Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Gazza]

Where would that money come from? City just bought the title with a squad that cost £0.5Bn more than ours.

Even if Levy could somehow find £0.5Bn to catch up (he can't) then what's to stop City just going out and spending £1Bn?

Don't think that we are talking about blowing half a billion. Just talking in line of player wages to be more competitive and possibly spending the budget on a few players that could push us on.

Where would levy get the money from? Joe Lewis? Failing that I'm sure that we are making decent profit which should be used to reinvest in the team.

We have the infrastructure in place now and don't need to invest in facilities for the foreseeable future.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Where would that money come from? City just bought the title with a squad that cost £0.5Bn more than ours.

Even if Levy could somehow find £0.5Bn to catch up (he can't) then what's to stop City just going out and spending £1Bn?

Liverpool have just reached the CL final. Granted they had a lucky draw but they have also won a few games very well on a structure not dissimilar to ours. City can only buy 22 players. So can United. So while we can’t compete with them, more cash can improve our squad if spent properly. It’ll also alleviate some of the squad disharmony at the present situation.

Poch knows he can’t keep doing what he’s doing. To finish third this year was a fabulous effort but I’m sure he wants to push on a bit because he knows that at some stage, we’re going to drop off if we don’t do something differently.

 

[jts1882]

Couple of things (but it’s subject to how the financing works)..

They needed to sell the flats built on the old ground but they couldn’t be built until they moved. They also didn’t buy land and do enabling works as things went along like we have

They also have to hold onto a BIG pot of money as a security (£100m plus from memory)as their then owners were not that rich

They also started paying their players a lot more a lot quicker hence bentner getting £64k when he was gash

Their commercial income from sponsors wasn’t a patch on where were at now (we have better deals now than them in some cases)

TV money is about 400% higher to help fund it

Arsenal had two loans. The £250m loan for the stadium which was financed at a good rate (for then) over 20 or 25 years. Iirc, this was costing them about £18m per year.

Then they had another loan (£140m?) for the Highbury development and another enabling development, which was at a higher rate. Something went wrong with these developments, either delays and/or difficulties in selling the apartments, which meant they had this additional loan for longer than planned and may have raised less money in sales than expected. The £100m cash they needed to hold may have been related to this.

I've seen it claimed that they also paid off the stadium debt, which would have cost them a lot more each year. I've never seen any firm evidence for this, though, and it doesn't seem to make much sense as £18m a year is nothing in the scheme of things.

Levy has been planning for this for far longer than Arsenal and with Lewis there is much more financial know-how. If there is an "if" in our planning it will be in naming rights and how it is paid, which could make a substantial difference in how much extra money we have now. A large deal paid up front could leave us with more money now, but if we need to wait for the money (instalments or waiting for a suitable deal) there will be more to pay on the stadium over the next few years.

 

[the dza]

And yet this season, only the most (2nd most?) financially doped club in the world and the biggest club in the world finished in front of us. Behind us was a club that is very rich, based on 40 year old success (hopefully soon to fade) and another financially doped club.

Even taking into account the fact that we pay high ticket prices, we still finished at least one place ahead of where we should have done. The only real alternative is for us to become financially doped, which is not something I want to consider for our club - others may differ in that opinion.

We're doing well to be up where we are, I agree. We have players who are worth hundreds of millions between them, it'd take some financial doping for us to afford them at their current level (likes of Kane and Eriksen). But surely the point of moving to a new stadium and paying the sky-high ticket prices is to be able to retain these players and add to them. Not on City's level, but say, beating Liverpool to signing Mane, or being able to pay Toby a wage where he thinks it's best for him to stay. That can be the difference between us winning things and not winning them.

That's why I think there will come a point where fans, like the gooners, will question why they are paying through the nose to sit in a nice shiny stadium, when the team is still the same level as at WHL. If the investment in the team matches the expense of the tickets, then the fans will go along with it, but if not, then they won't imo.

Poch is right to ask for more, I think.

 

[scaramanga]

Don't think that we are talking about blowing half a billion. Just talking in line of player wages to be more competitive and possibly spending the budget on a few players that could push us on.

Where would levy get the money from? Joe Lewis? Failing that I'm sure that we are making decent profit which should be used to reinvest in the team.

