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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Rorschach said:
Was it not a private company rebranded as British steel? Why would it get bailed out of that was the case ( I could be wrong on this).
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You probably make a fair point, on my part I just read it and wanted to see if that was the case purely out of interest.

I imagine the Steel industry is a complex one what with China steel market and the EU emissions tax etc.

Maybe in long term not worth bailing out!!
 
Grays_1890 said:
You probably make a fair point, on my part I just read it and wanted to see if that was the case purely out of interest.

I imagine the Steel industry is a complex one what with China steel market and the EU emissions tax etc.

Maybe in long term not worth bailing out!!
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The bits I have read point to the EU carbon tax exemption being removed meant a huge bill, but the writing was on the wall for this company for a while. Cheap Chinese steel really seems to have struck the hardest blow, and that coupled with Brexit uncertainty (no long term contracts) were other major factors.
 
the dza said:
I think the DUP have already rejected a Canada-style arrangement (they did so after Chequers).
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There is a misconception that Canada is an appropaite blue print. That is the pattern with Brisket, whatever has not been fully explored or understood is the answer. Canada (does not deal with services), No Deal (overnight job losses) etc. While the detail is not understood they are the answer. Pre-vote Norway was the answer. Like Breixt itself, these 'answers' are really a myth.
 
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Grays_1890 said:
So is it true EU ruling meant that the UK Government couldn't bail out British Steel
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No. Just look at France. It has bailed out car firms, infranstructure companies...and it maintained massive stakes in Orange, Renault etc If the government wanted to bail out British Steel it could have easily found a means. It didn't want to.
 
the dza said:
This is a fair point. I voted remain and on balance, I would again if it comes to that. But if we do stay in the EU, I'd like to see our government push for reform in this area. I don't think there has been any UK goverment wanting to change the rules re. State Aid within the EU; Blair and subsequent Tory governments have probably been quite happy with such intervention being restricted whilst able to blame someone else for it. I'm pretty certain a Corbyn-led Labour government would seek reform in this area, although whether they'd get it is another matter.
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What would a government do with a loss making Steel company? It would litterally cost tax payers. Fair enough bailing out a company that has a blip or tempory hard times that will right itself. Anyone heard of Nat West or Lloyds? Bailed out by our government less than a decade ago without any problem. RBS, that owned Nat West was almost completely state owned. So @Grays_1890 it's not a viable arguement for Brexit really.
 
Rorschach said:
The bits I have read point to the EU carbon tax exemption being removed meant a huge bill, but the writing was on the wall for this company for a while. Cheap Chinese steel really seems to have struck the hardest blow, and that coupled with Brexit uncertainty (no long term contracts) were other major factors.
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I have not looked into it, but what could the UK do to combat dumping of cheap steel into our domestic market? If only there was some kind of trade allience we could form with our allies to stand up to China and impose tariffs on their steel.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I have not looked into it, but what could the UK do to combat dumping of cheap steel into our domestic market? If only there was some kind of trade allience we could form with our allies to stand up to China and impose tariffs on them...
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Not only that... but the but EU tried to stop China dumping cheap steel on Europe but our great savour Mr Farage amongst others voted against the proposal to do so, and it didn't pass.
 
Have to hand it to Newsnight, they gave a through analysis of May's reign.

Her cataclysmic phrase: "no deal better than a bad deal" seemed smart at the time, but will it come back to haunt the UK?
 
SpurMeUp said:
I have not looked into it, but what could the UK do to combat dumping of cheap steel into our domestic market? If only there was some kind of trade allience we could form with our allies to stand up to China and impose tariffs on their steel.
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Put our own tariffs on imports and make everything we need at Sclamhorpe. At least having the option to do that is part of the whole hunger for sovereignty.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Put our own tariffs on imports and make everything we need at Sclamhorpe. At least having the option to do that is part of the whole hunger for sovereignty.
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Obviously, that's not an option if we want to sell stuff back to the most populace country in the world. China and its 1.4 billion people would shut its doors to UK trade quicker than you could say Chopsticks. Collectively with 27 other prosperous nations, tariffs on China can be implemented without damning retaliation.
 
SpurMeUp said:
No. Just look at France. It has bailed out car firms, infranstructure companies...and it maintained massive stakes in Orange, Renault etc If the government wanted to bail out British Steel it could have easily found a means. It didn't want to.
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That's fair, was just interested as I read today about it and wanted views.

Is it true that EU stops it in the purest form of bailout though? Like when France bail out its in form of R&D investment rather than a flat bailout?
 
SpurMeUp said:
Obviously, that's not an option if we want to sell stuff back to the most populace country in the world. China and its 1.4 billion people would shut its doors to UK trade quicker than you could say Chopsticks. Collectively with 27 other prosperous nations, tariffs on China can be implemented without damning retaliation.
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The future is fair trade, not free trade
 
Grays_1890 said:
That's fair, was just interested as I read today about it and wanted views.

Is it true that EU stops it in the purest form of bailout though? Like when France bail out its in form of R&D investment rather than a flat bailout?
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State aid is in principle anti-competitive. Just look at Chinese steel. China can't shut down massive factories so it subsidises steel and then dumps it accross the world. Even with 70% tariffs on imports into the EU it can still sell it below what we can produce it for. The UK has been a driver in free market economics and removing state aid, and in principle it is correct. However, that does not stop some state ownership. As mentioned RBS, one of the worlds largest banks was almost wholly owned by us the people. Almost all EU nations own and run utility comapnies - electricity, trains etc. It's only us that privitise them (then outsource them to French and Germany state owned providers!).
 
DTA said:
Not only that... but the but EU tried to stop China dumping cheap steel on Europe but our great savour Mr Farage amongst others voted against the proposal to do so, and it didn't pass.
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There's a slight deception here, actually it was voted against because the net effect on job losses would be greater because of the wider reliance in the UK economy on Chinese steel.
 
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