• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics

No doubt. Leave are on record as saying they knew if the campaign was about the economy they would lose, that they had to make it about immigration. The Russian cash helped them isolate what it was they had to focus on. They were far better prepared with Cambridge Analytica and maybe other agencies doing market research. Aaron Banks book on the campaign says something like: "we knew that if the last week of the campaign was about economy, we had lost, we had to focus on immigration"

There was a definite and concerted effort to turn the narrative onto migrants. The poster of Turkey and the big queue of people etc A cynical and unfactual way to play politics.

Did the Remain campaign fail completely or was it outfunded?
 
Was going to ask that previously after your first post this evening - is there a big conspiracy? But then thought, no there is more going on here, and to focus on the grand conspiracy is to become a touch deluded maybe. But...if we had a GG hit man we should deploy deploy deploy....which poster would you give the job to...?
 
SpurMeUp said:
No doubt. Leave are on record as saying they knew if the campaign was about the economy they would lose, that they had to make it about immigration. The Russian cash helped them isolate what it was they had to focus on. They were far better prepared with Cambridge Analytica and maybe other agencies doing market research. Aaron Banks book on the campaign says something like: "we knew that if the last week of the campaign was about economy, we had lost, we had to focus on immigration"

There was a definite and concerted effort to turn the narrative onto migrants. The poster of Turkey and the big queue of people etc A cynical and unfactual way to play politics.

Did the Remain campaign fail completely or was it outfunded?
Click to expand...

Which was literally. No joke. out of the nazi playbook.

I interviewed a survivor a few years ago. He was very scathing of the west. He said that so many more Jewish people could have been saved pre the Holocaust if they (the west) let more people in. Most worryingly he said society has learnt no lessons as what was happening then. Is happening now. I thought he was wrong then... Now I'm not so sure.
 
I agree. But it's more than that. Steve Bannon is a fudging Nazi (or as close as). Yet we have members of our parliament meeting with him. What the fudge man???
 
Yet if the circumstantial evidence of Bannon being funded by Russia is true, and it was repeated with Aaron Banks....you have a grand conspiracy. Though it seems that Russia might have spent money on both Trump and Clinton - so that it effectively had had an agent influencing the future president. If conspiracy theories are to be believed.

One thing is for sure, Banks is no savvy millionaire. Watching him at the public enquiry and previously hearing a radio 4 show interviewing him post brexit, it was clear that the way he conducted himself was not consistent with an individual of his supposed acumen and success. Bannon and Mercer, who knows? I haven't seen or heard much of Bannon bar a newsnight interview. On that he didn't seem to be particularly comfortable with accusations of racism, and his financial backing of Tommy Robinson (if true) seems inconsistent. Populism in theory sails close to overt racism but doesn't cross that line.
 
Last edited:
DTA said:
I agree. But it's more than that. Steve Bannon is a fudging Nazi (or as close as). Yet we have members of our parliament meeting with him. What the fudge man???
Click to expand...

What if he is not? Imagine he's a guy that got rich off laundering money for Russian secrete services. He liked the money. But now he's their bitch. He has to fund Robinson or his paymaster is not happy. I don't know much about Bannon. But would be interesting to see if there is more verified evidence of links between his investment funds and Russia.

Edit: Mercer is the hedge fund guy. How did Bannon make his money?
 
SpurMeUp said:
Bannon, who knows. I haven't seen or heard much of him bar a newsnight interview. On that he didn't seem to be particularly comfortable with accusations of racism
Click to expand...

The dude is a fudging right wing nut job. Alt right is a combination of nazis the far right, the almost far right and the mainstream right. Coming together to reverse liberalism... Except we have have let their discourse of liberalism being a bad thing gain traction. What does liberalism mean? To me in its fundamental state, it means live and let live. A mixture of capitalism and socialism. Let people that work hard make money but those less fortunate, let's have a saftey net. Those that want to believe in a GHod that you don't... Fine. As long as everyone has the freedom to do so... Or not believe at all. Those that that prefer men to women... no worries guys have at it... It's none of our business.

That seems all fair to me. So what the fudge is so wrong with liberalism... I'm interested to find out.
 
DTA said:
The dude is a fudging right wing nut job. Alt right is a combination of nazis the far right, the almost far right and the mainstream right. Coming together to reverse liberalism... Except we have have let their discourse of liberalism being a bad thing gain traction. What does liberalism mean? To me in its fundamental state, it means live and let live. A mixture of capitalism and socialism. Let people that work hard make money but those less fortunate, let's have a saftey net. Those that want to believe in a GHod that you don't... Fine. As long as everyone has the freedom to do so... Or not believe at all. Those that that prefer men to women... no worries guys have at it... It's none of our business.