We have the infrastructure in place now and don't need to invest in facilities for the foreseeable future.

That's still just joining the arms race - something we can never win. Lewis doesn't nearly have enough money to get into it with people who are oil rich, and why would he?

We may have the infrastructure now, but we have to service the debt until it's paid off. Our infrastructure will do two things for us; Provide an affordable source of players (training facilities) and allow us to tread water in terms of finances (new ground).

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Arsenal had two loans. The £250m loan for the stadium which was financed at a good rate (for then) over 20 or 25 years. Iirc, this was costing them about £18m per year.

Then they had another loan (£140m?) for the Highbury development and another enabling development, which was at a higher rate. Something went wrong with these developments, either delays and/or difficulties in selling the apartments, which meant they had this additional loan for longer than planned and may have raised less money in sales than expected. The £100m cash they needed to hold may have been related to this.

I've seen it claimed that they also paid off the stadium debt, which would have cost them a lot more each year. I've never seen any firm evidence for this, though, and it doesn't seem to make much sense as £18m a year is nothing in the scheme of things.

Levy has been planning for this for far longer than Arsenal and with Lewis there is much more financial know-how. If there is an "if" in our planning it will be in naming rights and how it is paid, which could make a substantial difference in how much extra money we have now. A large deal paid up front could leave us with more money now, but if we need to wait for the money (instalments or waiting for a suitable deal) there will be more to pay on the stadium over the next few years.

I scoured some arse forums yesterday and also some other reports that have been done

The stuff I’ve read has a consensus that they have basically been paying off minimal capex £6m a year and are no where near to paying the stadium off (2031 was the date). They do have cash reserves that could clear most of their debt but they have to be held as securities on something

Your right about the issues with the apartments as they took longer than they planned IIRC

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Well done to Poch for another excellent league season and improvement in the Champions League. Let's hope Levy will back him as needed and we can try and challenge City next season. Doesn't feel like we were ever fully firing this season and we still finished 3rd. We are probably 1 real star quality signing from making a challenge for the title -- think Bale instead of Son, something like that.

Exactly my thinking, exciting times IMHO. Strengthen the side in a couple of key places and get everyone on form and we can do amazing things.

 

[Raziel]

People actually need to read the entire statement and understand a few things

- The stadium is not going to be a burden, as many people have pointed out, it's no different than a mortgage. It will likely double our gate revenue, bigger commercial options, NFL deal (that we still don't know the value of), Naming rights, alternative events (concerts/etc.) in addition to improved tv rights and we haven't even gone down the "Sleeve sponsor" brick that other clubs are doing.
- Any Spurs fan who is worried about Levy managing money just hasn't being paying attention, this fudging guy has already sold the cranes he bought to build the stadium for more than he paid for them ..

So to Poch

- He has mentioned several times, a project, timelines and deliverables. What we know is he was asked to deliver CL in a certain timeframe, from some of the comments we are ahead of schedule by anywhere from 1-4 years.

In any business of a certain size (and yes I have some experience), you make long term targets with in year execution plans and short term measurables, if you significantly exceed your early targets, you will often readjust the longer term plan.

Poch clearly said

- We can't expect to outspend others, win trophies by just spending more (knowing the money available to City/United/Chelsea/Pool)
- However, we do need to take more risks.

My interpretation

- He wants to revaluate the goals/objectives of next 1-3 years (which Levy would probably ask for anyway if ahead of schedule)
- He probably wants to bring forward some agreed ideas like higher wage structure, investment in the odd established player vs. always "promising"
- Yes, its a bit of pressure, but not the take or leave it, more the I think this makes sense to consider and I have built the credit for you to trust me.

To a couple of other points

- @DeanoAustin Pool's wage structure is no where near ours and their money model is a disaster over last decade, they have just been bailed out by selling Torres/Suarez/Coutinho, not by any legitimate planning.
- To others re our owner, the trump card Lewis has is his ability to guarantee loans (something he has done previously), vs. actually needing to invest cash.

And ffs .. can Spurs fans not enjoy 5 minutes in the sunlight before seeking the misery of the dark?

