Politics, politics, politics

[Danishfurniturelover]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1005498543740727301

Considering that Clegg, Blair and Clarke have been in cahoots with Brussels all along I am not sure what the issue is there. Both are dealing with non British people to effect the outcome of a British election.

I would trust Prutin far more then the crooks in Brussels who just want our money, or why would they be so opposed to us leaving and why would they be trying to stop us doing trade deals with the rest of the world if when we sell to the EU we follow all EU rules. What has it got to do with Brussles if we want to set up a trade deal with Kenya.

Unless despite what it says the EU is a protectionist state with a racist element. Odd that they should be so against Trump and his tariffs yet that is exactly what they want to do to the UK, the height of hypocrisy but sort of what you expect from financial gangsters. I started the thread slagging off Trump I hate his racist, sexist and anti disabled views. But my GHod we need a Trump or Maggie to just get stuff done.

We should have been signing trade deals with our countries round the world as soon as brexit was voted for, and any of this bull that it was against EU rule. The French and Germans break rules the EU set out all the time. What sort of message would it have sent out to the world if we broke rules and signed trade deals with South Korea, Japan, New Zealand etc. Well the world would not have thought hang on this nasty brits are doing wrong, they would have just felt that it was a country wanting to be part of a larger world economy.

You may not believe this or you may believe it and I am doing so at considerable risk now. But my sister works for the foreign office @milo you no my surname and her first name is rebecca followed by our surname and QC she used to work as a solicitor. She is pro brexit and signed up to have with trade talks. She has written reports that have been changed by her superiors because all though she says the are issues with brexit their are also opportunities as well. But the is a large section of the civil service that is subverting the Democratic process because of their own extremist political beliefs. We are fighting a corrupt civil service.

It is more then likely that brexit will be stopped, but not only is it going to see one of the most unlikely comebacks in history for UKIP. The way the civil service has behaved as made enemies of a lot of people who are not going to forget about it. The dishonesty on the remain side is absolutely staggering and that they left wing media seem to be turning a blind eye to the things they are doing is disturbing and leads to worries for the future.

Oh and by the way, be careful with your memes because the EU is outlawing those soon buddy.

 

[milo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1005498292296470528

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

The is no flimflam. the are people in the civil service who have stopped reports that have shown any favourable points about brexit. She has said the is good and bad but being in favour of it when she wrote a report pointing out some of the good her report was changed by people.

She has recently been in Australia Perth on a trade mission and is going to be relocating to Southern Africa, we have had a strained relationship but she has gone up so much in my eyes recently.

What is the greatest concern is what is going on inside government and there are a few who are keeping memos and who are waiting to release what has gone on behind the scenes.

From what I have heard, they are conceding brexit has failed but waiting for the economy in Europe to feel its next great crash and that is when people will make their move and say that we need the full brexit. The liberals and the establishment have won, for now but for the future they are storing up bigger problems.

As the EU shows no signs of ever being able to change I can gladly say we will see the destruction of it in our lifetimes.

From the East Europeans not wanting mass immagration, to the northern countries getting tired with bailing out the southern countries it will not work long term and the next big crash will be the one where it has been decided to push home the issues.

I will be seeing my sister tomorrow, I was ask her what I can say, which I guess will be not to much.

This is the one who was telling me the stuff(corruption) going on at the Mayors office when she worked there under Ken and then Boris for a few years.

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

So the useful idiots are polishing their betrayal narrative already, even before Brexit collapses under its own contradictions.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

So the useful idiots are polishing their betrayal narrative already, even before Brexit collapses under its own contradictions.

Nope.

We won the battle(referendum) but we did not win the war against the ongoing project fear, with rich business owners who want their continued supply of cheap labour or civil servants who have and I have proof though I could not come out and put it here for fear of someone i care about getting sacked(I dont expect anyone to actually believe me, but it is why high up leavers are even more passionate now) the civil servants are deliberately briefing against brexit instead of being political neutral. One imagines so they can go off to Brussels for a few years when they have finished their 30 years at Westminster and get their second gold plated pension.