That seems all fair to me. So what the fudge is so wrong with liberalism... I'm interested to find out.
Click to expand...

Yep. See political correctness or, as it should be called, treating people with respect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DTA
milo said:
400%. Johnson and JRM should be ostracised by moderate Tories for what they are doing. Will the Tories stand by and let the far right take them over after May has fallen? I think that their MPs keeping them off the ballot is the only way to stop it happening.
Click to expand...
The EU is sticking its head in the sand over immigration though. The migration crisis is the biggest threat to the EU and immigration was the single biggest reason for “Leave’s” victory in our referendum. The immigration policy is giving succour to the far right.
 
Robspur12 said:
The EU is sticking its head in the sand over immigration though. The migration crisis is the biggest threat to the EU and immigration was the single biggest reason for “Leave’s” victory in our referendum. The immigration policy is giving succour to the far right.
Click to expand...

Freedom of movement and illegal immigration are completely different issues though.

I agree that illegal immigration and the refugee crisis are very real issues and need multinational corporation to tackle.
 
milo said:
Freedom of movement and illegal immigration are completely different issues though.

I agree that illegal immigration and the refugee crisis are very real issues and need multinational corporation to tackle.
Click to expand...
Freedom of movement is a massive issue mate and the EU are failing to take this into account. Focusing solely on illegal immigration masks this. Communities couldn’t cope with the sheer number of migrants from Europe. It was too many too quickly. Taking back “control of our borders” was a big reason for voters choosing leave over remain.
 
Robspur12 said:
Freedom of movement is a massive issue mate and the EU are failing to take this into account. Focusing solely on illegal immigration masks this. Communities couldn’t cope with the sheer number of migrants from Europe. It was too many too quickly.
Click to expand...

Except it's not. The places in the UK with the most amount of immigrants all voted to stay in the EU I believe.

It's not immigration that's the problem. It's the fear of immigrants that is.
 
DTA said:
Except it's not. The places in the UK with the most amount of immigrants all voted to stay in the EU I believe.

It's not immigration that's the problem. It's the fear of immigrants that is.
Click to expand...

It’s not about the actual numbers but the numbers that came into a particular community in a short space of time. My area, for example, voted Leave as there is a shortage of school places, pressure on GP services and A&E. Legal immigration has added to the numbers in the community which has spooked the local population. When I was growing up here 25 years ago, my family was one of the few immigrant families in a largely white, English community. Now there is far more diversity but it has changed very quickly.
 
Robspur12 said:
It’s not about the actual numbers but the numbers that came into a particular community in a short space of time. My area, for example, voted Leave as there is a shortage of school places, pressure on GP services and A&E. Legal immigration has added to the numbers in the community which has spooked the local population. When I was growing up here 25 years ago, my family was one of the few immigrant families in a largely white, English community. Now there is far more diversity but it has changed very quickly.
Click to expand...

What area are you from if you don't mind me asking?
 
Robspur12 said:
Sutton, in South London.
Click to expand...

I moved last year into one of the five london boroughs that backed Brexit (from one that didnt).what I have noticed is they all are in outer London. And all have less exposure to EU immigrants than those that voted to remain.

Was chatting to a leave voting neighbor (son of an immigrant) been here 30 years genuinely great and welcoming guy. Completely missinformed about EU freedom of movement and what it means. When I politely quizzed him on where he got his (misinformed) views from… he basically said a mate told him. Again the problem is not freedom of movement, it's perception and misinformation.
 
DTA said:
I moved last year into one of the five london boroughs that backed Brexit (from one that didnt).what I have noticed is they all are in outer London. And all have less exposure to EU immigrants than those that voted to remain.

Was chatting to a leave voting neighbor (son of an immigrant) been here 30 years genuinely great and welcoming guy. Completely missinformed about EU freedom of movement and what it means. When I politely quizzed him on where he got his (misinformed) views from… he basically said a mate told him. Again the problem is not freedom of movement, it's perception and misinformation.
Click to expand...
Probably very true, but in my experience most ordinary people would not want to admit to being xenophobic.
 
DTA said:
Was chatting to a leave voting neighbor (son of an immigrant) been here 30 years genuinely great and welcoming guy.
Click to expand...

Btw mate I know plenty of non EU immigrants who voted leave on the basis of “concerns” over immigration. Some believed it would dampen the house prices while others believed if European immigration was controlled they would have a better chance of their own immigration applications succeeding. When I listened to them it made me realise how ridiculous the referendum was in the first place. It allowed such a complex decision to be reduced to such narrow and self serving agendas.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back