3rd motherfudgers !!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Liverpool have just reached the CL final. Granted they had a lucky draw but they have also won a few games very well on a structure not dissimilar to ours. City can only buy 22 players. So can United. So while we can’t compete with them, more cash can improve our squad if spent properly. It’ll also alleviate some of the squad disharmony at the present situation.

Poch knows he can’t keep doing what he’s doing. To finish third this year was a fabulous effort but I’m sure he wants to push on a bit because he knows that at some stage, we’re going to drop off if we don’t do something differently.

Could easily have been us in the CL final if we had more luck in the Juve game with the ref seeing some of their fouls for a start

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I’ll ask one simple question on Toby and answer it honestly. If he didn’t have a contract dispute, do you think he would have played the big games that he missed since his return?

I think the contract was nothing to do with it.

In his first few appearances back he looked not half the player he usually does. Clearly not ready yet.

At the same time, Sanchez was playing well. There was no need to rush him in.

And while on the matter, I think Sanchez gets a raw deal. There seems to be a growing narrative about him being error prone etc, which is, frankly, gonad*s IMHO.

Yes, he has made a few mistakes, but by and large I think he has been excellent this year and has deserved to hold his place in the team.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

What is it that we have done differently/better than Arsenal in regard to the new stadium where they was skint for a few years because of it, whereas according to some on here we won’t have any financial constraints?

Covered very well here:

Couple of things (but it’s subject to how the financing works)..

They needed to sell the flats built on the old ground but they couldn’t be built until they moved. They also didn’t buy land and do enabling works as things went along like we have

They also have to hold onto a BIG pot of money as a security (£100m plus from memory)as their then owners were not that rich

They also started paying their players a lot more a lot quicker hence bentner getting £64k when he was gash

Their commercial income from sponsors wasn’t a patch on where were at now (we have better deals now than them in some cases)

TV money is about 400% higher to help fund it

Short version, different time, different set up, and not that comparable.

The only thing I would add is that Arsenal did spend, frequently, and offered consistently high wages. Its not like they were paupers.

With us? Obviously time will tell, but with Levy looking after the £££'s Im really not inclined to worry.

He will have seen exactly what they did, what worked, what didnt, and bettered it all.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Pochs comments got a few of you all hyped up I see

They dont bother me in the least, amazing how many Spurs fans natural response is to fear the worst.

The way I read it? We are ahead of schedule in our development and need to shift on to the next phase, likely earlier than expected.

Poch would have come in on a remit to get us competing regularly for CL football.

We now have 3 consequtive seasons, also 3 seasons in the top 3 (not 4!).

This puts us ahead of the plan, IMO.

We have all seen how close we are to winning things as well. Liverpool in the CL final - that could very easily have been us.

I read Pochs comments as this - lets move up the plan and start focusing on winning the big prizes rather than just being in the game.

Simple. In reality that will mean a couple of statement buys, most likely, to take the team and squad up a notch.

And, lets be honest now, he isnt wrong - is he?

 

[StephenH]

Where would that money come from? City just bought the title with a squad that cost £0.5Bn more than ours.

Even if Levy could somehow find £0.5Bn to catch up (he can't) then what's to stop City just going out and spending £1Bn?

its a tough crowd today!

 

[DeanoAustin]

I think the contract was nothing to do with it.

In his first few appearances back he looked not half the player he usually does. Clearly not ready yet.

At the same time, Sanchez was playing well. There was no need to rush him in.

And while on the matter, I think Sanchez gets a raw deal. There seems to be a growing narrative about him being error prone etc, which is, frankly, gonads IMHO.

Yes, he has made a few mistakes, but by and large I think he has been excellent this year and has deserved to hold his place in the team.

Toby didn’t get a proper chance to get back in the side after his injury because of his contract situation. Look at the clubs being mentioned around him. They’re some of the biggest clubs in the world because he’s world class.

Sanchez is error prone. He’s error prone because he’s in his early 20s and in a new league. He has the talent but, like any other lad of that age, he’s going to make mistakes. Even Ronaldo was the same at that age. His display at The Emirates says to me that he could be an absolute monster. His display at Anfield says that he still needs work.

Don’t get me wrong. I think Sanchez is great and has bags of potential. But he wouldn’t have been played nearly as much this season but for Toby’s contract situation. Denying that is burying your head in the sand. Look at the league game at OT. Poch dropped Sanchez rather than Toby or Jan when he wanted to play a 4. That’s because those two are our most reliable pairing.

