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Next Spurs manager mega-thread

who would it be?

  • Jose Mourinho

    Votes: 110 48.0%
  • Guus Hiddink

    Votes: 29 12.7%
  • Louis Van Gaal

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • David Moyes

    Votes: 20 8.7%
  • Brendan Rodgers

    Votes: 40 17.5%
  • Alan Pardew

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Tim Owl Face Sherwood

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Fabio Capello

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Seb Bassong

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Sandra Redknapp

    Votes: 15 6.6%

  • Total voters
    229
wait, so we might struggle to maintain our top four challenge due to adapting to a new style of play under a new manager, but Liverpool should be able to do exactly that and more with ease?

I don't think they will be eight, but i do struggle to see a scenario with them challenging to be in the top four this coming season, if they adapt well to Rodgers tactics i can see it happening in the next though.

I see what you mean. no not with ease. I just think Liverpool will be up there with us fighting for 4th 5th 6th along with Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Chelsea, Arsenal. United and City will probably be out of our sights and going on the last few seasons for City, and United's dominance I think thats a gimme.

So this season will be tougher than last season, not just because of our manger change but because others will be stronger. Last season was our season to get 3rd, I can't see us getting 3rd unless Chelsea, Arsenal slip up massively again. Its possible for Arsenal, should they lose Van Persie as he bailed them out so many times last season. But Chelsea are stronger with Marin and Hazard and they seem to have settled with Di Matteo.
 
I see what you mean. no not with ease. I just think Liverpool will be up there with us fighting for 4th 5th 6th along with Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Chelsea, Arsenal. United and City will probably be out of our sights and going on the last few seasons for City, and United's dominance I think thats a gimme.

So this season will be tougher than last season, not just because of our manger change but because others will be stronger. Last season was our season to get 3rd, I can't see us getting 3rd unless Chelsea, Arsenal slip up massively again. Its possible for Arsenal, should they lose Van Persie as he bailed them out so many times last season. But Chelsea are stronger with Marin and Hazard and they seem to have settled with Di Matteo.

Yeah i get that.

Though it might be that the 'honeymoon' period has finished for di Matteo, and not that they are settled, but such things will be impossible to judge until the next season.
 
They could easily be as bad, they are in the same boat as us really. Can their players all adapt to the new system that Rodgers will attempt to bring in?

Liverpool and us are in similar situations in that we both are bringing in new coaches who will impose a playing system where previously there was none. The difference being that we are starting in a better place than Rodgers is, in my opinion.
 
Yeah i get that.

Though it might be that the 'honeymoon' period has finished for di Matteo, and not that they are settled, but such things will be impossible to judge until the next season.

I hope so. And IF we get AVB, I would always want him to do amazingly well, but just imagine, if he becomes our Mourinho and our saviour. Long shot, but anything can happen and that would pi55 off the Chelsea fans and footballs fans in general!!
 
Liverpool and us are in similar situations in that we both are bringing in new coaches who will impose a playing system where previously there was none. The difference being that we are starting in a better place than Rodgers is, in my opinion.

I would agree with you.

The fact that we need to buy a couple of players, and have the funds to do so may well play into the new managers hands. Being able to purchase people he sees that will fit into his system is a huge bonus.

Compared to Rodgers who is coming into a Liverpool team who have spent heavily on players over the past year, so may well be reluctant to open the chequebook.
 
Is it though?

Because these days I see it as some budget, Lidl version of the Champions League. It's a competition whose format UEFA are now forever playing around with, because it just doesn't attract any attention or respect. They don't want to devalue their blue-chip competition, so the Europa League becomes its poor alternative, both in competition and financial reward.

I have no problem with winning things, but it's the standard which I take issue with. Each to their own, but I never got excited about winning the Carling Cup, just as I very much doubt Chelsea fans were all that bothered about losing it either. Their expectations are such that they'll be competing at the business end of the Premier League, and in both the Champions League and/or FA Cup.

It's not embarrassing to have high standards. If clubs on the continent see more value in the Europa League, then good luck to them - but I'd counter that it's probably more owing to the fact that, relatively speaking, their leagues don't generate the financial rewards which the Premier League does, therefore they are forced to be more competitive in every competition available to them.

