Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[P.D.]

As I recall, the vast consensus was that we desperately needed pace in the team so we could revert to a plan B. Llorente was not what was required at all. The experiments of Soldado and Jansen should have shown that. We still need that pace and some of our turgid, torpid performances this season have shown that the pace of Rose and Walker were big misses and there was no real blistering pace in the team. We simply must rectify that next season. Plus some more guile in midfield to give Eriksen some help. Lamela is not the answer.

I agree we need at least two first team additions with pace. Plus like-for-like replacements if Toby and Rose leave.

It's not only about players with pace, we tend to move the ball quite slowly as well. Some adjustments needed in midfield to include players who can recycle the ball quickly to put more pressure on teams. Our build up play is often fairly slow.

We've been linked with players like Gomes who seem the type to help with this so hopefully Poch recognises this as well.

 

[parklane1]

It's not only about players with pace, we tend to move the ball quite slowly as well. Some adjustments needed in midfield to include players who can recycle the ball quickly to put more pressure on teams. Our build up play is often fairly slow.

We've been linked with players like Gomes who seem the type to help with this so hopefully Poch recognises this as well.

Very good point, i think we do move the ball slowly at times and other teams have sussed that out and just drop while we go from side to side. Not saying we have to change our game plan but there are times when we need a bit more urgency.

 

[milo]

Historically clubs who havent qualified for the CL have still managed to acquire top players, its just as important if not more so that you pay the top wages. Look at Arsenal with Aubamayang or however you spell it as a recent example...

Maybe but it certainly makes it harder. We do not have the financial muscle to compete on wages and to compensate players for not being in the CL. I think that we'd be alright if we missed out for one season but much more than that and it would be difficult to recruit and retain the players that we want. We'd be looking at another rebuilding job.

 

[Gazza]

Very good point, i think we do move the ball slowly at times and other teams have sussed that out and just drop while we go from side to side. Not saying we have to change our game plan but there are times when we need a bit more urgency.

All true and I think poch could do with a mo salah / Sadio Mane / Leroy Sane type player as I don't think we really have a player that runs with pace, posing that directness.

In this system with Dembele looking to be gone, why can't Eriksen play the David Silva role, accommodate for the sort of player we need to play similar to Emirates Marketing Project.

Failing that look to start Lucas, he has done well during his cameos.

Bale could be perfect if the deal could be done and most importantly his body is not crocked. However there is plenty of players that fit the bill.

I like Leon Bailey also. I'm sure others on this forum know more players that are more than capable.

Personally I think Ryan sessegnon is ours and he really could go on to fill that gap also.

 

[parklane1]

All true and I think poch could do with a mo Salad / Sadio Mane / Leroy Sane type player as I don't think we really have a player that runs with pace, posing that directness.

In this system with Dembele looking to be gone, why can't Eriksen play the David Silva role, accommodate for the sort of player we need to play similar to Emirates Marketing Project.

Failing that look to start Lucas, he has done well during his cameos.

Bale could be perfect if the deal could be done and most importantly his body is not crocked. However there is plenty of players that fit the bill.

I like Leon Bailey also. I'm sure others on this forum know more players that are more than capable.

Personally I think Ryan sessegnon is ours and he really could go on to fill that gap also.

I do agree with that, i was hoping Moura would do that for us and that may happen next season. We do lack that drive forward type of player ( like those you mentioned) and we are becoming a little too predictable against teams that drop deep and stay solid.

As you know i think Eriksen is our best player and is still young ' (26?) so i believe he will become a better player and could do just that. Not sure about Bale if i was honest, for me his greatest strength was his pace and he may have lost that with he injuries he has had over the last couple of seasons. I watched a Madrid game the other night and he played out wide and in all honesty he looked poor.

As for Sessegnon you could be right but i still think he may take a couple of seasons for him to develop ( a bit like Bale did when he first came). I know a lot of fans would like to see Zaha here but i am not convinced about him at all.