In a normal situation, Toby plays against Juve and United in the semi final. Otherwise, Poch is nuts. And Poch ain’t nuts.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Covered very well here:



Short version, different time, different set up, and not that comparable.

The only thing I would add is that Arsenal did spend, frequently, and offered consistently high wages. Its not like they were paupers.

With us? Obviously time will tell, but with Levy looking after the £££'s Im really not inclined to worry.

He will have seen exactly what they did, what worked, what didnt, and bettered it all.

Yeah true
Arse have been paying wages of over a £1m a week more than us consistently before spending any money on transfers

 

[DeanoAustin]

People actually need to read the entire statement and understand a few things

- The stadium is not going to be a burden, as many people have pointed out, it's no different than a mortgage. It will likely double our gate revenue, bigger commercial options, NFL deal (that we still don't know the value of), Naming rights, alternative events (concerts/etc.) in addition to improved tv rights and we haven't even gone down the "Sleeve sponsor" brick that other clubs are doing.
- Any Spurs fan who is worried about Levy managing money just hasn't being paying attention, this fudging guy has already sold the cranes he bought to build the stadium for more than he paid for them ..

So to Poch

- He has mentioned several times, a project, timelines and deliverables. What we know is he was asked to deliver CL in a certain timeframe, from some of the comments we are ahead of schedule by anywhere from 1-4 years.

In any business of a certain size (and yes I have some experience), you make long term targets with in year execution plans and short term measurables, if you significantly exceed your early targets, you will often readjust the longer term plan.

Poch clearly said

- We can't expect to outspend others, win trophies by just spending more (knowing the money available to City/United/Chelsea/Pool)
- However, we do need to take more risks.

My interpretation

- He wants to revaluate the goals/objectives of next 1-3 years (which Levy would probably ask for anyway if ahead of schedule)
- He probably wants to bring forward some agreed ideas like higher wage structure, investment in the odd established player vs. always "promising"
- Yes, its a bit of pressure, but not the take or leave it, more the I think this makes sense to consider and I have built the credit for you to trust me.

To a couple of other points

- @DeanoAustin Pool's wage structure is no where near ours and their money model is a disaster over last decade, they have just been bailed out by selling Torres/Suarez/Coutinho, not by any legitimate planning.
- To others re our owner, the trump card Lewis has is his ability to guarantee loans (something he has done previously), vs. actually needing to invest cash.

And ffs .. can Spurs fans not enjoy 5 minutes in the sunlight before seeking the misery of the dark?

3rd motherfudgers !!

Fair point on Liverpool’s wage structure. I guess my point was that they operate in the market on a similar basis to us - buy younger players with a sell on value. Of the other top 6 clubs, their model is probably the closest to ours albeit they spend a much higher % of their (higher) turnover on wages.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Yeah true
Arse have been paying wages of over a £1m a week more than us consistently before spending any money on transfers

Dont forget the ridiculous sums City gave them on transfer deals as well.

Toure, Nasri, Clichy - all sold horrendously over value which made Arsenals trading look a lot more frugal than it was.

 

[StephenH]

All well and good, but remember that match-going fans will be paying amongst the highest ticket prices in world football. Lowering expectations whilst jacking up prices is going to lead to discontent at some point, like it has done for the gooners down the road.

I do understand. I dont personally get to matches that often. My daughter and Son in law were over with the oldest grandson (Spurs convert from Man U) yesterday, we all enjoying that daft game. She "announced" I will be taking them all to the new stadium......my credit card started vibrate.....

I can only use my own 'boring' rule. If I can afford 'whatever' I buy it and dont ever try to justify that purchase, If I can't I just have to suck it up and move on.
The prices at the new stadium would be prohibitive to me on a regular basis now so.....a trip is/will be a treat or a burden financially if family all tag along.

 

[NickTB]

The one thing about this whole saga that REALLY boils my tinkle, is the ammunition it gives to Talklbrick. I love having it on the background, but all I keep hearing today is the possibility Poch could be off. Does my head in

 

[Gazza]

Doesn't help when our own fans buy into the nonsense