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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Gutter Boy said:
The future is fair trade, not free trade
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My biggest customer is a company that is built on fair trade principles, ethical sourcing etc and is a leading member of all the associations, says all the correct things and for generations has been doing them.
That is fast going out the door and they are finding ways around it to keep them 'fair'. It's all about £s. Almost everything they source now is from China, even what we manufacture for them, the raw materials need to be sourced from their supplier in China because its cheap. Its not green and I doubt its staff are well treated, few others of our customers will touch it.
Its very easy for businesses to look like fair trade, I suspect they seldom are.
 
glasgowspur said:
My biggest customer is a company that is built on fair trade principles, ethical sourcing etc and is a leading member of all the associations, says all the correct things and for generations has been doing them.
That is fast going out the door and they are finding ways around it to keep them 'fair'. It's all about £s. Almost everything they source now is from China, even what we manufacture for them, the raw materials need to be sourced from their supplier in China because its cheap. Its not green and I doubt its staff are well treated, few others of our customers will touch it.
Its very easy for businesses to look like fair trade, I suspect they seldom are.
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Fair trade is like CSR. It gets put into the annual accounts and share listings as it makes the company more valuable. A vanishingly small number of people able to act on such wishes would ever want to do so.

I've seen very little correlation between the kind of people who succeed in business and the kind of people who care about fair trade (I mean properly care, not just choosing between two fairly similar cofefve beans at Waitrose).
 
I don't mean fair trade specifically in Oxfam supplier sense. I mean more general, as in regulatory control and protectionism - promotion of indigenous goods, protection of local industry and employment, minimum pricing, employment and environmental protections etc.

Basically trade that benefits workers and small scale operations, in contrast to free trade only benefiting big business
 
P.D. said:
There's a slight deception here, actually it was voted against because the net effect on job losses would be greater because of the wider reliance in the UK economy on Chinese steel.
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If that's true then I apologize, my intention is not to misinform on either side of the debate.

Nigel still can't be trusted though.
 
Leaks coming through from counts now suggesting that things have gone incredibly well for the LDs. Coasting to victory in London which suggests comfortably beating Labour nationwide.
 
So if Brexit Party storms the elections are we to believe the mood still might be Brexit? Despite the people's party saying otherwise?
 
the dza said:
If the election goes like the polling, then it'll show the mood pretty unchanged since the first referendum, with ardent leavers going to Brexit Party, ardent remainers going Lib Dem or Green, and people in the middle going to Tory or Labour.
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It’s not going like the polling. There’s far less middle.
 
Grays_1890 said:
So if Brexit Party storms the elections are we to believe the mood still might be Brexit? Despite the people's party saying otherwise?
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What I do think we will see is actually a reason to stay - and I'm interested to hear the view of people like yourself if this happens:

I think we are about to see a significant number of opposition and/or finge (IE Brexit Party) parties making up the MEPs.
Leaving a big gap in focus and policy Vs their domestic politics.
If the brexit party are suddenly very powerful in the European parliament and have a significant number of allies, doesn't this suddenly generate the power to change the EU that many brexiteers bemoaned we didn't have?
And with opposing domestic Political governance it also ensuring seperation of MP & MEPs, thus creating a platform for debate to influence the EU whilst also retaining domestic sovereignty.
 
monkeybarry said:
What I do think we will see is actually a reason to stay - and I'm interested to hear the view of people like yourself if this happens:

I think we are about to see a significant number of opposition and/or finge (IE Brexit Party) parties making up the MEPs.
Leaving a big gap in focus and policy Vs their domestic politics.
If the brexit party are suddenly very powerful in the European parliament and have a significant number of allies, doesn't this suddenly generate the power to change the EU that many brexiteers bemoaned we didn't have?
And with opposing domestic Political governance it also ensuring seperation of MP & MEPs, thus creating a platform for debate to influence the EU whilst also retaining domestic sovereignty.
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I'd be very happy with that situation if UK MEPs had 51% or more of the EU voting rights.
 
the dza said:
A split between no-deal and remain then. Unless it's way in favour of remain (parties) over no-deal (party), it doesn't really make a case for a 2nd referendum imo.
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In many ways the thing has dragged on so long and with the manner it's played out it wouldn't surprise me that the people are entrenched in their choice and any indicative vote would be fairly even again.

The problem we have is the new leadership candidates are mainly spouting nonsense that hasn't been thought through or is just plain wishful thinking. The only paths we can take that cuts the EU out of the discussion are 1 stay in or 2 no deal. The third path is to re-negotiate BUT no amount of posturing, new approach, fresh faces united front etc is gonna make one iota of difference to the EU. It's all been done before, all the avenues have been travelled...it all just ends up in the same place.

The only point of leverage we have, the only ace card, is to demand whatever we want with the kicker being, we walkaway with no deal if we don't like the outcome. The trouble with this is the house is very unlikely to unite behind this approach (or a push to remain either for that matter) in the first place. (In fact hasn't Corbyn already said he'll immediately call a vote of no confidence in any no deal candidate). And so we're left where we were. Going absolutely nowhere. A GE will end in a minority /coalition Government that will solve nothing and certainly not by October.
 
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Gilzeantoscore said:
WTF? You post some truly bizarre stuff on here, but this one is RIGHT up there.
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I post bizarre stuff? youre the nutter that hounds anything written that doesnt blow sunshine up st Corbyn ass and seem to have taken a particular liking to chasing down anything I say (and generally missing the point)




Gutter Boy said:
Isn't juncker's comments an example of foreign interference, trying to influence regime change?
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No
 
monkeybarry said:
What I do think we will see is actually a reason to stay - and I'm interested to hear the view of people like yourself if this happens:

I think we are about to see a significant number of opposition and/or finge (IE Brexit Party) parties making up the MEPs.
Leaving a big gap in focus and policy Vs their domestic politics.
If the brexit party are suddenly very powerful in the European parliament and have a significant number of allies, doesn't this suddenly generate the power to change the EU that many brexiteers bemoaned we didn't have?
And with opposing domestic Political governance it also ensuring seperation of MP & MEPs, thus creating a platform for debate to influence the EU whilst also retaining domestic sovereignty.
Click to expand...


Its a very interesting chain of thought. I'm actually shocked a new party set up weeks ago are predicted to storm the vote when even I believed due to the noise made by the change party that the mood may have changed.

The name of the party is a PR masterstroke because its almost created a 2nd ref'dum feel, vote for one of the established or vote the Brexit party.

Where its clouded maybe is you vote the Brexit party only if your view is 100% for leave, naturally, based on the name, where as you could argue there are even more brexiteers voting in the other parties due to loyalty, abit like my dad.

Anyway to the question, It could be a win win, Brexit in the EU making bigger decisions which on paper seems a very good thing. My worry is that the EU is such that it might make no difference.

I would still prefer us to leave TBH, but very interesting food for thought.
 
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