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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

harr1984 said:
I don't think he would have been sacked regardless. Guardiola has a unique brand of football that isn't necessarily possible to convey in one season and I think their board recognise that. Look at Poch, I don't think we was properly playing as he demanded in his first season.
Next season is the acid test for him, and they still came third in the league - it wasn't exactly disastrous. And id be very worried about them next season, their forwards look ridiculously dangerous and if he adds a couple of defenders which is expected they could well be favourites.....
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Guardiola did himself admit that if he'd been at a big club, instead of City, he would have been sacked.

Both Guardiola and Klopp have stated that their aim for next season is to add more attackers/goals to their sides, which should be good news if they continue to ignore their leaky defences.
 
Jordinho said:
Guardiola did himself admit that if he'd been at a big club, instead of City, he would have been sacked.

Both Guardiola and Klopp have stated that their aim for next season is to add more attackers/goals to their sides, which should be good news if they continue to ignore their leaky defences.
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They might well bolster their attacks, but I don't believe either of them are stupid enough not to be looking at defensive reinforcements. We shall see....
 
harr1984 said:
My boss made the argument at work that Man U would have had a better season than us if they win the Europa League on top of the League Cup and its hard to disagree really. Of course its great what Poch is doing on relatively limited resources, but ultimately it is about winning trophies.....
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but BBC rating was referring only to EPL results...
 
Hidden said:
but BBC rating was referring only to EPL results...
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Its all relative though. Getting to the final of two cup runs is going to impact your league form. You even referenced Chelsea not being in Europe as acting in their favour, we ourselves fell at the first hurdle in both the CL and the Europa League.....
 
harr1984 said:
My boss made the argument at work that Man U would have had a better season than us if they win the Europa League on top of the League Cup and its hard to disagree really. Of course its great what Poch is doing on relatively limited resources, but ultimately it is about winning trophies.....
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As much as i hate Utd more then any team i would have to agree with you.
 
parklane1 said:
As much as i hate Utd more then any team i would have to agree with you.
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I don't, you have to define success, I look at it this way

- Is a cup (other than CL) any measurement of club progress/success in the modern game?
- Is league position (specifically top 4), not a more accurate measurement of elite level clubs?

Would it be good fun for the fans to have a cup final and the bragging rights of a Cup? = sure, we would all love it.
Was Jose/Conte/Wenger/Poch/Klopp/Pep's targets domestic cup or league position at beginning of season = no question it was league position.

League position guarantees money, tv, better promotion, attraction of CL football, etc. Cups are fleeting (if fun) moments in the sun that mean nothing (list off the 3 or 4 one off's in last 5 years who won domestics cups and are where today?)

Jose & Wenger are smart, they have used the cups as PR to buy them more time recently, but they know that isn't success. United didn't spend a billion dollars to buy a domestic cup or even Europa, just like Pool over the last 8 years and Scum next year, the desperation to get back into the top (league position) is obvious, failure to do so could be critical to long term for club.

Do I agree with it? no, I wish cups meant more, but if we care about where Spurs will be in 5-10 years, then 2nd is greater success than cups (other than CL)
 
Raziel said:
I don't, you have to define success, I look at it this way

- Is a cup (other than CL) any measurement of club progress/success in the modern game?
- Is league position (specifically top 4), not a more accurate measurement of elite level clubs?

Would it be good fun for the fans to have a cup final and the bragging rights of a Cup? = sure, we would all love it.
Was Jose/Conte/Wenger/Poch/Klopp/Pep's targets domestic cup or league position at beginning of season = no question it was league position.

League position guarantees money, tv, better promotion, attraction of CL football, etc. Cups are fleeting (if fun) moments in the sun that mean nothing (list off the 3 or 4 one off's in last 5 years who won domestics cups and are where today?)

Jose & Wenger are smart, they have used the cups as PR to buy them more time recently, but they know that isn't success. United didn't spend a billion dollars to buy a domestic cup or even Europa, just like Pool over the last 8 years and Scum next year, the desperation to get back into the top (league position) is obvious, failure to do so could be critical to long term for club.

Do I agree with it? no, I wish cups meant more, but if we care about where Spurs will be in 5-10 years, then 2nd is greater success than cups (other than CL)
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Sorry but I'm going to challenge this. There was a thread before start of season where a lot of fans ageeed winning a trophy and good league placing would be a great season. There are different measures of success but the best is trophies,it's small time mentality to suggest otherwise. You honestly believe Spurs fans wouldn't swap winning the League Cup and Europa League for our second place finish?! All we have achieved is CL qualification which Man U would get if they win tonight anyway.....
 
harr1984 said:
Sorry but I'm going to challenge this. There was a thread before start of season where a lot of fans ageeed winning a trophy and good league placing would be a great season. There are different measures of success but the best is trophies,it's small time mentality to suggest otherwise. You honestly believe Spurs fans wouldn't swap winning the League Cup and Europa League for our second place finish?! All we have achieved is CL qualification which Man U would get if they win tonight anyway.....
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ordinarily i would agree but this was our best league season since 63? and with a points total of 86 it's a signal that we are able to challenge for league titles going forward, had we finished 6th and won the league cup/Europa League it wouldn't give us the same outlook. i think were you to trade seasons with United then what you would be doing is trading off a great future just for two trophies, which for this team would be a very bad trade...
 
harr1984 said:
Its all relative though. Getting to the final of two cup runs is going to impact your league form. You even referenced Chelsea not being in Europe as acting in their favour, we ourselves fell at the first hurdle in both the CL and the Europa League.....
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Firstly with the money spent by Utd they should be able to compete on multiple fronts. They should certainly be in with a very good shout of winning the league cup which is probably the easiest cup to win simply because the top teams tend to play weakened sides in it.

