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O/T European Cup Changes?

Re: O/T Champions League

Jordinho said:
Back in the day more players would be playing in their domestic league, hence the teams from smaller leagues were stronger than they are today. They've started to compensate by importing players from Africa and South America, but many leagues are much weaker than they used to be.
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Just to further this point - some of the great eastern European players in the late 80s/early 90s were already in G14 clubs

- Stoichkov
- Balakov
- Savicevic
- Hagi
- Suker
- etc.
 
Re: O/T Champions League

Raziel said:
Usual stupidity built around greed, protectionism and agendas by people completely disconnected to the fans. CL needs to be smaller not bigger.

My view -> turn CL into a Cup Winners Cup, i.e. Winners of League, Domestic Trophies & Europa Cup (e.g. for England = PL, FA Cup, League Cup, +if someone wins Europa)

Then Europa becomes more of a "European FA Cup" with phased entries, maybe make it knock out all the way?

That way you actually make the CL more prestigious, you revive the value of domestic and Europa competition, and you actually make it much harder for a team to be in CL every year for numerous years in a row (hence making it harder for them to get an unfair advantage in their domestic league).
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Agreed, this would be the way to level the playing-field a bit more and make all these competitions more intrinsically interesting. Unfortunately, the business imperatives of the companies the clubs have morphed into face them in completely the opposite direction on both counts.
 
Re: O/T Champions League

ArcspacE said:
I suggest it's you who has to do a bit more research and compare the line-up in recent EL competitions (last 10 years) to those in the mid 80s for example

Here is the 1986/87 UEFA Cup 1st round line up (grpup stage equivalent - 1st round 'proper'

Which one would you say is harder / easier to win (even from a Spurs perspective)?
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The Uefa Cup. It had better teams in it, based on actual league tables and not subjective opinion.
 
Re: O/T Champions League

Most of the teams in those line ups strongly suggest the 'better teams' are in the latter list - or at the very least - there is considerably more of them. How did you reach that conclusion and could you possibly outline which teams were better than their 2012/13 equivalents?
 
Re: O/T Champions League

ArcspacE said:
Most of the teams in those line ups strongly suggest the 'better teams' are in the latter list - or at the very least - there is considerably more of them. How did you reach that conclusion and could you possibly outline which teams were better than their 2012/13 equivalents?
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League tables. Do you doubt the higher placed clubs would be in the Uefa Cup? And if league tables aren't an indicator of who are or are not stronger teams then why bother with them? Maybe a panel could come together at the start of the season to decide who is best on paper! :p
 
Re: O/T Champions League

Harry_Perkins said:
League tables. Do you doubt the higher placed clubs would be in the Uefa Cup? And if league tables aren't an indicator of who are or are not stronger teams then why bother with them? Maybe a panel could come together at the start of the season to decide who is best on paper! :p
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Given a sufficient number of scousers on the panel, maybe Liverpool could win the league at last?
 
Re: O/T Champions League

I would argue that the second placed Slovenian or Macedonian team is not as good as the 4th placed Italian or 5th placed English team but perhaps it's better to agree to disagree.
 
Re: O/T Champions League

galeforce said:
I'd say the EL now is easier to win that the 86/87 UC, it had Maradonna in it for a start
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Exactly. This shows the folly of looking at lists of clubs from different eras. Napoli, not a major name but a force back then because of Maradona.
 
Re: O/T Champions League

I agree with some of the previous comments that they are just figuring out the best way to introduce a European super league of some description, while not overly disrupting the domestic leagues. Fair enough if that's what they want they should call a spade a spade. European Super League I, and II for the 'brick' teams. Promotion of sorts achieved by some bizarre coefficient bollox that only a stoner could understand. Sorted.
 
