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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Timing is everything as they say. Having an outstanding group players like Beckham, Butt, Giggs, Neville, Neville and Paul Scholes in your academy was a huge bit of good fortune. They were the backbone of SAF achievements and being the first or second richest club in the world didn't do him any harm.
Look who he took from us!
 
StephenH said:
Timing is everything as they say. Having an outstanding group players like Beckham, Butt, Giggs, Neville, Neville and Paul Scholes in your academy was a huge bit of good fortune. They were the backbone of SAF achievements and being the first or second richest club in the world didn't do him any harm.
Look who he took from us!
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He identified good players and developed them in to great players and a team. How is it different to Wenger going in at Arsenal and immediately buying Viera, Anelka, Petit, then a couple of years later Henry, Overmars, etc.? Wenger knew the French academy and mined it. Once that inside knowledge had gone and the players were older / moved on, so did Arsenal’s competitiveness. Fergie was able to continually rebuild sides, Wenger could “only” manage one.

Arsenal spent an absolute fortune as well on transfers and wages, there wasn’t that much of a difference between there’s and Utds spending back in the day (Utd would have spent more but not that much more).
 
How many of the "invincibles" were the original team Wenger inherited? I think he did a decent job of replacing most of the team he inherited, although the constants were Vieira and Bergkamp.

But there is no question he has failed to adapt to the changes in the game, whereas Fergie was able to rebuild his team several times, albeit with the biggest budget.
 
jts1882 said:
How many of the "invincibles" were the original team Wenger inherited? I think he did a decent job of replacing most of the team he inherited, although the constants were Vieira and Bergkamp.

But there is no question he has failed to adapt to the changes in the game, whereas Fergie was able to rebuild his team several times, albeit with the biggest budget.
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I read that he never won a title once the the last of the defense he inherited retired - haven't checked it myself tbf so happy to be proven wromg
 
That reflects better on him than how it was framed when i read whatever it was that i had read about him tbf
 
I think he made two teams.

Theone he inherited with the addition of Anelka/Petit and Vieira, then the second with Henry and the above defence.

Two top teams, no question.

Since when he just hasnt managed to come close again.

Fergie made what? 5? 6? different sides? All with medals.

And as I say, the team he won his last title with was poor - probably would be struggling to make europa league in this league (Bebe was in the squad!)
 
Maybe four: early-mid 90s, ca 1999, around horse-face, and the last five years.

billyiddo said:
That reflects better on him than how it was framed when i read whatever it was that i had read about him tbf
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I like it that way. It's always good to have facts for discussion with arsenal fans, Although currently it is more fun to defend Wenger.

So the verdict on Wenger if you want to be critical was he never won the title without Bergkamp, Vieira and any of the defence he inherited. I think you can add Parlour to that list.
 
jts1882 said:
Maybe four: early-mid 90s, ca 1999, around horse-face, and the last five years.



I like it that way. It's always good to have facts for discussion with arsenal fans, Although currently it is more fun to defend Wenger.

So the verdict on Wenger if you want to be critical was he never won the title without Bergkamp, Vieira and any of the defence he inherited. I think you can add Parlour to that list.
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David Dein leaving too i believe - that's the one a lot of them don't like
 
billyiddo said:
David Dein leaving too i believe - that's the one a lot of them don't like
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David Dein was a huge loss for Wenger. Both Wenger and Fergie were managers who liked control over all aspects of the club, but they both had good working relationships with directors who understood enough about football to make a good relationship. After Fergie with Kenyon and Gill, United have been left to rebuild with Woodward. Emirates Marketing Project also have set themselves up with great support for Pep.
 
jts1882 said:
David Dein was a huge loss for Wenger. Both Wenger and Fergie were managers who liked control over all aspects of the club, but they both had good working relationships with directors who understood enough about football to make a good relationship. After Fergie with Kenyon and Gill, United have been left to rebuild with Woodward. Emirates Marketing Project also have set themselves up with great support for Pep.
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And the Levy/Poch relationship is looking like a match made in heaven.
 
Hootnow said:
That has nothing to do with what I said.

If GHod forbid, we arrive at 2023 (or even 2024) to take us to 10 years of Poch without a trophy, would you say we have a winning mentality? And let's say we've finished 2nd every single one of those seasons?

And it your answer is yes, we would have q winning mentality, is there literally any other sport where you could claim to have a winning mentality without winning anything? Tennis, rugby, hockey, sprinting, whatever?
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If clubs with infinitely more resources than us win it all these years, yet we manage to finish consistently second above other clubs with also infinitely more resources than us, then yes, I would say that shows a winning mentality.

But that all depends on how you define "winning mentality." What is is it? Does it even exist, or is it just something that's thrown about after the fact with no real definition? I personally don't think it exists. What does exist, however, is self-belief, striving to get better, and never-say-die attitude. You roll all these together and, if you have the quality too, should expect to win every game. Of course you will not win every game, but it won't be because you lack these attributes. And if it so happens that someone else bests you, it doesn't mean you lose all these attributes all of a sudden.

Now if you want to continue arguing about "winning mentality" go ahead. But it's like arguing about what is happiness or what is the best color. Totally pointless and will never get agreement from everyone.
 
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alekaras said:
If clubs with infinitely more resources than us win it all these years, yet we manage to finish consistently second above other clubs with also infinitely more resources than us, then yes, I would say that shows a winning mentality.

But that all depends on how you define "winning mentality." What is is it? Does it even exist, or is it just something that's thrown about after the fact with no real definition? I personally don't think it exists. What does exist, however, is self-belief, striving to get better, and never-say-die attitude. You roll all these together and, if you have the quality too, should expect to win every game. Of course you will not win every game and it won't be because you lack these attributes. And if it so happens that someone else bests you, it doesn't mean you lose all these attributes all of a sudden.

Now if you want to continue arguing about "winning mentality" go ahead. But it's like arguing about what is happiness or what is the best color. Totally pointless and will never get agreement from everyone.
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Lilywhite
 
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