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Politics, politics, politics

SpurMeUp said:
David Davis is the victor of the hour, it seems, writes BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg.

The Brexit secretary threatened to quit the government if the prime minister refused to change her proposal to fix the customs conundrum - after he demanded a time limit on the "backstop", the insurance policy for avoiding a hard Irish border if trade talks break down.

There is a date in the document that is now on its way to Brussels.

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From start to now its been a shambles. May managing to just about react to all the problems and kick them down the road at each turn. When will all the issues that have stickey plasters covering them up fall apart?
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I don't think that Davies is the victor in this. He's signed up to a meaningless fudge that will be rejected by the EU.

The government signed up to agreeing an unlimited backstop in December and they will end up doing that again.

I don't know what the Brexiters are worried about, if they are so confident in their technical solution, the backstop won't be needed.
 
milo said:
I don't think that Davies is the victor in this. He's signed up to a meaningless fudge that will be rejected by the EU.

The government signed up to agreeing an unlimited backstop in December and they will end up doing that again.

I don't know what the Brexiters are worried about, if they are so confident in their technical solution, the backstop won't be needed.
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But we all know (deep down!) that Brexit is the opposite of a 'solution'. The whole thing is a web of problems. Whether the Irish boarder issue, ensuring we have the labour we need in the UK, ensuring we have free trade with the EU, negotiating trade agreedment with 3rd countries who are much larger than the UK, using regulatory allignment that we no longer have a say in, particpation in the saterlite security programme etc.

The issue isn't May or incompetence, it is Brexit itself. What a waste of time. People are bord with it aren't they? I am agast that its still piddling along, as though it will happen, and I am worried a soft compromised Brexit could happen via Labour or the Tories...serious relegation fears...
 
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SpurMeUp said:
But we all know that Brexit is the opposite of a 'solution'. The whole thing is a web of problems. Whether the Irish boarder issue, ensuring we have the labour we need in the UK, ensuring we have free trade, negotiating trade agreedment with 3rd countries who are much larger than the UK, using regulatory allignment that we no longer have a say in.

The issue ins't May or incompetence, its Brexit itself. What a waste of time. People are bord with it, arn't they? I am agast that its still piddeling along, like it will happen, and I have serious relegation fears!
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I largely agree but she has handled a bad situation really badly.

The only way that I think that it could have been delivered was to do the groundwork early and get an agreed position and then try to convince the EU to do it through treaty rather than A50. It would've taken at least a decade but it's going to drag on longer than that anyway.

As it stands, I think that we are headed to indefinite transition.
 
milo said:
I largely agree but she has handled a bad situation really badly.

The only way that I think that it could have been delivered was to do the groundwork early and get an agreed position and then try to convince the EU to do it through treaty rather than A50. It would've taken at least a decade but it's going to drag on longer than that anyway.

As it stands, I think that we are headed to indefinite transition.
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A 10 year treaty process would not have cut it for anyone though. Its academic but I acutally think May has done a decent job perpetuating an impossible situation. Just when crisis point is reached, she somehow manages to avert collapse and stagger on. The interesting question is when will it breakdown? When will all the stickey plasters peel off and what will we be left with?

May out of a job, and a divided Tory party? A Labour party who under a more centrist leader should walk into power who would deliver a Norway-like Brexit?

The sooner our leaders can get a revote booked in the better. We the people need to vote on the (shabmles) that they will serve up, and the sooner its done the better. i think it is inevitable. It is the only way politicians can themselves progress on this impossible issue.
 
SpurMeUp said:
A 10 year treaty process would not have cut it for anyone though. Its academic but I acutally think May has done a decent job perpetuating an impossible situation. Just when crisis point is reached, she somehow manages to avert collapse and stagger on. The interesting question is when will it breakdown? When will all the stickey plasters peel off and what will we be left with?

May out of a job, and a divided Tory party? A Labour party who under a more centrist leader should walk into power who would deliver a Norway-like Brexit?

The sooner our leaders can get a revote booked in the better. We the people need to vote on the (shabmles) that they will serve up, and the sooner its done the better. i think it is inevitable. It is the only way politicians can themselves progress on this impossible issue.
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She's done a good job of keeping them together one day to the next by kicking all of the difficult questions down the road. She is about to run out of road.

The only solution to the Ireland issue is to keep us in the customs union, single market and VAT area. We'll probably get away with calling it something different.

I agree that a ten year process would have been a difficult sell but I don't think they would've needed to make that clear immediately. I think that the government could have sold a considered and managed process to the country if they had toned down the rhetoric.
 
True true. I guess May’s biggest flaw is her lack of leadership. But then where do you lead people to when it’s such a forlorn thing? Politicians being power hungry democrats won’t all stand up and tell it like it is either. Instead they keep the sham going. I find that the worst bit. They’ll sell their country down the river to keep themselves in a job.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
True true. I guess May’s biggest flaw is her lack of leadership. But then where do you lead people to when it’s such a forlorn thing? Politicians being power hungry democrats won’t all stand up and tell it like it is either. Instead they keep the sham going. I find that the worst bit. They’ll sell their country down the river to keep themselves in a job.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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I think that managing this lot would be impossible. There is very little talent in the Cabinet, there is even less on the back benches to replace them, she
Is is forced into having some really poor ministers just because they are prominent Brexit supporters and screwing up the election means she's propped up by a bunch of religious fundamentalist bigots. On top of that there is no majority in parliament for any Brexit outcome.

What a fudging mess. We've barely done any negotiation with Europe, we've spent two years of the Conservative party negotiating with itself and still can't reach agreement. Cabinet haven't even discussed immigration yet, two years and they do not know what they want out of this.
 
Yep. The political sphere is crying out for leadership, conviction and clarity- a fresh vision. If only Corbyn wasn’t such a throwback. He won’t be able to shake off his old associations.

Problem is politics isn’t attractive to most sane people now. Why would able people earn less while putting themselves under the microscope to be vilified by the media?

One day I’ll write a manifesto [emoji23]Not for me to implement. Sadly it won’t be as radical as I once thought. Studying in Havana in my youth I had perspective on our political and economic system, and ideas on how to develop it. As you get older and also worked with MPs and ministries you taper your ire. I still believe there is a massive amount that could be developed in the way government is structured and someone needs to shine a light in it.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
Yep. The political sphere is crying out for leadership, conviction and clarity- a fresh vision. If only Corbyn wasn’t such a throwback. He won’t be able to shake off his old associations.

Problem is politics isn’t attractive to most sane people now. Why would able people earn less while putting themselves under the microscope to be vilified by the media?

One day I’ll write a manifesto [emoji23]Not for me to implement. Sadly it won’t be as radical as I once thought. Studying in Havana in my youth I had perspective on our political and economic system, and ideas on how to develop it. As you get older and also worked with MPs and ministries you taper your ire. I still believe there is a massive amount that could be developed in the way government is structured and someone needs to shine a light in it.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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I think that everyone is waiting for the current lot to fudge it up. If you're a Tory with leadership ambitions, why step in now? You'd be finished within a couple of years.

Same for Labour. Do you really want to clear up this message and take the blame for it?
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1005498543740727301

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