Re: O/T Champions League

The prestige of the Europa League/UEFA Cup died when they broke away and made the Champions League. What they should be doing instead of increasing the number of teams is decreasing it and making it so only CHAMPIONS can play in the Champions League, the rest of them who finish 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. go to the Europa League, you give the Europa League more Value (and GHod, please change it back to the UEFA Cup name, at least it has history) as well as the CL because it actually is what it says, a champions league.
 
Re: O/T Champions League

i think there was a more even spread of talent back then as well, squads were smaller and the top players were not all grouped at a couple of clubs like they are now

at the start of the 90's for example we were not the dominant club in the country despite having Englands best 2 players
 
Re: O/T Champions League

galeforce said:
i think there was a more even spread of talent back then as well, squads were smaller and the top players were not all grouped at a couple of clubs like they are now

at the start of the 90's for example we were not the dominant club in the country despite having Englands best 2 players
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On a similar note - we had Croatia's, Wales', Togo's best players, one of the top 10 Dutch players along with 2 England regulars (Defoe and Lenon) last season

Eastern European stars were already leaving at the start of the 90s to joing Europe's biggest clubs
 
Re: O/T Champions League

Mumorn said:
The prestige of the Europa League/UEFA Cup died when they broke away and made the Champions League. What they should be doing instead of increasing the number of teams is decreasing it and making it so only CHAMPIONS can play in the Champions League, the rest of them who finish 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. go to the Europa League, you give the Europa League more Value (and GHod, please change it back to the UEFA Cup name, at least it has history) as well as the CL because it actually is what it says, a champions league.
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I just can't see this ever happening again. The money is in the CL or super league type format.
 
Re: O/T Champions League

ArcspacE said:
I would argue that the second placed Slovenian or Macedonian team is not as good as the 4th placed Italian or 5th placed English team but perhaps it's better to agree to disagree.
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And the 2nd placed English team would be stronger than the 5th placed English team and the 2nd palced Italian Team would be stronger than the 4th placed Italian team

There is a degree of subjectivity on this issue but there is a general consensus that the UEFA Cup prior to the advent o f the Champions League was the toughest European competition to win because of the strength in depth of the teams there and of course that teams took it seriously.

Both of these are not the case npw, particuarly here in England.
You are also wrong, the Champions League was created in 1992 or there or thereabouts. Prior to that it was the European Cup where only the winners of each league particpated.
 
Re: O/T Champions League

Have a look at the 2 lists on the previous page and see for youself which one contains the tougher teams.

Now we have 3 top English teams not just one, same for Italian, Spanish, etc.

Are you saying the old UEFA Cup was tougher to win the old CL as well
 
Re: O/T Champions League

ArcspacE said:
I would argue that the second placed Slovenian or Macedonian team is not as good as the 4th placed Italian or 5th placed English team but perhaps it's better to agree to disagree.
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Slovenia and Macedonia used to be part of Yugoslavia. The Yugoslav league had Red Star, Partizan Belgrade, Dinamo Zagreb, Hajduk Split.... see the point? Or perhaps not, depending on your age!
 
Re: O/T Champions League

RigorMortis said:
You are also wrong, the Champions League was created in 1992 or there or thereabouts. Prior to that it was the European Cup where only the winners of each league particpated.
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It was re-branded and expanded in 1992, which is exactly what I said - but it is regarded as the same tophy/competition (i.e. Europe's finest) by everyone including the statisticians. Same for the Premier League and first division - fotball DID exist prior to that.
 
Re: O/T Champions League

there was also a limit to foreign players allowed in the starting lineup which helped even things out
 
Re: O/T Champions League

Harry_Perkins said:
Slovenia and Macedonia used to be part of Yugoslavia. The Yugoslav league had Red Star, Partizan Belgrade, Dinamo Zagreb, Hajduk Split.... see the point? Or perhaps not, depending on your age!
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What patronising drivel - great debate

I was making reference to your modern day scenario of having only 1 team from each league which you seem to believe was stronger back then eventhough the modern line up contains many more stronger teams (more from each league in other words). So your claim of being 'tougher' back then is rather strange
 
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