Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Robspur12]

I read this quote the other day that struck me as really capturing the Zeitgeist of the moment.

The search for truth is an essential element of democracy … When questions about what is true lose their appeal, and a pragmatism takes hold that is content with what appears useful or effective, then democratic life is weakened … Indifference to the truth leads, slowly but surely, to a descent into totalitarianism. As the philosopher Hannah Arendt wrote, the ideal subjects of such regimes are not so much those who are ideologically convinced, but rather ‘people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (ie, the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (ie, the standards of thought) no longer exist’.”

The quote comes from Pope Leo. I understand that the Catholic Church like many big institutions has a lot to atone for. But I thought that is a brilliant observation on the current plight of Western society.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I read this quote the other day that struck me as really capturing the Zeitgeist of the moment.

The search for truth is an essential element of democracy … When questions about what is true lose their appeal, and a pragmatism takes hold that is content with what appears useful or effective, then democratic life is weakened … Indifference to the truth leads, slowly but surely, to a descent into totalitarianism. As the philosopher Hannah Arendt wrote, the ideal subjects of such regimes are not so much those who are ideologically convinced, but rather ‘people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (ie, the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (ie, the standards of thought) no longer exist’.”

The quote comes from Pope Leo. I understand that the Catholic Church like many big institutions has a lot to atone for. But I thought that is a brilliant observation on the current plight of Western society.

So so correct

 

[LutonSpurs]

Democracy pushing us towards a more honest society comes back to who the people elect. People vote for liars.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I read this quote the other day that struck me as really capturing the Zeitgeist of the moment.

The search for truth is an essential element of democracy … When questions about what is true lose their appeal, and a pragmatism takes hold that is content with what appears useful or effective, then democratic life is weakened … Indifference to the truth leads, slowly but surely, to a descent into totalitarianism. As the philosopher Hannah Arendt wrote, the ideal subjects of such regimes are not so much those who are ideologically convinced, but rather ‘people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (ie, the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (ie, the standards of thought) no longer exist’.”

The quote comes from Pope Leo. I understand that the Catholic Church like many big institutions has a lot to atone for. But I thought that is a brilliant observation on the current plight of Western society.

I referenced this in the AI thread.

It's an extract from the Popes latest encyclical letter. It's a long read but an important document on 'the future', I wouldn't have expected the Pope to be the one that nailed it.

 

[LutonSpurs]

I like this pope.

 

[Robspur12]

I like this pope.

I'm careful not to conflate politics and religion. And I also understand that, out of respect to the many (including on here) who have suffered trauma at hands of individuals within the Catholic Church, not to go overboard praising leaders within it. But Leo XIV is showing that progressive leadership is possible in the times we are living and I think he is the right guy for this moment. He is one of those that can speak truth to power.

 

[LutonSpurs]

I'm careful not to conflate politics and religion. And I also understand that, out of respect to the many (including on here) who have suffered trauma at hands of individuals within the Catholic Church, not to go overboard praising leaders within it. But Leo XIV is showing that progressive leadership is possible in the times we are living and I think he is the right guy for this moment. He is one of those that can speak truth to power.

My view is not to forgive them. Mullahs. Priests. Epstein types. Groomers.All the various men in power who abused or stayed silent (complicit).

If there is contrition coupled with genuine change then you have to give credit for those things.

 

[robp135]

Not that @LutonSpurs can’t speak for himself, but that’s out of order @robp135

• The Jay Report recorded that several council staff described being nervous about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist, and some recalled managers directing them not to do so.
• The Crowther Report found a broader institutional concern about accusations of racism. It concluded that concern about being seen as racist permeated thinking within parts of the police service and contributed to reluctance in addressing some aspects of the offending.
• The Manchester/Operation Augusta review found that fears regarding race relations and sensitive community issues appeared to have influenced senior police thinking.
• The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse heard evidence that fears of being branded racist continued to hinder responses and data collection.
• The recent Louise Casey audit concluded that authorities had "shied away" from ethnicity and that fears of racism contributed to failures to properly record and analyse offender ethnicity.

Now tell me why someone would say this? And then talk about lies.

Lies. An unnamed social worker said they were told to stay away. Why do you repeat verbatim lies from the far right. It's worth verifying stuff.

 

[robp135]

I read this quote the other day that struck me as really capturing the Zeitgeist of the moment.

The search for truth is an essential element of democracy … When questions about what is true lose their appeal, and a pragmatism takes hold that is content with what appears useful or effective, then democratic life is weakened … Indifference to the truth leads, slowly but surely, to a descent into totalitarianism. As the philosopher Hannah Arendt wrote, the ideal subjects of such regimes are not so much those who are ideologically convinced, but rather ‘people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (ie, the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (ie, the standards of thought) no longer exist’.”

The quote comes from Pope Leo. I understand that the Catholic Church like many big institutions has a lot to atone for. But I thought that is a brilliant observation on the current plight of Western society.

It’s going to be interesting to see if people start to refuse to use AI in the workplace and get involved in some type of lawsuit.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

• The Jay Report recorded that several council staff described being nervous about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist, and some recalled managers directing them not to do so.
• The Crowther Report found a broader institutional concern about accusations of racism. It concluded that concern about being seen as racist permeated thinking within parts of the police service and contributed to reluctance in addressing some aspects of the offending.
• The Manchester/Operation Augusta review found that fears regarding race relations and sensitive community issues appeared to have influenced senior police thinking.
• The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse heard evidence that fears of being branded racist continued to hinder responses and data collection.
• The recent Louise Casey audit concluded that authorities had "shied away" from ethnicity and that fears of racism contributed to failures to properly record and analyse offender ethnicity.