 

[RunTMC]

All true and I think poch could do with a mo Salad / Sadio Mane / Leroy Sane type player as I don't think we really have a player that runs with pace, posing that directness.

We do have Son and Moura. Both pacy, direct and like to take people on.

I too think we should get another player like this. But someone that can also cover for Kane

 

[metalgear]

waiting to see if the increase in sponsorhip and gate fees translate to on the pitch.
i am sure levy has got poch and the boys on some loyalty bonus to stay on and start a new era at the new WHL
i am sure these guys will see some pay raises, hopefull puts us much closer to top 4 average

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I hope you’re right but you can never say things like that with certainty and Poch has made some ambiguous noises over the last few weeks. You don’t know whats going on behind the scenes.

He did say around Christmas that we were going to be competing with the big boys on wages and transfers whereas recently he’s been saying little much will change. Has Levy moved the goalposts?

People also look at the job he’s done purely in terms of results and the players he has. It’s not that simple. He has had to deal with the Toby situation this year and Rose’s big mouth. If those two are unhappy with the wages situation, you can bet others are too but are dealing with it behind closed doors. For Poch to be able to navigate through that and through the Wembley factor is a quite incredible achievement and I’m surprised to see some people play it down.

I really hope you’re right and he stays. He ain’t perfect but he’s far and away the closest to perfect that we’ve had in my 35 years supporting Tottenham.

Put it this way. Whatever benefits financially that would be derived from the new stadium will have been planned for and understood years ago. There is no sudden realisation that if we thought we could pay more wages, we suddenly can’t anymore. Whatever benefit to our strategy the stadium was going to bring, it hasn’t suddenly changed. Do you agree?

In that instance, whatever Poch said a few months back is still probably going to be the case. It is going to put us up a level, otherwise there is no point in building it. But, clubs are also always towing the fine line between positive PR for their fans, and managing expectations as a method of continuous negotiation with other clubs and for contracts with our own. So I’m pretty sure Poch talking down how much more money we will have is to start making the point to agents and clubs that we won’t just be throwing money around. Basically we don’t want anyone thinking we will suddenly pay over the odds. And in any case I think Poch was talking transfer fees (where we won’t suddenly have Man United money) and not wages (where due to our discipline in all of the Levy years, we should be able to start realising the benefit of increasing the wage budget immediately).

But clubs do this management of expectations as it comes to finances. There were quotes when the new CEO went into West Brom a few months back. He said he had heard West Brom were dealing with a really tough cash flow situation and thought it was just a negotiation tactic that they had established and used, but once he got to see the books he couldn’t believe how bad it actually was. But the point was, clubs are known to talk down the realities of their financial situation to get better deals. Some, like United, flaunt the fact that they have loads of commercial income as like a perpetuation of their brand as a super club, but most others try and talk it down.

I’m pretty sure Poch was talking it up to give the fans something to be excited about, but as the transfer window approaches, probably in accordance with Levy he has been asked to downplay it. I don’t think Levy had suddenly changed the goalposts - as I said, the strategy of getting the stadium and the benefits derived from it would have been in place years ago, they aren’t just going to change in the final months and in any case, Poch and Levy are joined at the hip on strategy.

Ipso facto, he’s staying. Don’t worry about it.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I was thinking earlier that it might be worth going back and looking at what he said in his last half season at Southampton and see if there any similarities.

I think that he is just being evasive and that is his normal interview style. He doesn't like to be drawn on and answer.

I think for Poch being honest and operating with integrity is important, and he would hate for people to say he’s a liar if for some reason he did leave. But Kane is also using the exact same evasion tactic...

I really think people are worrying over nothing. Poch has said he wants to stay here for 15 years and Kane loves the club. They are both about to be offered fat new contracts and in the case of Poch, he represents his coaching staff effectively as their agent too. He obviously has loyalty to the club and is staying, but he owes it to the guys he works with to get them the best deal possible. It’s smart to let a few stories bubble up that he could leave while sending mixed messages now the season is over, because it establishes his worth to Levy and gives him the best chance of getting a great deal.