Depends what people want really: if you're obsessed with short-termism, then yeah fine just carry on with this 'I hope we win x trophy this season' mentality. However, if you're a little bit more strategic then you have to think longer-term; what is it that we can do in order to change my level of expectation from 'I hope' to 'I expect'.
.

So much I disagree with, if you weren't happy/excited with our CC Cup wins, then I feel sorry for you.

Would you really consider the Scum's last 7 years as successful? because it is according to your view, and I don't.

While I understand the business value of CL and 4th, fans and players want Silverware, even if it's a "lesser" trophy.

And there is a big difference between ambition and delusion, Tottenham now and in the next 5 years (without a sugar daddy investment) will not have the financial ability to win the PL (that is a fact, not lack of ambition), we certainly do have the ability to win a trophy in that time however. I for one would be very happy if the next couple of years included a CC and Europa win.
 
So much I disagree with, if you weren't happy/excited with our CC Cup wins, then I feel sorry for you.

Would you really consider the Scum's last 7 years as successful? because it is according to your view, and I don't.

While I understand the business value of CL and 4th, fans and players want Silverware, even if it's a "lesser" trophy.

And there is a big difference between ambition and delusion, Tottenham now and in the next 5 years (without a sugar daddy investment) will not have the financial ability to win the PL (that is a fact, not lack of ambition), we certainly do have the ability to win a trophy in that time however. I for one would be very happy if the next couple of years included a CC and Europa win.


I would dispute that. One of the overriding factors in players wanting to go to clubs these days are whether or not the club is in the Champions League. Partly for the chance to play in the 'biggest' competition, partly because it means they will be paid that much more.

Edit: Personally i will always judge our season on how well we do in the PL compared to whether or not we have won a trophy or not. Simply because the PL is a far better indicator of how the club is progressing. 38 games long, everyone plays everyone. Compared to a cup run where you may or may not play against the good teams, and the luck of the draw is usually the difference between teams going far or falling early.
 
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Is it though?

Because these days I see it as some budget, Lidl version of the Champions League. It's a competition whose format UEFA are now forever playing around with, because it just doesn't attract any attention or respect. They don't want to devalue their blue-chip competition, so the Europa League becomes its poor alternative, both in competition and financial reward.

I have no problem with winning things, but it's the standard which I take issue with. Each to their own, but I never got excited about winning the Carling Cup, just as I very much doubt Chelsea fans were all that bothered about losing it either. Their expectations are such that they'll be competing at the business end of the Premier League, and in both the Champions League and/or FA Cup.

It's not embarrassing to have high standards. If clubs on the continent see more value in the Europa League, then good luck to them - but I'd counter that it's probably more owing to the fact that, relatively speaking, their leagues don't generate the financial rewards which the Premier League does, therefore they are forced to be more competitive in every competition available to them.

Depends what people want really: if you're obsessed with short-termism, then yeah fine just carry on with this 'I hope we win x trophy this season' mentality. However, if you're a little bit more strategic then you have to think longer-term; what is it that we can do in order to change my level of expectation from 'I hope' to 'I expect'.

The biggest, most challenging competition open to us, is the Premier League. That's 38 games worth of challenge and competition. To finish in the top 4, you need to maintain a very high level of performance, ie: drive a level of consistency within your team. The goal is always to deliver consistency whilst continually strengthening, thus maintaining your competitiveness. Therein, if we focus on the league, then it's a natural consequence that we'll raise our ability - and expectation - of progression in other cup competitions.

So, focusing on 'I hope we win Trophy X' is a pure and utter nonsense. We were forced to settle for that through the 90s as we were a brick and inconsistent league team. We are no longer in that unenviable position though, therefore our priorities should change in accordance.

Where Harry had it wrong, IMO, was in insisting that aiming to qualify for the CL and aiming to win the Europa League are mutually exclusive - that the one cannot be achieved at the same time as the other. That's just wrong. And small time.

Of course big clubs should aspire always to be in the CL.

But if a big club should find itself, like us, in the Europa League then, if it really wants to act like a big club, it has to have a proper go at winning that competition - regardless that it is an inferior competition to the CL.
 
I would dispute that. One of the overriding factors in players wanting to go to clubs these days are whether or not the club is in the Champions League. Partly for the chance to play in the 'biggest' competition, partly because it means they will be paid that much more.