Secondly the Europa league only became a priority for Utd because they were underperforming in the league. I am sure most of those connected with utd would rather have been competing for the title with an exiting young team than have to rely on qualification into the Champions League through the Europe's B tournament.

I would doubt many observers would regard this season as a success for Utd when they finished 6th in the league because of what they have achieved in the past and spent this season. Not forgetting that LVG was sacked the day after winning the FA cup.

The top clubs measure themselves by a different metric to success starved Tottenham. Btw I don't agree that it is small time for a club like Spurs or any club outside the elite big spenders to celebrate achieving 86 points and a second place finish.
 
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Raziel said:
I don't, you have to define success, I look at it this way

- Is a cup (other than CL) any measurement of club progress/success in the modern game?
- Is league position (specifically top 4), not a more accurate measurement of elite level clubs?

Would it be good fun for the fans to have a cup final and the bragging rights of a Cup? = sure, we would all love it.
Was Jose/Conte/Wenger/Poch/Klopp/Pep's targets domestic cup or league position at beginning of season = no question it was league position.

League position guarantees money, tv, better promotion, attraction of CL football, etc. Cups are fleeting (if fun) moments in the sun that mean nothing (list off the 3 or 4 one off's in last 5 years who won domestics cups and are where today?)

Jose & Wenger are smart, they have used the cups as PR to buy them more time recently, but they know that isn't success. United didn't spend a billion dollars to buy a domestic cup or even Europa, just like Pool over the last 8 years and Scum next year, the desperation to get back into the top (league position) is obvious, failure to do so could be critical to long term for club.

Do I agree with it? no, I wish cups meant more, but if we care about where Spurs will be in 5-10 years, then 2nd is greater success than cups (other than CL)
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Well Stop! Hammer time and you have expressed yours well, however i do not agree and could write all the reasons i do not but we would still not agree.
 
billyiddo said:
ordinarily i would agree but this was our best league season since 63? and with a points total of 86 it's a signal that we are able to challenge for league titles going forward, had we finished 6th and won the league cup/Europa League it wouldn't give us the same outlook. i think were you to trade seasons with United then what you would be doing is trading off a great future just for two trophies, which for this team would be a very bad trade...
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Would it be trading off our future? Mourinho always starts off winning a trophy, which breeds that winning mentality throughout his squad to deliver future trophies. We have a winning mentality to an extent, but in the big games we still flatter to deceive more often than not. I'm not dismissing what has been a great season in the league, but you are remembered for winning trophies, not for achieving second place with the sixth highest wage bill etc....
 
harr1984 said:
Would it be trading off our future? Mourinho always starts off winning a trophy, which breeds that winning mentality throughout his squad to deliver future trophies. We have a winning mentality to an extent, but in the big games we still flatter to deceive more often than not. I'm not dismissing what has been a great season in the league, but you are remembered for winning trophies, not for achieving second place with the sixth highest wage bill etc....
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yes it would be imo - winning trophies is a by-product of building a title challenging/winning side - not the other way around.

Unless United improve their squad dramatically over the summer they wont be anywhere near the title, League Cup/Europa League winners or not
 
harr1984 said:
Would it be trading off our future? Mourinho always starts off winning a trophy, which breeds that winning mentality throughout his squad to deliver future trophies. We have a winning mentality to an extent, but in the big games we still flatter to deceive more often than not. I'm not dismissing what has been a great season in the league, but you are remembered for winning trophies, not for achieving second place with the sixth highest wage bill etc....
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I think this "breeding a winning mentality" thing is a myth. How many clubs outside the elite clubs follow up winning a trophy with further success? Having a bottomless pit of money is a better indicator of future success and Jose tends to manage those teams. For a club like Spurs who don't you have to build up incrementally and the most important place to do that is the league; a high league placing means more money to spend on better players and is a better marker for consistency.
 
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billyiddo said:
yes it would be imo - winning trophies is a by-product of building a title challenging/winning side - not the other way around.

Unless United improve their squad dramatically over the summer they wont be anywhere near the title, League Cup/Europa League winners or not
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And yet both Chelski and City first trophies they won after the money came in were Cups.
 
billyiddo said:
It doesn't prove anything - cups are easier to win than the league and winning one before the other doesn't mean winning the first led to the second
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Well you answered your own question then, winning breeds a winning mentality and (before someone comes in and mentions the likes of Wigan etc) that is because they were not strong teams, we are and we should be going all out to win whatever we can.
 
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