Leaving the EU is not going to happen this time, but the storing up of information and preparation for the next charge is happening. I knew as soon as Cameron went back on his promise to send the letter to Brussels the day after the referendum should he lose that we would not come out. But when the next economic crisis happens in Europe and with Brussels now bending over backwards for the Italians that wont be to far away. Then the second charge should be the one to get through.

Can someone explain to me why the EU are so insistent we should not do trade deals with other countries even if we are still prepared to meet EU standards for goods we then sell into the EU.

It smacks of a superstate trying to control another country from just going about its business. I also now have more information and inside knowledge then anyone on this site about this. I know the are some successful and intelligent guys on here, but if you really knew how the EU behaved and how they were trying to control every aspect of life in another country, a country that just says it wants to govern itself, even you defeatist self hating loons would think the EU was a very sinister organisation.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

And on the merits of Putin vs EU. When was the last time the EU shot down a passenger plane full of civilians or tried to kill someone with chemical weapons on British street? I think that even trying to suggest equivalence is pathetic.

Well you could say the EU has progressed into Russia territory.

I dont like Putin the guy is a nutter. But if you know your history we have sided with Russia before for our benefit. Hell we side with America when it is for our benefit and they are not a great deal better. But the EU is the one telling us who we can and can not let into the country, the EU is telling us how to run the country even going against a voted for government when they say they dont want foreign criminals here.

We should be finding our own way in the world by the way of the UN and NATO and not worry about silly little EU. The EU is a bigger influence on every day life in this country and I am sure the families of murdered people who were murdered by foreign criminals who we are not allowed to refuse entry to would agree. Some Russian spy and a few British property gangsters being killed by another gangster is just gang war like we see on the streets of London all the time now.

Why is it the EU said we were not allowed to stop foreign criminals coming here and that they had a right to move to the UK? I mean if any of us committed a crime and tried to get into America or Australia we would not be allowed in, GHod America and Australia are such racist countries(actually America might be)

The is no real justification for the EU with most western countries going towards free trade and as for the border with Norther Ireland I would suggest we should just do something similar to the one between Sweden and Norway.

Frankly it is just federalists who wish to create an EU empire that believe in the EU and with organisations like the WTO that has trade covered and for war and peace you have the UN and NATO.

Is the EU needed because actually mainland Europe are always fighting and arguing and over the centuries creating wars, not as cultured as they like to think they are. If the is really a need for an EU it would be about 3000 staff dealing with small internal matters and disputes between countries. But the EU is set up in their own words for ever closer integration and now wants to have an EU army(very sinister) and tax collecting revenue, hardly sensible when the economies that make up the EU are so different.

But if you like go on thinking that anyone that voted out is a racist or stupid and has no real world experience.

 

[the dza]

The is no real justification for the EU with most western countries going towards free trade and as for the border with Norther Ireland I would suggest we should just do something similar to the one between Sweden and Norway.

As I understand it, they still have border checks. What they have would be considered a hard Border for Ireland/N.Ireland.

The Irish border was completely dismissed by the leave campaign pre-referendum. Now it's a problem that needs to be solved, all they do is attack people whose solutions to it have some basis in reality, rather than a tit like Johnson comparing it to the congestion charge.

 

[the dza]

Just looked it up (it's Wiki, so may or may not be 100% reliable).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–Sweden_border#Control

Both countries are members of the Schengen Area, and there are therefore no immigration controls. However, only Sweden is part of the European Union (and crucially the European Union Customs Union) and there are customs checks between the two countries. These checks are performed by the Norwegian Customs and Excise Authorities and the Swedish Customs Service.[3] These checks are sporadic along the Norway–Sweden border. Cars are usually not forced to stop. To combat drug smuggling, the use of CCTV surveillance has recently been increased, with systems using Automatic number plate recognition being rolled-out in 2016 and 2017

____________

So, for customs, what Brexiters are saying rings true there -- they don't usually stop cars, use CCTV and Number Plate recognition. However, they still sporadically stop vehicles, and wiki doesn't say how lorries are treated, so I assume it's the same for them. I don't know if this is equivalent to what happens at the Irish Border currently. But there are still physical checks happening. It doesn't say what happens re. paperwork for goods crossing the border.