Edit: Personally i will always judge our season on how well we do in the PL compared to whether or not we have won a trophy or not. Simply because the PL is a far better indicator of how the club is progressing. 38 games long, everyone plays everyone. Compared to a cup run where you may or may not play against the good teams, and the luck of the draw is usually the difference between teams going far or falling early.

That may be true from the wages perspective, but no player wants to end their career minus medals.

Why do you think players have left the Scum in the last few years, they are playing in the CL, the Scum pays big wages ...
 
So much I disagree with, if you weren't happy/excited with our CC Cup wins, then I feel sorry for you.

Would you really consider the Scum's last 7 years as successful? because it is according to your view, and I don't.

While I understand the business value of CL and 4th, fans and players want Silverware, even if it's a "lesser" trophy.

And there is a big difference between ambition and delusion, Tottenham now and in the next 5 years (without a sugar daddy investment) will not have the financial ability to win the PL (that is a fact, not lack of ambition), we certainly do have the ability to win a trophy in that time however. I for one would be very happy if the next couple of years included a CC and Europa win.

What's there to "feel sorry" about? :~

Well, with the greatest of respect, Arsenal have continued to finish above us in the league - so, to that end, they're obviously achieving better results than we are. Those better results allow them access to substantial financial resources while will only serve to reaffirm the small monopoloy which exists within the Top 4; a virtuous circle if there were ever one.

You're deluding yourself mate, if you think the likes of Luka Modric or Gareth Bale get all excited and feel a real sense of achievement...by winning the Carling Cup. It is what is, and - sorry mate - but if you're ambitious, then it's not good enough - not by a long shot. It's a second-rate cup; a tainted achievement; something you 'won', but not exactly something you'd ever boast about.

I dunno so much about your "facts", because unless you have some time machine, I don't suppose you can tell what the future holes? Anyway, who's talking about winning the Premier League? I'm not. I'm talking about raising our standard over the course of a season to a higher level than the brick, embarrassing record which we currently have. It's that brick, embarrassing record which lead to Spurs fans seeking some solace and 'glory' elsewhere, ie: hoping for a cup win 'year ends in one' and all that nonsense.

Y'know something, I've always found the whole 'year ends in one' cringe-worthy. Why? Because think about what it says about Tottenham Hotspur: happy to sing a song about winning something...every 10 years. So, for the intervening 9 years, Spurs will be fudging dogbrick and nothing to speak about at all; but, once the year turns '1' - whoosh, glory! It's embarrassing isn't it?

Finishing high up in the league isn't all to do with "business value" - although, in the current incarnation of the league, there's a healthy relationship between achievement and reward. No, for me, making sure that you finish high in the league is more about recognising that - over the course of a season; 38 games and 9 months of football, you set a consistently high standard. That's the true measure.

As for Cup football? Exciting, but it's a completely different kettle of fish. It's knock-out football, and winning a cup competition doesn't - to me anyway - prove much, only that you managed - by hook or by crook - to negotiate your way through about 5 or 6 games. By nature, there's a high degree of variance, and luck plays a far more important role. Over the course of a season though, variance will be moderated and luck 'evens itself out'.

So it's up to you really I suppose, but I'll always rate performance in the league with far, far higher importance than any performance in cup competitions. I'm confident there is a close correlation between cup win rate versa league position as well, so we have to address the latter and then the former should naturally follow. It's just common sense really isn't it?
 
What's there to "feel sorry" about? :~

Well, with the greatest of respect, Arsenal have continued to finish above us in the league - so, to that end, they're obviously achieving better results than we are. Those better results allow them access to substantial financial resources while will only serve to reaffirm the small monopoloy which exists within the Top 4; a virtuous circle if there were ever one.

You're deluding yourself mate, if you think the likes of Luka Modric or Gareth Bale get all excited and feel a real sense of achievement...by winning the Carling Cup. It is what is, and - sorry mate - but if you're ambitious, then it's not good enough - not by a long shot. It's a second-rate cup; a tainted achievement; something you 'won', but not exactly something you'd ever boast about.