He really isn’t going anywhere and I’m actually baffled people could think otherwise. He has just gone through the hardest yards he will have to go through with this club and his job is about to become so much better. His comments for me are a combination of contract negotiation, frustration at a narrative that he hasn’t achieved much this season (‘maybe I’ll bugger off then and you can see how well Spurs do without me’) and to keep the players on their toes that he will protect them always but if they don’t perform for him he can always move on, which he has admitted to doing.

He isn’t leaving though. 100% not leaving this summer. He isn’t ready for the Madrid job - I think he needs to prove with us he can manage established egos with bigger budgets before he goes there - and if he does do well with us hopefully the gap to Madrid won’t be as big as it is now. PSG would bore him. Argentina is too early in his career. He isn’t going anywhere.

 

[harr1984]

I was thinking earlier that it might be worth going back and looking at what he said in his last half season at Southampton and see if there any similarities.

I think that he is just being evasive and that is his normal interview style. He doesn't like to be drawn on and answer.

Yeah maybe, I hope you’re right anyway...

 

[milo]

I think for Poch being honest and operating with integrity is important, and he would hate for people to say he’s a liar if for some reason he did leave. But Kane is also using the exact same evasion tactic...

I really think people are worrying over nothing. Poch has said he wants to stay here for 15 years and Kane loves the club. They are both about to be offered fat new contracts and in the case of Poch, he represents his coaching staff effectively as their agent too. He obviously has loyalty to the club and is staying, but he owes it to the guys he works with to get them the best deal possible. It’s smart to let a few stories bubble up that he could leave while sending mixed messages now the season is over, because it establishes his worth to Levy and gives him the best chance of getting a great deal.

He really isn’t going anywhere and I’m actually baffled people could think otherwise. He has just gone through the hardest yards he will have to go through with this club and his job is about to become so much better. His comments for me are a combination of contract negotiation, frustration at a narrative that he hasn’t achieved much this season (‘maybe I’ll bugger off then and you can see how well Spurs do without me’) and to keep the players on their toes that he will protect them always but if they don’t perform for him he can always move on, which he has admitted to doing.

He isn’t leaving though. 400% not leaving this summer. He isn’t ready for the Madrid job - I think he needs to prove with us he can manage established egos with bigger budgets before he goes there - and if he does do well with us hopefully the gap to Madrid won’t be as big as it is now. PSG would bore him. Argentina is too early in his career. He isn’t going anywhere.

I don't think he's going anywhere either. I also think that the Real Madrid job is not right for him at any stage in his career. A job like that would not give him space for what he is best at.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Put it this way. Whatever benefits financially that would be derived from the new stadium will have been planned for and understood years ago. There is no sudden realisation that if we thought we could pay more wages, we suddenly can’t anymore. Whatever benefit to our strategy the stadium was going to bring, it hasn’t suddenly changed. Do you agree?

In that instance, whatever Poch said a few months back is still probably going to be the case. It is going to put us up a level, otherwise there is no point in building it. But, clubs are also always towing the fine line between positive PR for their fans, and managing expectations as a method of continuous negotiation with other clubs and for contracts with our own. So I’m pretty sure Poch talking down how much more money we will have is to start making the point to agents and clubs that we won’t just be throwing money around. Basically we don’t want anyone thinking we will suddenly pay over the odds. And in any case I think Poch was talking transfer fees (where we won’t suddenly have Man United money) and not wages (where due to our discipline in all of the Levy years, we should be able to start realising the benefit of increasing the wage budget immediately).

But clubs do this management of expectations as it comes to finances. There were quotes when the new CEO went into West Brom a few months back. He said he had heard West Brom were dealing with a really tough cash flow situation and thought it was just a negotiation tactic that they had established and used, but once he got to see the books he couldn’t believe how bad it actually was. But the point was, clubs are known to talk down the realities of their financial situation to get better deals. Some, like United, flaunt the fact that they have loads of commercial income as like a perpetuation of their brand as a super club, but most others try and talk it down.

