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***OMT TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs Liverpool***

Wow. Dermot Gallagher, one of our most respected former refs, is effectively saying it's perfectly okay inside the box to push an attacker in the back.
 
Spur of the moment said:
Wow. Dermot Gallagher, one of our most respected former refs, is effectively saying it's perfectly okay inside the box to push an attacker in the back.
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Did they show him the Cancelo clip side to side? And ask why the inconsistency and why if you have no chance to get the ball it is ok just to kick or push the opponent. May as well just let everyone kick, punch and push opponents from now on if they can’t get the ball. Romero would love it, and it’s how Sanchez seems to play a lot of the time anyway when he fails to get the ball.
 
I think it's a penalty. If the ref gives it VAR doesn't change it.

Question is if it's "clear and obvious" to the point that VAR should change it when the ref doesn't give it.

It's difficult with those. Not like any small push in the back is a penalty, so there's a gray area. I guess this one doesn't qualify as "clear and obvious", not enough force to make it blatant. A push, but one you can get away with apparently.

This is what we get with VAR. There isn't a right and wrong decision, it's grey zones and those more rare clear and obvious mistakes. But in the end the majority of decisions stand with the original decision, which depends on the ref, his view, what he had for breakfast and all that.

To me it's a penalty. It's one we've gotten away with in the past I think. One where the ref's decision stands no matter what. Apparently not what VAR is for. Difficult to accept.
 
metalgear said:
possible that the ref angle influenced what he saw.
then again var should have picked it up.

when does a nudge becomes a push/barge?
some clear guidelines have to be there. e.g. shoulder to shoulder. but hand into back?
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IMO
A nudge is when you font extend your arm
 
El Guepardo said:
Did they show him the Cancelo clip side to side? And ask why the inconsistency and why if you have no chance to get the ball it is ok just to kick or push the opponent. May as well just let everyone kick, punch and push opponents from now on if they can’t get the ball. Romero would love it, and it’s how Sanchez seems to play a lot of the time anyway when he fails to get the ball.
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Same ref involved in both incidents
 
braineclipse said:
I think it's a penalty. If the ref gives it VAR doesn't change it.

Question is if it's "clear and obvious" to the point that VAR should change it when the ref doesn't give it.

It's difficult with those. Not like any small push in the back is a penalty, so there's a gray area. I guess this one doesn't qualify as "clear and obvious", not enough force to make it blatant. A push, but one you can get away with apparently.

This is what we get with VAR. There isn't a right and wrong decision, it's grey zones and those more rare clear and obvious mistakes. But in the end the majority of decisions stand with the original decision, which depends on the ref, his view, what he had for breakfast and all that.

To me it's a penalty. It's one we've gotten away with in the past I think. One where the ref's decision stands no matter what. Apparently not what VAR is for. Difficult to accept.
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I think the line is 'would it be a foul outside the box?' I'm pretty confident the vast majority of refs would think it is, therefore it simply must be a penalty; clear and obvious enough for me.
 
Decisions can be massive game changes..not all but a lot of the time.
It must be very disheartening for the team to see important decisions go against them...and we have had more than enough of
our share go against us in important games over the years.Why, I believe in a lot of cases its biased reffereing!
To pick one not so important game as an example,our CL final where they were given a penalty after five minutes for a so called handball.
Having given an opinnion on that, I don't understand how recent managers play poor players for our club continually.
We all..well some of us know our defence has been crap and gone backward. The midfield has gone completely missing in most game without a player
..defensive and forward midfield players who can hold on to the ball and pass acurately.
Was it once said the game is lost and won in midfield! Ours is lost in midfield and in defence.
We have improved a lot in midfield though but lack of cover for injuries show. Incidently I cant understand why Skip has not played
a part in recent games. I would even play him as a WB compaired to whar we have now....

Coys...never ending story...
also I would not be worried about top 4..when are we going to win the the title????????
 
If Sess had pushed TAA do we think VAR would have disallowed the goal? It seems to me VAR is used more to review things that cause goals rather than prevent them.
 
I think without similar investment to Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea and Saudi Sportswashing Machine then it’s highly likely that we will not win the league any time soon. How can you complete when the playing field is not level? So we support our team to be the best that we can in the circumstances. We can dream but it is possible that the dreams may never be realised. :(
 
El Guepardo said:
Which means he likely felt he went OTT on the Cancelo decision so balanced it out. Or at least that’s only thing other than complete bias or incompetence.
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The latter
Same ref who gave the Saudi Sportswashing Machine goal for the “contact” on Hugo was the VAR who chalked off the West Ham goal vs Chelsea.. the Chelsea one was even less intent and a worse call
It’s incompetence that creates inconsistency
I’ve always said I’ll take brick refs if they are consistent
 
El Guepardo said:
I think without similar investment to Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea and Saudi Sportswashing Outfit then it’s highly likely that we will not win the league any time soon. How can you complete when the playing field is not level? So we support our team to be the best that we can in the circumstances. We can dream but it is possible that the dreams may never be realised. :(
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Well offcourse we can win the title..just need to get the defence sorted..and stop bottling it!
 
MKSpur said:
If Sess had pushed TAA do we think VAR would have disallowed the goal? It seems to me VAR is used more to review things that cause goals rather than prevent them.
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Like that time Kane brushed passed Silva and 'scored' but Silva went down and got the free kick.
 
braineclipse said:
I think it's a penalty. If the ref gives it VAR doesn't change it.

Question is if it's "clear and obvious" to the point that VAR should change it when the ref doesn't give it.

It's difficult with those. Not like any small push in the back is a penalty, so there's a gray area. I guess this one doesn't qualify as "clear and obvious", not enough force to make it blatant. A push, but one you can get away with apparently.

This is what we get with VAR. There isn't a right and wrong decision, it's grey zones and those more rare clear and obvious mistakes. But in the end the majority of decisions stand with the original decision, which depends on the ref, his view, what he had for breakfast and all that.

To me it's a penalty. It's one we've gotten away with in the past I think. One where the ref's decision stands no matter what. Apparently not what VAR is for. Difficult to accept.
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I can't be arsed to read the proper rules, but the 'clear and obvious' part of VAR is bemusing. Not giving that pen was a clear and obvious error.
 
90291Spur said:
I can't be arsed to read the proper rules, but the 'clear and obvious' part of VAR is bemusing. Not giving that pen was a clear and obvious error.
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Definitely this. Not one single person has reported that they didn’t see Trent push Sessegnon. If everyone sees it happen then not at least reviewing it?? It’s a clear and obvious error.
 
El Guepardo said:
Definitely this. Not one single person has reported that they didn’t see Trent push Sessegnon. If everyone sees it happen then not at least reviewing it?? It’s a clear and obvious error.
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That's the thing. I think it was reviewed (at least, the commentators said at the time that VAR was having a look), but no action was taken.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that TAA pushed Sess hard enough to knock him over -- he was running at pace and the push was timed exactly as he got ready to kick the ball. Sess clearly fell over rather than expecting contact and throwing himself to the ground. Penalties have been given for a lot less than that, e.g. the merest hint of contact on a shin or knee.
 
El Guepardo said:
Definitely this. Not one single person has reported that they didn’t see Trent push Sessegnon. If everyone sees it happen then not at least reviewing it?? It’s a clear and obvious error.
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Here is the not very clarifying definition of ‘clear and obvious’:
https://www.premierleague.com/news/1297392

Anecdotally it appears to me that VAR more often overturns penalty decisions than gives them. At least for us (lillywhite spectacle alert).
 
Third worst defensive record in the top 10 and 10th worst defensive record in the league and we are a defensive team :smirk:
 
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