You know what I would buy into gutterboys Brexit... But it's never going to be like that... What your talking about is not Brexit...your talking about revolution.
A Tory Brexit will be the complete opposite of what you have described in this thread.
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
You know what I would buy into gutterboys Brexit... But it's never going to be like that... What your talking about is not Brexit...your talking about revolution.
A Tory Brexit will be the complete opposite of what you have described in this thread.
There's nothing wrong with tax avoidance - everyone does it.
The cost of living is only so high because the government have been inflating it with handouts for so long. They shouldn't be able to inflate the cost artificially and then dump the costs on the private sector.
I don't think there's any over-inflated sense of worth among business leaders - at least not that I've seen.
monkeybarry
Ian Walker
I actually meant to type tax evasion.
But you make an interesting contradiction.
It's fine to avoid paying tax but it's not fine for government then to seek some back from the private sector after profiteering caused a cost issue?
We all know in capitalism there is only inflation - the private sector dictates wage and goods prices, not government. In your world where tax avoidance is apparently acceptable, you can't have both positions without hypocrisy. It's about time capitalism started acted responsibly. That starts with paying its share to pay for society, not avoiding it. (and I would add putting pressure on others to stop avoidance and evasion).
I agree. But Brexit has very little to do with business leaders. It's political ambitions and voter tubthumping than will create much of the steer - and and we know how much of a Union Jack waving culture exists there.
There's a direct link between the amount of evasion in a society and the levels of taxation. If the government tries to take half of what I earn, I will do everything I can to bring that down to a level that isn't disgusting.
I treat my taxes in a legal manner but I can see the temptation to not do so when the tax rate is at such an insulting level.
That's not a contradiction. Our tax system is set up so that you are legally required to pay what HMRC can, in a court of law, force you to pay. Anything less, by definition, is within the rules of our system.
If the government keeps topping up people's wages with my taxes then they're breaking the market that regulates prices. The private sector would control wages and prices perfectly if the government would take it's thumb off the scale.
Even if Brexit turns out to be a bad thing for the country (if it does then it will be because of implementation, not that it was fundamentally wrong), businesses will adapt. Many of us will be better off as long as the government is able to keep the flow of cheap labour going. For many businesses (somewhere north of 85% IIRC) EU regulations apply to and constrict them, yet they don't sell to EU countries. We sell to the EU, but any cost increases (or even no sales at all) will be more than balanced with cheaper imports and reduced regulations (we've already been lobbying DEFRA who have agreed that the EU rules applying to us are not welcome and have given us a derogation from time to time for larger jobs).
Bollox - historically low inflation http://www.inflation.eu/inflation-r...ic-inflation/cpi-inflation-great-britain.aspx
If you take a very small snapshot inflation is low, but from 2006-2012 it was high and is going that way again.
Wage inflation is real and is damaging jobs. I know that too well as someone who the government has forced to move a number of jobs overseas and automate out others. I'm sure I'm not alone in that and I'm one of the ones in a position to be able to finance that - many businesses aren't and will fold under the increased cost.
monkeybarry
Ian Walker
With wage inflation lower than price inflation, where do you see that going?
That depends on where you measure wage inflation.
Most white collar workers I know are seeing fairly stagnant wages, but those on minimum wage (the foundation of our manufacturing sector) are seeing huge increases - 36% over the last 10 years.
did you look at the graph? even the peak in 2008 is still only slightly above normal. Wage inflation is real because before the tories came in to power we were subsidising the work force with tax credits, the wages you were paying were not enough to live on, you were effectively taking handouts. I am all for the state taking taxes from the well off and paying those that need it and propping up some businesses to keep people employed, are you?
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
It could be the spark though. Like The 95 Theses (basically sticking a poster on a church door) sparked the Reformation.
The conditions are very similar - a continent wide economic oppression by a self-serving ideologically-driven elite and bureaucracy. It will be bigger than Britain though - white collar automisation and the freedom from work is going to be a revolution for the whole world - it's just about how we deal with it (to advance civilisation or destroy it).
The Tories will kill off the old system, but they won't be in charge to inherit the new power (i.e. the 2022 election)
What's "normal"? The target is 2% - anything above that is too high.
The answer to the perception (and it is just that) that wages are too low is not to break the market by forcing the bottom up. What do you think would have happened to prices over time if people couldn't afford to buy goods?
monkeybarry
Ian Walker
It's a lovely thought but simply not realistic.
If this were France, maybe.
But the UK are surfs by nature, have been throughout history and I can see no indication that will change.
And any Gov knows if they give just enough for survival and the odd treat, but not enough to create mass individual power, then they can stay in charge.
monkeybarry
Ian Walker
Ok, I think it's smart to take a split view. And of course they still come together within one economy and society.
So where do you see white collar wage stagnation and low end service provider stagnation but manufacturing wage inflation above/in line with price inflation going? What is the result across that spectrum?
Normal is historical levels.
Prices of what? it depends doesn't it. What do you think would happen to people over time if they couldn't afford to buy food?
The result I'm seeing is a huge disincentive to train, to take on more education, to work hard, etc.
People who are early on in their white collar careers are seeing people with no education, no training, no valuable skills able to earn a significant proportion of their wages for a job that might be physically demanding but is incredibly easy in comparison to theirs. Businesses that have a mix of blue and white collar staff are not going to be able to give the normal 3% pay rises to their white collar staff because their profits have been wiped by the 36% increase they've had to shell out.
Prices are being suppressed to some extent because of the low increases for higher earners, so what we'll end up with is a system where the reward for education and attainment reduces to zero.
The people trying to sell food will reduce their prices as they have to sell food to earn. Those who can't afford food will buy food. They'll probably then eat the food and I'd imagine go and buy more.
Those selling the food can't sell the food below cost, they either go out of business or keep prices at cost. people starve I imagine.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/definition/cost-push-inflation
Why would it be below cost? A large part of the cost of any good/service is the labour that goes into it. If you don't artificially inflate labour costs, you don't artificially inflate prices (or in this scenario, more likely reduce profit to 0).
Is your argument something along the lines of "We should do it because they do"? I don't find that very convincing.