More importantly, both Norway and Sweden are in Schengen, so there is free movement of people between them and anyone else who has travelled within the EU. I still don't understand how there can be no border between The Republic and N.Ireland, with no border between N.Ireland and the mainland UK, whilst people from inside the EU can freely go to the Republic. How will they be stopped from moving to the UK without some sort of border check?

*EDIT -- just to add, as Norway is in the EEA, then they will have regulatory alignment with the EU when it comes to their goods, so customs checks would still (I'm guessing) be made easier because of that. If Britain is to go for the so-called Hard Brexit, without regulatory alignment and no Customs Union, then surely the requirements for customs checks increase accordingly?

 

[SpurMeUp]

@Danishfurniturelover why do civil servants support the UK being in the EU? You put it down to biz leaders wanting cheaper wages but that wouldn't affect civil servants.

@milo I agree the EU and Putin are not comparable but to say Putin shot down the passenger plane over Ukraine is not really accurate.

Danish, Brexit seems tribal to you. To me it's just about trading and cooperating with our closest neighbours.

 

[milo]

@milo I agree the EU and Putin are not comparable but to say Putin shot down the passenger plane over Ukraine is not really accurate.

MH17 was shot down by a BUK missile supplied by Russia by rebels supported by Russia.

Worth considering

 

[SpurMeUp]

MH17 was shot down by a BUK missile supplied by Russia by rebels supported by Russia.

Worth considering

Yes exactly. Not Putin pulling the trigger.

And don't get me started on how the US funded the overthrow of the Ukrainian democratically eletected PM (a pro russia puppet), igniting civil war. Or how the EU 'lifted its skirt' to Ukraine to draw it away from Russia when it really had no intention of admitting it into Europe.

Do people use "Putin" interchangeably with Russia? Or do they think he's conrolling everything; as though Putin sits at his desk ordering which spys to bump off today and where to shoot down passenger planes? We wouldn't use the same turn of phrase for May or other leaders.

What's interesting about that graphic is that Russia was quite pro west itself post end of communism. I think history will show that NATO/ US/ EU trying to draw former Soviet republics away from Russia was the start of the current soft cold war with Russia. Russia reacted to what happened in Georgia etc by investing in covert online operations and arms development. They spend a high amount of their GDP on arms. Which is sad, as it should be going into education etc. You might ask, if the west had left the former soviet republics under Russia's sphere of influence to trade with etc would there be the current friction there is now?

 

[r-u-s-x]

Considering that Clegg, Blair and Clarke have been in cahoots with Brussels all along I am not sure what the issue is there. Both are dealing with non British people to effect the outcome of a British election.

I would trust Prutin far more then the crooks in Brussels who just want our money, or why would they be so opposed to us leaving and why would they be trying to stop us doing trade deals with the rest of the world if when we sell to the EU we follow all EU rules. What has it got to do with Brussles if we want to set up a trade deal with Kenya.

Unless despite what it says the EU is a protectionist state with a racist element. Odd that they should be so against Trump and his tariffs yet that is exactly what they want to do to the UK, the height of hypocrisy but sort of what you expect from financial gangsters. I started the thread slagging off Trump I hate his racist, sexist and anti disabled views. But my GHod we need a Trump or Maggie to just get stuff done.

We should have been signing trade deals with our countries round the world as soon as brexit was voted for, and any of this bull that it was against EU rule. The French and Germans break rules the EU set out all the time. What sort of message would it have sent out to the world if we broke rules and signed trade deals with South Korea, Japan, New Zealand etc. Well the world would not have thought hang on this nasty brits are doing wrong, they would have just felt that it was a country wanting to be part of a larger world economy.