I dunno so much about your "facts", because unless you have some time machine, I don't suppose you can tell what the future holes? Anyway, who's talking about winning the Premier League? I'm not. I'm talking about raising our standard over the course of a season to a higher level than the brick, embarrassing record which we currently have. It's that brick, embarrassing record which lead to Spurs fans seeking some solace and 'glory' elsewhere, ie: hoping for a cup win 'year ends in one' and all that nonsense.

Y'know something, I've always found the whole 'year ends in one' cringe-worthy. Why? Because think about what it says about Tottenham Hotspur: happy to sing a song about winning something...every 10 years. So, for the intervening 9 years, Spurs will be fudging dogbrick and nothing to speak about at all; but, once the year turns '1' - whoosh, glory! It's embarrassing isn't it?

Finishing high up in the league isn't all to do with "business value" - although, in the current incarnation of the league, there's a healthy relationship between achievement and reward. No, for me, making sure that you finish high in the league is more about recognising that - over the course of a season; 38 games and 9 months of football, you set a consistently high standard. That's the true measure.

As for Cup football? Exciting, but it's a completely different kettle of fish. It's knock-out football, and winning a cup competition doesn't - to me anyway - prove much, only that you managed - by hook or by crook - to negotiate your way through about 5 or 6 games. By nature, there's a high degree of variance, and luck plays a far more important role. Over the course of a season though, variance will be moderated and luck 'evens itself out'.

So it's up to you really I suppose, but I'll always rate performance in the league with far, far higher importance than any performance in cup competitions. I'm confident there is a close correlation between cup win rate versa league position as well, so we have to address the latter and then the former should naturally follow. It's just common sense really isn't it?

like that. good post.
 
Where Harry had it wrong, IMO, was in insisting that aiming to qualify for the CL and aiming to win the Europa League are mutually exclusive - that the one cannot be achieved at the same time as the other. That's just wrong. And small time.

Of course big clubs should aspire always to be in the CL.

But if a big club should find itself, like us, in the Europa League then, if it really wants to act like a big club, it has to have a proper go at winning that competition - regardless that it is an inferior competition to the CL.

I have to disagree.

Y'know what, I think Harry wanted to focus on improving the Clubs' performance in the league, because he knew that - over the long-term - that IS what would benefit the club the most. It isn't "small time" to assess your competitions and then prioritise; it's actually good management, as you're trying to mitigate the risk of spreading yourself too thinly, and failing on all objectives.

It's easy to sit in the stands though, and criticise Harry for picking some second-rate team for a Europa game; yet that criticism never seemed to recognise that, usually on the following Sunday, we'd be playing an important league fixture - one which, no doubt, the very same fans would be expecting us to win also. So, what does Harry do; play the same players all of the time? Of course not, because they'll be burnt out by Christmas and we'll achieve nothing at all.

Sorry, but I'm firmly in the prioritise camp; Ferguson does it with Manchester United and Wenger does it with Arsenal - it works for them, so I can't see why we shouldn't be copying the approach. We need to be realists here: we don't have this amazing squad which can go out there and win everything - no club does - so we have to take a view as to where best to focus our resources on. Without any question, it's got to be the league.
 
I have to disagree.

Y'know what, I think Harry wanted to focus on improving the Clubs' performance in the league, because he knew that - over the long-term - that IS what would benefit the club the most. It isn't "small time" to assess your competitions and then prioritise; it's actually good management, as you're trying to mitigate the risk of spreading yourself too thinly, and failing on all objectives.

It's easy to sit in the stands though, and criticise Harry for picking some second-rate team for a Europa game; yet that criticism never seemed to recognise that, usually on the following Sunday, we'd be playing an important league fixture - one which, no doubt, the very same fans would be expecting us to win also. So, what does Harry do; play the same players all of the time? Of course not, because they'll be burnt out by Christmas and we'll achieve nothing at all.

Sorry, but I'm firmly in the prioritise camp; Ferguson does it with Manchester United and Wenger does it with Arsenal - it works for them, so I can't see why we shouldn't be copying the approach. We need to be realists here: we don't have this amazing squad which can go out there and win everything - no club does - so we have to take a view as to where best to focus our resources on. Without any question, it's got to be the league.

you're right. Arsenal may not have won anything for 7 years but they have been in the Champions League for what, 15 years plus? They generate so much money from that and have never been outside the top 4 for GHod knows what time. League is key and shows outsiders how you do over a season as opposed to 5/6 games.
 
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