick in the nuts for Putin.
 
johnola said:
It is just going to get worse and worse for the Russians now.

The bridge has gone. It’s a hugely significant blow to Russia and a huge kick in the nuts for Putin.
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It's quite a tightrope - the Ukrainians need to perhaps win slowly and steadily, rather than spectacular incidents like this. Unless they are really confident a coup will come from within before putin tantrums to the max
 
Rorschach said:
Wow. I didn't think they would do that for a while. That'll ramp up the exodus from Crimea now.
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Me neither. The implications are massive. Saw a very good video of why it was unlikely they would blow it up. If it can't be used, the Russians in crimea don't have an easy escape route, and when battling with their back to the wall, who knows what they might do!
 
Is there a realistic chance that Putin will use nukes? Does he actually think he would win if America and other European nations got involved? Wouldn’t normally endorse this, but someone just needs to take him out. I’m sure the CIA could pull it off if they were motivated too.
 
dingdongo said:
If Ukraine forces Russia to retreat could they ever stop these missile attacks?
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Ukraine are forcing Russia to retreat.

But there is little that can be done to stop missile attacks.

But they can and do claim to shoot some down - their capability to do so might be improved by giving them some more advance technology (I presume nato has a lot of that sort of stuff- not sure).

Anyway, it’s another cowardly asymmetric and yet pointless response from them.
 
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