You may not believe this or you may believe it and I am doing so at considerable risk now. But my sister works for the foreign office @milo you no my surname and her first name is rebecca followed by our surname and QC she used to work as a solicitor. She is pro brexit and signed up to have with trade talks. She has written reports that have been changed by her superiors because all though she says the are issues with brexit their are also opportunities as well. But the is a large section of the civil service that is subverting the Democratic process because of their own extremist political beliefs. We are fighting a corrupt civil service.

It is more then likely that brexit will be stopped, but not only is it going to see one of the most unlikely comebacks in history for UKIP. The way the civil service has behaved as made enemies of a lot of people who are not going to forget about it. The dishonesty on the remain side is absolutely staggering and that they left wing media seem to be turning a blind eye to the things they are doing is disturbing and leads to worries for the future.

Oh and by the way, be careful with your memes because the EU is outlawing those soon buddy.

Cahoots with the EU? We were a part of the EU can you see the difference?

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

@Danishfurniturelover why do civil servants support the UK being in the EU? You put it down to biz leaders wanting cheaper wages but that wouldn't affect civil servants.

@milo I agree the EU and Putin are not comparable but to say Putin shot down the passenger plane over Ukraine is not really accurate.

Danish, Brexit seems tribal to you. To me it's just about trading and cooperating with our closest neighbours.

Absolutely that is all it should be about and for that we should not be paying anywhere near the figure we pay in each year and the EU should have the intelligence or at least political nous to understand different countries have different ideals.

If the EU had allowed us to control a few more of our own laws and immigration(never been a massive issue for me) then I suspect we would stay in and for a smaller fee each year I would have voted remain. But telling us we have to allow in foreign criminals, we have to give criminals in this country the right to vote, something they fore-fitted when then choose to commit crimes. Then I can not get on board with that.

I can see Juncker and co for what they are, gangsters on a shake down. The EU far from saving Europe with its wanting total control over member states is starting to act in a way that will only cause more anger and resentment in member states, leading to the very issues it was allegedly set up to stop happening again. It is not merely a trading block(which would be fine, better then fine, a great idea) it is a political union.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

PS the civil servants want to stay in the Union so after a career here they go over to Brussels and do a few years there and get a lovely big pension like the serial loser Kinnock.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Just looked it up (it's Wiki, so may or may not be 400% reliable).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–Sweden_border#Control

Both countries are members of the Schengen Area, and there are therefore no immigration controls. However, only Sweden is part of the European Union (and crucially the European Union Customs Union) and there are customs checks between the two countries. These checks are performed by the Norwegian Customs and Excise Authorities and the Swedish Customs Service.[3] These checks are sporadic along the Norway–Sweden border. Cars are usually not forced to stop. To combat drug smuggling, the use of CCTV surveillance has recently been increased, with systems using Automatic number plate recognition being rolled-out in 2016 and 2017

____________

So, for customs, what Brexiters are saying rings true there -- they don't usually stop cars, use CCTV and Number Plate recognition. However, they still sporadically stop vehicles, and wiki doesn't say how lorries are treated, so I assume it's the same for them. I don't know if this is equivalent to what happens at the Irish Border currently. But there are still physical checks happening. It doesn't say what happens re. paperwork for goods crossing the border.

More importantly, both Norway and Sweden are in Schengen, so there is free movement of people between them and anyone else who has travelled within the EU. I still don't understand how there can be no border between The Republic and N.Ireland, with no border between N.Ireland and the mainland UK, whilst people from inside the EU can freely go to the Republic. How will they be stopped from moving to the UK without some sort of border check?

*EDIT -- just to add, as Norway is in the EEA, then they will have regulatory alignment with the EU when it comes to their goods, so customs checks would still (I'm guessing) be made easier because of that. If Britain is to go for the so-called Hard Brexit, without regulatory alignment and no Customs Union, then surely the requirements for customs checks increase accordingly?

Personally if it were me I would have no border between the Republic and Northern Ireland. But just have an increasing amount of sporadic checks coming through ports. The airports should be pretty simple and though I have a love for the Irish(got to put that in case the wife reads this) the fact that when the Irish fought for independence they still wanted the right to come and go to the UK the same as British people is some what of a stain on their whole we want independence thing.