I’m pretty sure Poch was talking it up to give the fans something to be excited about, but as the transfer window approaches, probably in accordance with Levy he has been asked to downplay it. I don’t think Levy had suddenly changed the goalposts - as I said, the strategy of getting the stadium and the benefits derived from it would have been in place years ago, they aren’t just going to change in the final months and in any case, Poch and Levy are joined at the hip on strategy.

Ipso facto, he’s staying. Don’t worry about it.

Haven’t the stadium costs spiralled over the last few months? Could that have moved the goalposts?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Haven’t the stadium costs spiralled over the last few months? Could that have moved the goalposts?

Last few months? I doubt it. We’ve been hearing they increased for a couple of years now, but anything that has happened in the last few months won’t be a sudden shock to seriously affect our strategy.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I don't think he's going anywhere either. I also think that the Real Madrid job is not right for him at any stage in his career. A job like that would not give him space for what he is best at.

He’s adaptable and I wouldn’t be surprised if he fancied a crack at it at some point. But it would be years away. He’s going to have to manage bigger egos and bigger budgets with us now, so how he adapts to that will be an interesting case. He’s already alluded to the different ways he treats someone like Dele for example because he’s more established now, but it will be interesting to see if he can operate in a different environment. I think he’d be capable, but as I said he’s years away from Madrid even trusting him with the job if they ever do.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Last few months? I doubt it. We’ve been hearing they increased for a couple of years now, but anything that has happened in the last few months won’t be a sudden shock to seriously affect our strategy.

We started at £400m, then revised upwards to £750m and then £850m with the possibility of it going to a billion. The financial results were announced in April. It’s not inconceivable that in December Poch was working on the basis of an extra £100m to £200m to work with and Levys come back this year and said “sorry buddy, I’ve to find an extra couple of hundred million so your squad budget is being cut.”

I don’t believe Poch said what he said in December for PR reasons because fans and media remember and he doesn’t want to be painted as a liar.

Fact is, neither of us know but with the information that’s in the public domain, either version of events could be conceivably accurate. None of us know.

For the record, I do think and hope he’ll be here next year but I’m not sure I’d bet the mortgage on it. At this point I’d just bet the kids’ college fund on it...

 

[BrainOfLevy]

We started at £400m, then revised upwards to £750m and then £850m with the possibility of it going to a billion. The financial results were announced in April. It’s not inconceivable that in December Poch was working on the basis of an extra £100m to £200m to work with and Levys come back this year and said “sorry buddy, I’ve to find an extra couple of hundred million so your squad budget is being cut.”

I don’t believe Poch said what he said in December for PR reasons because fans and media remember and he doesn’t want to be painted as a liar.

Fact is, neither of us know but with the information that’s in the public domain, either version of events could be conceivably accurate. None of us know.

For the record, I do think and hope he’ll be here next year but I’m not sure I’d bet the mortgage on it. At this point I’d just bet the kids’ college fund on it...

I’ve just done a quick Google and one of first links I can find is a story from March 2017 about rising stadium costs. If Poch was talking in Nov / Dec 2017 about how it would put us on a different level, it hasn’t suddenly changed in 5 months. Whatever money we had to spend this coming season isn’t really relevant here. Levy has always ran the club based on its predictable revenue as it relates to wages. We will have more in the new stadium and will increase wages as a result. Finding more money to finance the build - something that would have happened years ago - doesn’t come into it. The financial rules we live under have never been about cash we have in the bank right now, it’s about living sustainably and the whole reason we build the stadium is so our sustainable level is higher.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mi...ottenham-reveal-new-stadium-costs-9983339.amp