Now tell me why someone would say this? And then talk about lies.

In fairness that wasn't the basis of your original point, your comment about Luton jumping to the defence makes the suggestion he is somehow doing so because of his ethnicity, thats how it reads...........rightly or wrongly.

 

[LutonSpurs]

• The Jay Report recorded that several council staff described being nervous about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist, and some recalled managers directing them not to do so.
• The Crowther Report found a broader institutional concern about accusations of racism. It concluded that concern about being seen as racist permeated thinking within parts of the police service and contributed to reluctance in addressing some aspects of the offending.
• The Manchester/Operation Augusta review found that fears regarding race relations and sensitive community issues appeared to have influenced senior police thinking.
• The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse heard evidence that fears of being branded racist continued to hinder responses and data collection.
• The recent Louise Casey audit concluded that authorities had "shied away" from ethnicity and that fears of racism contributed to failures to properly record and analyse offender ethnicity.

Now tell me why someone would say this? And then talk about lies.

You have not replied to my response to your racist post you weasel little fukwit

 

[LutonSpurs]

This type of training has been in place for decades now it just got ramped up post George Floyd. So it’s not exclusively related to that.

The grooming gangs would be the glaring example. Many of the victims beleive they were not taken seriously by police. Many officers involved were told to stay away due to fears unrest in the Muslim community. The guy in Nottingham that killed two students was not sectioned due to an over-representation of young black men in detention.

You speculated that they made their assumption based on the fact they might well have encountered drunks racially abusing people before. Would that not be an example of unconscious bias or racial profiling?

So above @robp135 says as a fact "many officers involved were told to stay away due to fears unrest in the Muslim community"

• The Jay Report recorded that several council staff described being nervous about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist, and some recalled managers directing them not to do so.
• The Crowther Report found a broader institutional concern about accusations of racism. It concluded that concern about being seen as racist permeated thinking within parts of the police service and contributed to reluctance in addressing some aspects of the offending.
• The Manchester/Operation Augusta review found that fears regarding race relations and sensitive community issues appeared to have influenced senior police thinking.
• The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse heard evidence that fears of being branded racist continued to hinder responses and data collection.
• The recent Louise Casey audit concluded that authorities had "shied away" from ethnicity and that fears of racism contributed to failures to properly record and analyse offender ethnicity.

Now tell me why someone would say this? And then talk about lies.

There is not one thing corroborating your lie. How are you this bad at debating? Dude, when you type a lie, people can see it and verify it.

And yes you lied again. This wasn't a gotcha.

 

[robp135]

In fairness that wasn't the basis of your original point, your comment about Luton jumping to the defence makes the suggestion he is somehow doing so because of his ethnicity, thats how it reads...........rightly or wrongly.

Did the race/religion play a part in the Islamic grooming gangs not being held accountable sooner?

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Did the race/religion play a part in the Islamic grooming gangs not being held accountable sooner?

That has nothing to do with the point made, did you make the quip about Luton because of his ethnicity or you prefer to avoid owning up to it?

 

[robp135]

So above @robp135 says as a fact "many officers involved were told to stay away due to fears unrest in the Muslim community"


There is not one thing corroborating your lie. How are you this bad at debating? Dude, when you type a lie, people can see it and verify it.

And yes you lied again. This wasn't a gotcha.

Yes, there is documented evidence that concerns about community tensions—including tensions involving Muslim communities—were raised by some officials during the years when grooming-gang cases were being mishandled.

The strongest recent evidence comes from the 2025 audit by Louise Casey. According to the audit, authorities in multiple places avoided discussing the ethnicity of offenders "for fear of appearing racist, raising community tensions or causing community cohesion problems." The report found examples of organizations avoiding the issue altogether for those reasons. and reviews into places such as , Rochdale, and other areas recorded concerns from multiple professionals and institutions. These included social workers, police officers, local authority officials, and managers. Different reports have described fears of:

• Being accused of racism.
• Damaging community relations.
• Increasing tensions between ethnic or religious groups.
• Being seen as targeting Pakistani or Muslim communities unfairly.

 

[robp135]

That has nothing to do with the point made, did you make the quip about Luton because of his ethnicity or you prefer to avoid owning up to it?

The quip is about his insistence on defending pedofiles. Only he can explain why he does it.

Now can you answer my question?

 

[LutonSpurs]

The quip is about his insistence on defending pedofiles. Only he can explain why he does it.

That is a horrific accusation.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Yes, there is documented evidence that concerns about community tensions—including tensions involving Muslim communities—were raised by some officials during the years when grooming-gang cases were being mishandled.

The strongest recent evidence comes from the 2025 audit by Louise Casey. According to the audit, authorities in multiple places avoided discussing the ethnicity of offenders "for fear of appearing racist, raising community tensions or causing community cohesion problems." The report found examples of organizations avoiding the issue altogether for those reasons. and reviews into places such as , Rochdale, and other areas recorded concerns from multiple professionals and institutions. These included social workers, police officers, local authority officials, and managers. Different reports have described fears of:

• Being accused of racism.
• Damaging community relations.
• Increasing tensions between ethnic or religious groups.
• Being seen as targeting Pakistani or Muslim communities unfairly.

So what you said wasn't true. You are now saying something else. Are you genuinely dim? Or have I rattled you to a point that you've thrown even arbitrary research in the bin?

 

[robp135]

So what you said wasn't true. You are now saying something else. Are you genuinely dim? Or have I rattled you to a point that you've thrown even arbitrary research in the bin?

The only one telling lies is you.

 

[robp135]

That is a horrific accusation.

Did the race/religion play a part in the Islamic grooming gangs not being held accountable sooner?