The UK gave a massive bail out to Ireland when they got into financial difficulty in 2008. I can see why we did it as a near neighbour and a close trading partner, it also coincided with Cameron going over their to apologise for the troubles(one of the few things he was right to do) as we have helped their economy and we are their biggest market I am sure the least they could do is to try and make sure terrorists do not make their way to the UK via easy entry into Ireland.

As for the trade thing, well we are all interested in politics in this thread, so what is happening at the moment in the G7 or 8 If Trump gets his way. They are moaning about the Americans putting on tariffs. So why not lets keep these oh so great leaders and all the Europeans leaders to their word and just have a free trade agreement with Ireland and the rest of Europe for that matter.

I dislike Trump, you only have to read the first post in that thread to see that. But in some ways he is right, things do not have to be so complicated all the time. If we could keep the gangsters in the EU to their word then all we really need with Ireland is free trade. The border issue is one of those little odd things that you just turn a blind eye to keep the peace with a valued neighbour.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Cahoots with the EU? We were a part of the EU can you see the difference?

The people voted to leave. Clegg and co went to an unelected foreign body and tried to stop democracy happening and one would imagine did so before the referendum. The EU is a larger threat to this country and the safety of Europe then Russia.

The is only one reason the EU juncker and his cronies are so desperate to stop us leaving and that is money, it has nothing to do with us being part of their project it is a shake down.

And being part of the EU? the thing we are part of is not what we voted into which was just a trading block. The EU has a complete disdain for democracy and every time a country votes in a manner they do not like, Ireland and Holland they bully it into submission until they get an answer they want. We might be a member of the EU but no one voted for this when we got membership, it was a trading block then.

Russia involving itself in our elections? possible. Unelected gangster in Brussels, certainly.

 

[r-u-s-x]

They are complaining about contact with Russia pre vote that's the issue.

During the vote did you know EU were working for Remain? Did you know Russia were actively working covertly for exit?

Can you see the difference?

 

[Rorschach]

Personally if it were me I would have no border between the Republic and Northern Ireland. But just have an increasing amount of sporadic checks coming through ports. The airports should be pretty simple and though I have a love for the Irish(got to put that in case the wife reads this) the fact that when the Irish fought for independence they still wanted the right to come and go to the UK the same as British people is some what of a stain on their whole we want independence thing.

The UK gave a massive bail out to Ireland when they got into financial difficulty in 2008. I can see why we did it as a near neighbour and a close trading partner, it also coincided with Cameron going over their to apologise for the troubles(one of the few things he was right to do) as we have helped their economy and we are their biggest market I am sure the least they could do is to try and make sure terrorists do not make their way to the UK via easy entry into Ireland.

There will be no border between the north and the south. Of all the brick going on with brexit that is the one thing that is definite. The good Friday agreement would be void if there were a hard border and all the players in this discussion know this and none will jeopardise the agreement. Any rhetoric to the contrary is nothing more than hot air. That is the starting point from which a solution must be devised.

So if there is no physical border then stuff and people can travel north and south without any impediment. So where is the customs line, and where are the border checks for nationality? There is only one practical solution as far as i can see and that is that the checks are at the ports and airports going in and out of the island. Northern Ireland is a special case then as a result, as it is now anyway (i.e dual nationality) and will be treated differently than the rest of the UK. Having the border at the Irish Sea seems the only workable solution except for one thing. The DUP are king makers and Ulster says no.

So any solution to the NI issue must involve removing the DUP from this position of power. Their apprehension is well founded though. Moving the border to the Irish seas is another step towards reunification of Ireland and they know it. The sum of all their fears really, but I would suggest it is something that is inevitable in the next 10 years or so anyway, IMO.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Do Ireland want reunification though not sure they want it in reality even if they say they do in public.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

They are complaining about contact with Russia pre vote that's the issue.

During the vote did you know EU were working for Remain? Did you know Russia were actively working covertly for exit?

Can you see the difference?

The would be no difference, it would be outside influence trying to engineer a result they wanted in a UK referendum.