There is a weird amount of pessimism among Spurs fans right now that I really don’t understand. We’ve had some amazing moments this season and surely given where we are moving you’d think this would be one of the most optimistic times in our club’s history.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I’ve just done a quick Google and one of first links I can find is a story from March 2017 about rising stadium costs. If Poch was talking in Nov / Dec 2017 about how it would put us on a different level, it hasn’t suddenly changed in 5 months. Whatever money we had to spend this coming season isn’t really relevant here. Levy has always ran the club based on its predictable revenue as it relates to wages. We will have more in the new stadium and will increase wages as a result. Finding more money to finance the build - something that would have happened years ago - doesn’t come into it. The financial rules we live under have never been about cash we have in the bank right now, it’s about living sustainably and the whole reason we build the stadium is so our sustainable level is higher.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mi...ottenham-reveal-new-stadium-costs-9983339.amp

There is a weird amount of pessimism among Spurs fans right now that I really don’t understand. We’ve had some amazing moments this season and surely given where we are moving you’d think this would be one of the most optimistic times in our club’s history.

Of course there is optimism but there is also a bit of concern around some of the noises Poch has made recently about his own position. You also can’t deny that in December he said we’d be playing with the big boys and a few weeks ago said that nothing will change.

If Levy has come and cut his transfer budget, which is not beyond the realms of possibility, Poch may have thought “fudge me, I’ve been managing this situation for three years, now I have Toby and Rose kicking up and I’ll have to do it for another year. All the while, the fans are appreciating me less because expectation is growing. Can I be arsed coz Paris is a nice city?”

Like I say, I reckon he’ll be here but the man has a very tough job and it’s not all rosy.

 

[mudshark]

Crowd need to show the love tomorrow, whatever the result.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Of course there is optimism but there is also a bit of concern around some of the noises Poch has made recently about his own position. You also can’t deny that in December he said we’d be playing with the big boys and a few weeks ago said that nothing will change.

If Levy has come and cut his transfer budget, which is not beyond the realms of possibility, Poch may have thought “fudge me, I’ve been managing this situation for three years, now I have Toby and Rose kicking up and I’ll have to do it for another year. All the while, the fans are appreciating me less because expectation is growing. Can I be arsed coz Paris is a nice city?”

Like I say, I reckon he’ll be here but the man has a very tough job and it’s not all rosy.

Maybe he’s done exactly what he intended to do then, after the semi final talking about ‘me or another’. Really get Spurs fans bricking themselves and appreciating what they have with him, terrified that he would actually go. Because there does seem to have been some widespread fear that he would actually, seriously leave right when his job is about to get more interesting than it’s ever been.

Look, I’ll just say this. I really don’t think our transfer budget has been cut significantly in the last few months by stadium costs, because that’s just not how it works, and Poch and Levy are joined at the hip on strategy for the club. We were never going to suddenly have a Man United style transfer budget, but we will start getting closer in terms of a wage budget.

I personally don’t ever listen to a press conference and think that the person speaking means exactly what they say. The whole point of media training is that you use the press to either your advantage, or you get out of it by saying nothing interesting at all. Poch is pretty damn good at the latter, and has way improved at the former, in terms of needling other managers. There is always some other motive, especially with big issues like matters of finances and the clubs’ direction. The last thing he is going to do is reveal our plans to the world, but since it’s an obligation, they use the press however they can.

 

[thfcsteff]

I do agree with that, i was hoping Moura would do that for us and that may happen next season. We do lack that drive forward type of player ( like those you mentioned) and we are becoming a little too predictable against teams that drop deep and stay solid.

As you know i think Eriksen is our best player and is still young ' (26?) so i believe he will become a better player and could do just that. Not sure about Bale if i was honest, for me his greatest strength was his pace and he may have lost that with he injuries he has had over the last couple of seasons. I watched a Madrid game the other night and he played out wide and in all honesty he looked poor.

As for Sessegnon you could be right but i still think he may take a couple of seasons for him to develop ( a bit like Bale did when he first came). I know a lot of fans would like to see Zaha here but i am not convinced about him at all.

I wonder if there isn’t a thought that Bale could also be used as a central striker? He still has enough pace to be electric on a through ball from Eriksen. I think our fluid 4 could cause havoc with him as an option/switching positions during the game. Remember that some of the best crosses all season were from Hazza when he went wide(r)...


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